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TCW Episode The Clone Wars - Episode 5.4 - The Soft War - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012

    But cutting a 90 minute feature TCW does is very annoying. There is not episodic resolve like in "Innocence of Ryloth"...
    This is what Onderon is missing... better endings and resolutions to each episode. Not me just hitting the stop button and saying "No more of this film until next week", It is just annoying.
    DM99 likes this.
  2. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Sep 3, 2012
    This episode was cool nuff said! :p
  3. AkashKedavra_93

    AkashKedavra_93 Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 8, 2011
    This may be a small thing, but I do like the shield system at the palace, it was unique.
    Barriss_Coffee and Darth Vader like this.
  4. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Aug 15, 2011
    I love the design of the palace and the Royal Guard.
  5. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWAC-y Mod of SWTV & New Films Force projection star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 15, 2010

    This pretty sums up my feelings regarding the pacing issues with these first three episodes (with the second installment suffering most). The Blu-ray release of four-part arcs paced in this manner should come with a feature to watch the story in its entirety, free of interruption.

    On its own, last week found me searching for little niceties to appreciate (like the night-vision goggles and that sub-bass sound explosion at the power facility), rather than being treated to much movement in the story and that can be a symptom of issues that arise when an adventure that is meant to play long is chopped up into 22 minute bites.

    That said, this episode stands on its own merits better than the first two, by far. Each individual act was packed with action and intrigue and, as opposed to last week, each with a shift in focus and advance in the narrative.

    After one viewing some things stood out. I enjoyed the new general and hope to see him survive and perhaps one day factor in to the Rebel Alliance. Although Saw got a lick in, I was surprised to see not one rebel make even an attempt on the life of King Rash during the tumult of the rescue. I was surprised to see the Super Battle Droids stop from advancing when ordered to fire on the escaping rebels, simply because a crowd of Onderonians stood in their way. My only guess is they've a standing order against moving against civilians without orders to do so.

    I'm looking forward to next week's big payoff, though as has been stated, we may find that too much needs to be resolved with too little time left to do it well. We shall see.

    Seerow likes this.
  6. Eternal_Hero

    Eternal_Hero Jedi Youngling star 1

    Sep 21, 2012
    Brilliant. Some of the best writing the series has seen so far. Truly epic.

    Someone who has never seen SW before could start with this arc and totally get it and become involved in the story. Impressive all around.

    Also: Saturday morning? They don't seem to care! As dark and complex as the best of the series has been.
    AkashKedavra_93 likes this.
  7. Legacy Jedi Endordude

    Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Knight star 3

    Sep 9, 2012
    Does this symbol look familiar? Maybe like an early Rebel Symbol? Look at the shoulder pad!

  8. Master_Fwiffo

    Master_Fwiffo Jedi Master star 3

    May 29, 2001
    This was the first episode of this arc that wasn't boring as crap. The dueling General's were badly needed, and I really liked the design of the robot general. The battle in the smoke was excellent. First solid episode of the arc.
    Seerow likes this.
  9. Theo333

    Theo333 Jedi Master star 3

    Mar 29, 2011
    Okay, so they ARE going with the cliche rebellion plot. Anyone notice how the villains...don't really do anything that warrants outrage besides the execution of the defenseless old man and some torture? The droid general doesn't do anything besides stand around and be annoyed. So does the human general. That big reveal with the hologram last episode? Oooh, SCARY! He's gonna stand around and TALK A LOT!

    Look at that horrible king bite into that poor defenseless fruit! I guess if we were an audience of sentient peaches we would be screeching for Steela to hang him from the rafters.

    Heck, the human general even proposed flesh and blood troops being used to- oh, they're not even going there, are they?

    The droids don't due anything particularly heinous either. They just...patrol and check cargo. That's it. If you replaced the droids with clone troopers, would their behavior be out of character?
  10. SpecialOpsUnit

    SpecialOpsUnit Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 1, 2007
    They easily could of combined this episode with last episode, still a huge improvement. The entire execution scene was nicely done. Unfortunate that Kalanai didn't really do anything, I hope that changes things next episode and we see him on the battlefield. Hopefully he won't be a waste.

