Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012.
Well, of course we will, just like we were in the last eleven episodes.
I don't know about you guys but how in the world can one not like this episode? I thought it was great. Loved the humor and banter between WAC and Gascon, and the droids were not too shabby. This really asked some deep seated questions about life you know. Is it a void? Is death really the only certaininty? These are pretty good deep stuff. I really enjoyed the two episodes of this arc and will stand by my thoughts on this season. The animation was spot on and probably the best I've seen so far. You know not everything has to have lasers, lightsabers, clones, separatists, or mandalorians you know. The first 11 episodes of season 5 are kicking complete arse. I thought that the last 11 episodes of season 3 and the entire 22 episodes of season 4 werre awesome, but this season they are not pulling any punches. This is why I kept telling everyone that the clone wars series when it is complete, will be probably the only show to have all these issues placed out. When you look at the clone wars movie along with the 99 episodes so far it is a very rich and detailed type of storytelling that not only have we not seen in star wars outside the movies, but from other franchises themselves. On another note, I still don't understand though how can people like season 1? I thought that not only was it horrible but had they kept going in that direction this show would have been cancelled by season 3. Who knows.
Because some people don't like using their brains?
I kid, I kid.
There is not life until you understand that there is death, so you can live your life to the fullest and no matter what, maintain your morals, so you may die gracefully.
Holy crap, this is like the anime Casshern Sins retold Star Wars style and kid friendly. This is some deep stuff. The droids are in a sense immortal. They don't fear death (unless they are battledroids apparently). Even R2 who seems unnerved by seeing the rusted out atromech's head at the crash site just can't seem to relate. Gascon goes bonkers after he runs out of water thinking he's going to die. The droids completely can't understand why. Infact WAC is pretty much saying he should just put himself out of his misery.
Despite this, WAC is the fortune cookie, he grew on me alot this episode. WAC is the real sun in the void. He maybe an obnoxious idiot but he is able to give hope to Gascon because he can't give up. He also helps Gascon to realize he has to think beyond his training to get out.
The desert, at first glance an endless, baron, dead wasteland that actually teams with the magic of life. Its just like deserts IRL. Its a wonderful metaphor. When Gascon gets out of the void inside himself he sees life in the desert and is taken to water. How awesome and deep is that? Its completely ironic that the droids insist they are more than astromechs or pilots despite all the iteration about their programming so there is the extra message that there is a time and place for programming, training, instinct, but in the end you gotta have the wisdom and knowledge to use it.
There is no way I can't make a comparison to Umbara. Droids are programmed but also are apparently thinkers. But this episode further drives home Rex's point Clones are not droids. The major difference between them and clones being that Clones are alive. They have the wisdom and knowledge to know how to use their training but still have the adaptability only something like a living human can possess. I'll be interested to see if Gregor adds anything to this lesson.
This episode also has killer animation. The ice comet scene at the beginning and the planets' surface really setup the surrealist look of this episode. The music was also the best so far. The scene with the space gallimimus was enhanced by the epic, uplifting score.
Then there were a couple homages that caught my eye. "Ruptured my gizzard?", Is that Owls of Ga'hoole? Is Filoni shouting out to his wife again? Then the scene where Gascon is climbing up to the observation deck of the crashed ship was scored very similarly to when Cody climbs up to free Marahute in Rescuers Down Under.
Total 10. I had to watch it twice to understand it. The first time I just saw goofiness which does stop this episode from being the depressing, soul wrecker its themes tend to be. Well done Brent Friedman, I never lost faith.
You know, the more I've thought about this episode, the more I've realized that it really did well what it was intended to do. It is suppose to be about "nothingness" and what that may or may not be. And I think that is why every writer - except Brent Friedman - backed away from the table when GL suggested this idea. It is a very difficult thing to write about "nothingness". I still do not think such a concept can go much further, because what would you have? - Void Part 2?
The polar opposite to this type of episode would be an endless space battle or endless lightsaber battle. And that would not go much further because how would you have a part 2 to endless space/lightsaber battle? It would become meaningless just like an endless void.
This episode is going to be polarizing because it was a bit over the top when Gascon was bonkers and I realize its difficult to see past that. Its understandable some people aren't going to want to put themselves through that torture twice. The second time around I watched more critically and was astounded.
The second time around I appreciated it a lot more, but Gascon was a bit over the top. There were a couple moments when his silence and eyes instead would have done wonders.
It really helps, IMO if you take a step back and look at why Gascon went bonkers even if it was over the top. Gascon may have just been really, really dramatic but I imagine he really was writhing with dehydration and heatstroke being an amphibian looking creature. He was reacting to either immanent fear of death or the fear of being sentenced to death by being trapped in the void with the droids who he didn't see as any help to him. I was more sympathetic to Gascon once I realized his point of view.
If I want the type of philosophical musing that some of you seem to think this episode offers, I think I'm better served by the likes of Albert Camus than the TCW writers.
I hate that argument. "You need to watch it again to 'get it'." Listen, if an episode makes a poor impression, I'm not going to go back and subject myself to it again. There's a difference between watching something again and appreciating details that would only make sense after a first viewing, and sitting down to watch something I hate in order to find a redeeming factor in it.
I'm only saying I watched it a 2nd time and it paid off for me. I said in practically the same breath, "Its understandable some people aren't going to want to put themselves through that torture twice." That's cool.
