Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 419: Massacre Discussion Thread

I didn't understand the meaning of those two Ventress moments with her two dying friends. Are we supposed to care that they're dying?

 

I thought they were the two who helped Ventress attack Dooku in Nightsisters?

They were obviously not developed enough but I think it was just to show us that Ventress wasn't this cold prick and actually cared for these sisters. It would of been nice to develop those two a bit though.

 

What was that?

One Commando Droid calling in a Turbolaser strike could have ended all of Talzin's Nightsisters, instead we get this expanded conflict.

So Asajj is a true Nightsister now, forgetting the ways of the Sith. You know except for using the Force and the lightsaber dueling that is.

The second they introduced "Keris" I knew she'd be fodder to motivate Ventress.

This episode was bizarre at best. There was no one to root for, no one to care about. The attempts to turn Ventress into a sympathetic character in minutes, after years of having her as a heartless villian, are a complete failure.

And way to punk Dooku. I guess being a Dark Lord of the Sith doesn't make him all the powerful after all.

And all the Voodoo stuff... how inovative.

At least this Episode does show Grievous as something of a tactician. He implies that he allowed Ventress to reach him and the way the battle turned once he took control makes me believe him. Of course having Ventress cut him down tempers my enthusiam a great deal.

I'm going to enter this into my own personal continuity as AU

 

That's the thing about it that pretty much took away that "drama," they weren't developed. I really didn't care for either one and they seemed like nameless (I think the first girl was named by Ventress) redshirts.

I didn't understand the sudden character shift of Ventress or the attempt to make the Nightsisters seem like the heroes while the CIS are the villains. Having not seen the last two episodes of the Randy Savage arc, and I'm not sure how much magic she displayed in those two episode, I was surprised to see all this random crazy magic Talzin displayed and the voodoo she conducted. TCW CIS can be crap and the Nightsisters and their overusage of magic made me turn away from them, so it was pretty much an episode that I couldn't get into. Grievous's sudden urge to kill seemed out of character for his TCW self. Did we see that old man/lady before that Talzin talked to? It seemed odd why he would go to her instead of Talzin, who stood there. Wasn't his mission to kill Talzin? He seemed to fail at that. I can't say that she pulled an Obi-Wan or she died because of all the magic she displayed in the episode. It seemed like she escaped at best.

"The second they introduced "Keris" I knew she'd be fodder to motivate Ventress."
I guess that was girl #1.

 

What a singularly depressing episode. I mean...I guess I knew what was coming in an academic sense...but to watch it...I feel broken inside right now. I cried after Kalifa died at the end of last season. I cried again tonight. I just get so wrapped up in the characters in some many different series and movies, I suppose...that it hurts to lose someone you came to care about, even if you only know them for a few minutes.

it just seems that in those few minutes, those characters that spark that initial interest grow on me so fast it's as though I've known them all my life.

It's the eyes perhaps, looking into their eyes...deep into their eyes...wondering about their thoughts, and feelings, what they dreamed about at night, who they love, who they hate...needing, hungering to know who they are, what drives, them what motivates them, what frightens them, what saddens them...that need to know every detail about them, so much so that it seems as though they're a part of me. Then they die.

I don't know if or when I'll watch this episode again. Not for any reason of quality, but just at the moment...it's painful.

Peace to you, sisters of the night.

I'm sorry.

 

You basically put what I was thinking into words. With that said I'd give this episode either a 6/10 or a 7/10

 

Good episode

-Grievous actually came off pretty well.....aside from losing another hand.
-Nice to see the dignified Count not so dignified.
-The undead looked like a homage to the Army of the Dead from Return of the King......creepy looking bastards they were.
-So what happened to Talzin, did she become a spirit or is she still among the living? I hope they get back to her, very interesting character.

Overall, a fun episode that has watchable value.