    This arc definitely didn't need 4 episodes. I'm ready to move on from Onderon.
    Seerow likes this.
  11. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    The thing that really got to me about the execution scene is that... they all just leave... The military had the SBDs at bay, Kalani couldn't do anything, Rash was being held captive, but they all just... retreat...
  12. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 12, 2003
  13. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 8, 2009
    Didn't Padme say that Mina used to be a senator for the Republic? Why would she be representing Onderon in the Senate if the planet was neutral? And why would she revere Count Dooku after his droids dethroned her king? If she's a pacifist, wouldn't she oppose having a military dictatorship imposed on her people? These are questions that seriously need to be answered. Although they probably won't be. :rolleyes:

    I have to say, this episode was a lot better than the last two. That isn't saying much, but I would consider this episode of "average" TCW quality. All the talk about the will of the people, and the fact that the king saw both sides of the war as corrupt, made the situation a little more interesting. Hopefully his neutral standpoint will ultimately cause the rebels to oppose the Republic at the end of the arc.

    There were a few things that really annoyed me. The first, of course, was the droid humor. The ending battle was really intense until those goofy voices started screaming "Hey!" at the rebels. The second thing was the Lux/Steela dialogue. Ripping off dialogue from the films =/= good writing. Ripping off dialogue from the films = cheesiness. Finally, I was disappointed with Kalani. He was a good tactician and he was pretty threatening but he was useless in combat. Disn't Lux tackle him? That's kind of pathetic for an automated killing machine...

    Overall I'd give this episode an 8/10. The issues from the first two episodes carried over but they weren't anywhere near as prevalent in this case. If this momentum carries over to next week's episode, maybe we'll be able to say that this arc wasn't a complete waste of our time. Yay? [face_worried]
    Seerow and rumblewagon like this.
  14. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    May 18, 2002
    Watching now.

    The hoodies are becoming annoying. Droids, arrest anyone walking around with their hood up.

    You'd think they could have CCTV in the GFFA. :p. but I just watched Person of Interest...

    Wow Saw is Anakin.

    Man, she must have reached at least 10 people with that GIANT HOLOGRAM.

    Kalani does kinda sound like Soundwave! :D

    Again with the fruit. Sigh. Guy must have a lot of cavities.

    So they want to make a martyr out of the old king? Sigh. Lol Garth calls it before Ahsoka.

    Not loving the voice acting. Why wouldn't Ahsoka go with Saw?

    Could have done without the 'Snips' but otherwise good pep talk.

    What about Bonteri? The King made the decision? Why not talk to the Jedi beforehand?

    "we take orders from no one" but want the old king back. Okayyyyy.

    Laser guillotine!!!

    Why did Ahsoka light her sabers?

    So basically, if Front Runners never existed, I'd quite enjoy the first and this episode.

    In fact, it's doubtful I'll ever watch FR again.

    This was a much better episode and it's such a shame they wasted so much time last week.
  15. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012
    Maybe they left the Republic at the beginning of the war and attempted to stay neutral. The droids may not have occupied Onderon like they do now when Mina was alive. Maybe her proposal for peace caused Dooku to add extra 'security' to keep an eye on things? Hopefully we get some answers in the next episode, because it's a big, confusing mess...
  16. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Jun 29, 2003
    Ha! I didn't even think of that -- why the heck did they put it in the middle of a sidestreet?
  17. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    Sesshomaru! xD

    Oh boy, Lux got shot down there by Steela. Moving on from that this episode was much better than the last two. I like how Ashoka's struggles mirrored the struggles to the Rebel group and she did her best to not get involved until forced. She's actually well used in this arc except for the damn love triangle. Steela and Saw got a little development. I liked watching his attempted rescue. I really liked General Tandin. There was some intrigue in the dialogue exchanges between him and Saw. The battle at the end with the smoke grenade was cool. However, Rash is a total idiot but I guess that's why he was installed. I didn't really pay any attention to Kalani since he didn't do anything.

    I'm guessing that the king is democratically elected on Onderon like on Naboo? (Is that right?). The true king confuses me. It seemed like he was actually leading Saw into a trap until the Jedi were mentioned. The way this arc seems to be retconning HOBS is getting to me more than I would have thought. I need to rewatch HOBS although I've been meaning to wait until next week to watch all five episodes together. Then the true king tells Lux "Your mother would be proud." Wait what? I'm increasingly confused. Was the red shirt girl I liked really named Duno as in Dunno?

    One more of these, lets see what the pay off is.
  18. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 25, 2011
    AGREED! I would gladly forgo 4 Saturdays, and take the entire arc in one evening as a made-for-TV movie. This arc in particular would benefit from seamless story-telling, not four uneven segments.
  19. Spazmatron

    Spazmatron Jedi Padawan star 3

    Sep 19, 2012
    Saw the episode tonight.. I thought it was really good

    And Lux got denied by both Steela AND Ahsoka! NOW WE'RE TALKIN'!!

