Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Dec 5, 2012.
Gregor is in a future episode..and the episode after that..
I must say that major Kudos to the Separatists to find and use even the most desolate planets to their advantage.
Maybe they are the ones who built the settlement we see in the end.
I think it was quite appropriate that a weird space bunny crash landed and died in "Gascon in Voidland" episode. Chock a win up for the EU. Now getting TCW to actually admit that was Jaxxon's skeletal remains is another matter.
Ok guys. I was super lax with the spoiler policy in this thread because let's face it there isn't' much to talk about with these episode and few people seem to be spoiler free anymore but there has been a complaint and so I am going to have to be a mean mod and tighten my grip. Posts about future eps will be deleted now. Thanks. See OP for details.
It deserves a TCW fortune cookie: "If you believe something enough, it becomes true."
Agreed. Remember there are people out there who don't necessarily know what's going to happen in the next episode and there are certainly the S5 heavy spoilers and the general TCW thread for that kind of discussion.
Remember as well, we only post and discuss the video previews in the S5 spoiler thread.
Well yeah, I don't think it's brought up ad nauseum, but it certainly sure is when we discuss changes to what we knew before that didn't need to be made.
Okay, FINE Seerow, new topic...
This is the Clone Wars MOST sci-fi episode. I'm talking about the real, hard, old school sci-fi. Grappling with concepts of man vs. machine and creation vs. programming, this is hitting buttons that the light hearted space opera of Star Wars never confronts so directly.
And what better time to do it? Right before his company is purchased by a huge conglomerate entertainment company, who will most likely only take the franchise in very expected and less risky directions. Disney will want to go for the entertainment that appeals to the broadest base and has the most chance of success. So we are looking at a very rare glimpse of GL being able to try some wonderful inventive stuff that he always wanted to do. He plans/threatens to make independent film stuff that "no one will want to watch" now that he's retiring, so this could be along those lines.
I will say that those who enjoyed this taste of the weird and inventive should savor it as we will most likely never get anything so unusual with Disney at the helm.
You are right about that. Many things in TCW does not need to be changed.... Each season there is that.
VERY TRUE But some things about this arc and season are not even a secret when you even look in plain site. For this arc there are even stuff displayed in the official page for Abafar in the Encyclopedia.
A person does not need to be gifted with things like that amazon preview to know things from 2013, they could just go on the official site and can be spoiled just as well.
This also can be a warning - starwars.com has a lot of spoilers that they do not care about.
Okay, now you've got my attention. Perhaps I'll watch this weekend.
Where does this episode fall in the timeline?
Did anyone else like the resemblance between the scene with the 4 Droids repairing the ship with the scene like that from TPM? I was hoping that they weren't gonna get destroyed one by one and R2 be the last one left.
I am sure if starwars.com did not cheat out on us with NO Trivia guide then it would have been mentioned. Even though I found it dumb that some droids came out of a door and the other two out of a hatch in the floor.
This episode was pretty WAC.
The void is timeless.
I kinda just pretend TCW is a floating timeline in my head considering how stuff gets arranged, rearranged, and then stretched out. I figure it'll come together in the end.
Are you saying..... like.... Mortis-timeless?
So like timeless in that it doesn't exist and is a horrible, horrible concept that Troy Denning should never have taken so damn literally?
I mean timeless as: when will it ever END?!?!?! And where did it BEGIN?!?!?! I suppose that's a bit cynical, but I imagine that is what Gascon is wondering as he looks across that expanse of void. And it certainly seems that is also what some viewers are wondering about this arc as well.
I didn't watch Clone Wars for three weeks and these are the episodes I come back to?? My thoughts on the episodes are here...
I wanted to share Adam Pawlus' review since he was so into this episode. Obviously just one opinion, but I think his enthusiasm is infectious and nice to see some love for the droids:
This episode was just awful.
TCW doesn't treat droids like they're programmed at all. They treat them all as if they think and feel and are quite self-aware, like they have something more similar to a human mind than a CPU. This seems to run contradictory to Obi-Wan's attitude in AOTC, and to most previous depictions in the EU. In the EU, only the most sophisticated droids can truly think, yet in TCW basically all droids possess this ability. The only way the droids seem programmed is that some have the calculating power and memory that only a machine could possess. Otherwise, they don't seem to follow any sort of set instructions, nor do they show a pattern of controlled responses. I think this is mostly done for entertainment (droid humor), I don't think they've really considered it on an in-universe level. It may also be a direct comparison to the growing individuality of the clones in TCW.
Just sticking to TCW, I don't think there's any doubt that the droids are sentient, or at least have the potential. C'mon, they seem to have feelings, they're sensitive, they show awareness, they ask metaphysical questions....what's left? Either they're sentient, or they mimic it to the point where there is no difference. The only thing in question for some, like the battle droids, is their intelligence. Low intelligence, even to the point of mental retardation by human standards, doesn't disqualify you from sentience.