I agree with Zandalor. Seems like another viewing , a different mindset and perhaps a different time of day are bringing out realizations in viewers. But not me. Still this episode and arc - as spiritual as it may be - is childish , boring , uneventful and NOT what I want from a Star Wars show.
Seerow, great points in your review above. Being a fan of Friedman, did you happen to see his tweets that i posted?
I like what you are saying about the droids being potentially immortal and not understanding life in the same way as Gascon. But then they play with the similarities between A.I. and real life more by exploring the training of life forms versus programming of droids. In my review earlier I arrived at the same comparison with Umbara's clone programming theme versus the training/programming theme here. Nice to see the continuity in theme, and perhaps it will build to a further conclusion on this topic as we carry on with the series.
WAC positing that Gascon may be speaking to "the one who programmed him" while the distraught froggy talks to himself makes me think about both God/the Force creating Gascon, and also reminds me of Threepio's line "thank the maker!" and makes me wonder if GL really did mean that as a reference to Anakin as the maker.
These two episodes have been quite interesting, and I must say that I'm quite excited to find out what happens in the rest of the arc. I like how they've taken a different turn in TCW by doing this arc, it sort of gives us a break from the real action packed episodes by exploring something that hasn't really been explored in depth before, which are Droids, and adds a bit more comedy into TCW, which is good to have in a few episodes. I really like WAC-47 too I've always liked those Pit Droids, and it's great to see one have his own major screen time.
The first episode of this arc was a complete change from the increasingly dark tone TCW has been taking in later season but this episode reverted back to that dark tone. Its just a different kind of dark, IMO. This arc would be much better served with more 'living' and talking characters and I look back on my post in the "Secret Weapons" thread about sending Fives. This is another incident where a plot thread currently running could have been well expanded on but Gregor will have to do. I still don't see any connection with other episodes in the series which I think this arc is really going to need to justify its existence.
No, can you tell me what he tweeted please? I'm glad I'm not the only one having this reaction and I know that sounds weak. I just read my own post and feel insane. It feels really unlike TCW but I still like it. I really wasn't looking very hard for anything. It just jumped out at me when WAC and Gascon were arguing. I thought back to the scene when all the astromechs nearly flew off the ship when they were trying to repair it in the comet storm. I remembered thinking it sounded odd that QT sound like it was laughing. Then I wondered if the same wasn't true for the other droids. It really hits home when Gascon talks about the certainty of death however, atleast to me.
Well the philosophical stuff was okay at best, but Ioved the WAC and Gascon parts the most. Yes, I do like WAC. Ax for Gascon, I can understand why he goes whacky...It's simple he aint a real field commander. He can't handle stress and crisis like other field people. No matter, it was enjoyable. I didn't get upset or offended by it. I think this arc adds stuff to the series that maybe wasn't there before, like for example very good animation when it comes to the planet, the comets, and those droids look very detailed. You can see the dust on WAC's eye, and some of the other parts of the droids. Even Gascon's eyes looked good
Seerow, Friedman's been actively tweeting and replying to tweets about the episode. He's been pretty cool about responding to the critiques as well. He'd probably welcome your feedback if you tweet. Here are the most interesting tidbits:
@BFree63: It's hard to judge 4-ep arcs til the end. So much happens in the next 2 eps that pays off the first 2. Patience helps.
@BFree63: In the end this arc will pay your patience well if you like Republic Commandos. Not to mention a colossal Separatist plot.
@BFree63: Sorry, no Gregor in this week's episode. But he's the heart & soul of the next episode, "Missing in Action," airing in January.
The Starwars.com new episode commentary is basically just an interview with him.
That does make this arc sound like it will pay off nicely. Thank you for posting that
@Watto. I would be interested in asking Friedman if he or anyone working on TCW has ever heard of Casshern Sins. But alas I don't have a twitter and would rather not make one just to ask that even if it takes two seconds. =b
I just tweeted him for you, i will let you know what he says !
A couple more new ones:
@BFree63: @ForwardIntoDawn @theclonewars Thanks, man. The next episode, "Missing in Action," has it all: humor, action and heart. It's worth the wait.
@BFree63: @ctblauvelt Well the experimentation's over for this season. The next 2 eps are more conventional and action packed. But still a lotta fun.
Seerow, quick reply from him--
@BFree63: Never heard of Casshern Sins, but I just looked it up - sounds fascinating. Thanks for the tip!
Al I can think of whenever the little guy talks is
Thanks. Glad its just a funny coincidence. The only think missing was for someone to mention "the ruin" in this episode.
Now as him once and for all is WAC is named after LACWAC? =D
God dammit Clone Wars. This is the most underwhelming season so far. I haven't fully enjoyed any of the episodes. They best do well with Gregor. I'm sad to say my brother lost interest with the show during the Youngling arc (shudder..) and I'm close to stop watching unless I hear there might be something interesting. I mean, seriously. 3 repetitive/boring/USLESS arcs in a row. Yeah, yeah. They're pretty. But if the story is so bad, the visuals do minimal for me.
liek thar wasnt sith n clones n stuff in dis episode
da hell dis kiddy crap i want violence cuz im an adult
Okay but really, I enjoyed this episode after not liking "Secret Weapons". Yes, Gascon talked too much, but I enjoyed his nervous breakdown toward the end, the whole existential plot was great, and the artstyle was gorgeous.
And for some reason, I had a huge sense of deja vu while watching the episode.
I'm going to die soon