8/10

 

I would agree on all sorts of points. But I have to sharply disagree here. I've tried to pick up this show several times over the years, and every time it's had all the appeal of hot garbage. I've found myself unable to root for even my favorite characters in other media. The one exception has been this new, relatively "sympathetic" arc for Ventress. Maybe it's because I haven't followed regularly and only know her nominally as a villain, but this has been the only plot line or character in this series that has ever held my interest at all.

 

Maybe TCW viewers aren't EU fans but this is basically what Sith do, they vie for power & wipe each other out. This is really the first Sith War we've had onscreen. I think it was awesome! I would've preferred to have it in the last season & not lose these characters so quickly, but it's exactly as advertised: Massacre.

I wonder what everyone was expecting...???

 

I found it funny that when Talzin started torturing Dooku the droids near him just stood there like nothing was wrong.

 

Obviously like us, they knew he wasn't going to die.

 

How the heck were they supposed to know some weird demented witch/magic wielder halfway across the galaxy was messing with a voodoo version of him?

 

They could've gotten a medic droid.

 

Ugh, that was so bad.

 

Sorry

 

The writer of this episode needs to apologize.

 

Watching the end again: was Mother Talzin ever flesh and blood?
Interesting...

As for people complaining: if half this stuff had been in Episode I, you'd all still be jizzing over it.

 

True

Anyway weren't those orb looking things that were a part of the separatist fleet from the umbaran arc?

 

That would make no sense whatsoever.

 

I liked this episode, it's 100 times better than Shadow Warrior.

 

It was nice seeing super battle droids again. I can't even remember the last time we saw those guys

 

I'm not sure how to label this episode. It failed my expectations but I thought it was impressive on other accounts.
Pros:
-Return of Durd's mega-tank!(forgot the name)
-Zombies were actually really freaky!
-I like the shift on Ventress' character.
-No sign of Anakin, Obi-wan, Ahsoka, Yoda, Mace, Padme, Plo Koon, Jar-jar, the droid duo, etc.
-Despite their relatively unoriginal lore, the Nightsisters really had some major background expansion here.

Cons:
-@TCW team: Way to fail Grievous. His characterization in this show has now become clear and absolute. He's a moron. After this show, I hope Grievous is characterized differently from this idiot cyborg.
-So after Season 1.....Grievous can just walk into Dooku's presence, pay him respect, fight his personal conflict, and save his life?! This is one of the reasons I believe this show went downhill since Season 1.
-The new Nightsister-material in this episode was very short-lived....
-I'm on the side with everyone about the whole "zomg, why aren't the Magnaguards doing anything?!"
-Here is the biggest con: If Talzin can just go and do that Voodoo doll magic....then why didn't she just do it earlier? Maul's return just increased in pointlessness.
-WTF is with the Nightsister dancing?
-Why do the sisters sound like Ewoks?
-This is kinda picky but....where are Grievous and Dooku's capes? Where do these things go? They just drop'em, find them, and if all else fails...order another off of Amazon? If they aren't fighting, then why not wear one? Why have one if not wear one? I refuse to take "animation" as an excuse.

I'm giving this episode a 7/10. I'd make it worse but I was fairly entertained and that is what matters for me as a viewer.

Call me crazy, but I thought the best thing about this episode was the preview! Seriously, does anyone agree that the content for the next episode looks mad awesome?!

 

Agreed, the last time before tonight's episode was Citadel Rescue.

Edit Make that Shadow Warrior.

 

Dooku should not have killed Rish Loo! Should have kept him as a lackey, like Wormtongue or Renfield. Rish Loo and Talzin have such dramatic voices, their banter would be hilarious.

FWIW, I don't think Talzin is dead. She's a force of nature. (And I thought I saw more of her in the Maul trailer.) It was a shame to lose that elder woman, the one that summoned the zombies. (Daka? I haven't seen the spelling yet.) I liked when Talzin fought back, especially when she "spoke" to Dooku. The fact that she can hold her own against Dooku... What is it about evil ladies? <3 I sure felt sad for Ventress at the end.

 

Really?!? Where?