So we have these obviously sentient droids all over the galaxy, and basically no one acknowledges it. Everyone treats them as toasters or pets, even the Jedi. I'm going to skip over the moral concerns and ask what is keeping the droids from revolting? What is keeping them in line? Many of them can clearly think on their own and choose which orders to obey. Seeing how they're treated as trash cans, that they have feelings or at least take offense, what's keeping them from lashing out violently? Why do they accept their status as property? The only thing I've seen that could keep them in line is restraining bolts, which are just slave collars.
This episode asked what was the difference between training and programming. I think the difference between training and what we traditionally refer to as programming, the most basic level of programming, is irrelevant. Clearly the GFFA is far beyond what we can do in terms of programming, and these droids are so advanced that they're less like robots and more like actual living beings, they've achieved "strong AI". The droids' programming is sophisticated enough to be indistinguishable from human programming.
Gascon asked why he has to explain himself to a droid. Well, no "one" has to explain themselves to anyone. If you turn that around, if the droids are even asking you to explain yourself, that should demonstrate that they're on a similar level as sentient organic beings.
I've mentioned the difference between B1 battle droids in TPM and TCW several times in this forum (I won't repeat myself) and WAC seems similarly different from the DUM-series (yep, that's their class designation) pit droids in TPM.
The biggest thing I noticed with WAC is how inconsistent his intelligence has been portrayed. For most of "Secret Weapons", he's a complete moron with little sign of logical thought. In the next episode he's talking metaphysics. That's quite a leap. He sees that the shuttle is on a collision course, he's smart enough to know that's bad, but he's not smart enough to simply drop out of hyperspace, even though he's supposed to be a pilot.
If these droids have actual controlled programming, it seems strange that they would have anything close to resembling feelings at all. Why would anyone program them that way, why would that be desirable? It seems more likely that the programmers would specifically set out to prevent that. Why would a battle droid, designed only to fight in a war, ask "WHHHYYYYYY???" Why should be irrelevant to them. Why would battle droids be programmed to complain? Why are the droids smart enough to ask why, yet too stupid to get out of the way when a grenade is sitting at their feet? There's a lot of inconsistency here.
Why in the Nine Corellian Hells would a droid be allowed to suggest a sentient being commit suicide?
That takes me to the first two of the "Three Laws of Robotics", which we basically see no sign of.
#1 A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
I would expect most droids to be programmed with this "law", battle droids being the exception. Yet in TCW I don't know that we've seen any droid programmed this way.
#2 A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Again, I would expect just about all droids to be programmed with this "law", yet we see droids blowing off orders constantly.
Blah, I think just in this wall of text I've put more thought into this (not that it's much thought) than TCW has, I think they're just taking ideas, running with them and turning them into stories without much consideration for the galaxy they're building. Lucas would consider that to be taking this too seriously.
I prefer the EU's approach.
CT-867-5309-- I like where you're going with these questions. It got me to thinking that there is a narrative purpose to these droids acting sentient. And you're right that from the start of TCW the battle droids have displayed this human like existential questioning.
Well I guess I'm saying put aside the science of programming a robot, and consider what GL is asking us to think about with the droids plight. Just like the clones they are expendable war machines, but they're obviously just pieces of metal to us, while the clones are human and should be considered more precious. To a sentient droid, their droid lives are just as valuable. I think it gets us thinking about the same question of an individual's value in the grand scheme of the war, the cost of war and loss of self, and builds on that theme. Its just in a slightly skewed view considering its unrealistic to have a sentient droid. Absurd even. It is a heightened reality rather than a strict version of it.
CARTOON NETWORK 1.5/8 Avg. (7a-1p) / December 1st
Scan 2 Go 0.7/7; Ninjago 1.1/10; Beyblade: Metal Fury 1.0/6; Pokemon B&W: Rival Destinies 1.6/9; Ben 10: Omniverse 1.8/8; Star Wars: Clone Wars 1.3/6; Dragons: Riders of Berk 1.3/6; Dragons: Riders of Berk 1.7/8; Johnny Test 1.9/9; Johnny Test 1.8/8; Johnny Test 1.5/7; Amazing World of Gumball 1.7/8
CARTOON NETWORK 1.5/7 Avg. (7a-1p) / December 13th
Scan 2 Go 0.7/7; Ninjago 1.2/10; Beyblade: Metal Fury 1.1/7; Pokemon B&W: Rival Destinies 1.7/9; Ben 10: Omniverse 1.5/6; Star Wars; Clone Wars 1.4/6; Dragons: Riders of Berk 1.2/5; Dragons: Riders of Berk 1.7/7; Amazing World of Gumball 2.2/9; Amazing World of Gumball 1.8/8; Grandma Got Runover By A Reindeer (1x60) 1.8/8
It seems like this arc is still chugging along with the 6-11 age group.