    Lux is a lot more tolerable than he was in s3 and 4 but stay away from my favorite character you little brat!
  20. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    Better yet go find a girl friend who truly deserves you and who will truly appreciate you for who you are Lux. You deserve far better.
    Garth Maul likes this.
  21. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    I was sure that was the voice they would have David Kaye use, but I was very pleasantly surprised to hear he went predominantly Megatron, with a bit of Sesshomaru in a few of his quieter lines.

    Onderon has an established history, though, of being governed by benevolent monarchs. It's perhaps the first time in the series' history where the trope has a deserved place and actually should be observed.

    So far, the best episode of the arc. Though admittedly, that's not really saying much. First of all, it seems they completely forgot and dropped the whole "We can make [the blackout] work for us" musing by King Rash. I had a feeling that was going to happen; can't allow for any shades of grey to bleed in or people might be tricked into thinking there was some real depth. The environment, especially the Royal Palace, continue to look excellent, and the diversity of character models among the crowd shot truly showcased how far the series has come in that regard. The action was, again, well done and interesting to watch.

    I was largely let down by the deposed king, yet unlike the last episode, found Saw to be significantly improved. His dialogue was leaps and bounds above what it had been previously, and he seemed like an actual character this time, instead of a vessel for a thousand cliches. But of all the romance from the movies to emulate, they decided to go with the awkwardness of Anakin and Padme from Attack of the Clones for Steela and Lux? Who the hell is making these inconsistent decisions?! So hit or miss... While Kalani didn't actually do very much, I did enjoy how he served as something of a living avatar of the CIS, viewing Onderon and its people in purely tactical terms, assets and enemies, with what they can do for and against the Separatists' interests. He contrasted nicely with David Kaye's Onderonian general, whose name I unfortunately cannot recall. And once again, I liked that guy. He looked a bit like Gilad Pellaeon, and sounded quite a bit like Megatron, so all-in-all, he was definitely a win for the episode. :p The execution rescue was interesting to watch, even if I don't really understand why Steela felt she had to wait until quite literally the last second to snipe the droids; if anything, it felt like she was in on the production goal of increasing the drama. The turn and arrival of the military was a nice touch, though I was hoping for something a bit more than an Ahsoka save to free the general. Nothing against Ahsoka there, I was just hoping he might've had an extra card up his sleeve or something. Oh well.
    TreborSabreon likes this.
  22. Asharak

    Asharak Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 23, 2003
    "Although Saw got a lick in, I was surprised to see not one rebel make even an attempt on the life of King Rash during the tumult of the rescue."

    Killing Rash wouldn’t win the war, Dooku would just install another puppet.
    Seerow likes this.
  23. Orrelios

    Orrelios Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 21, 2005
    This was a very good episode; not a lot of action but it definitely moved the plot forward nicely and I quite like General Tandin (I liked the scene with him and Kalani during Saw's torture which shows that he is sort of the 'good cop' to Kalani's 'bad cop'; seems like he'll be a major player now). I'm also continuing to like the design of the city and the execution scene was probably the best part; loved the concept of the ray shield guillotine - I hope they'll bring it back in a later episode. The death of the female rebel (Dono) was really well done, sudden and shocking as it was, and from the looks of it, there will be a lot of fighting in the next episode since the Separatists will for sure get much more serious now when the rebels managed to get hold of the old king Dendup and the royal guard, making the opposition stronger.
    Seerow likes this.
  24. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    Based on what we know of the situation, I'm sure you're right. However, in just the last episode, we're told that the rebels had attacked the royal carriage in what was presumably an attempt on Rash's life. While it's not a concrete assessment as it comes from Rash himself upon hearing the news, it would seem logical that any assault on Rash's carriage would be intended as an assault upon him. Having Lux barely pistol whip him, and then none of the other rebels following up, just really sticks out.

    I thought it was pretty cool, too, but I actually hope it doesn't come back. Leaving it as a one-off thing for this arc would make it appear to be a uniquely Onderonian thing and execution by laser guillotine a uniquely Onderonian practice.
    TreborSabreon likes this.
  25. General_Un-Co

    General_Un-Co Jedi Padawan star 1

    Oct 9, 2010
    Dooku would be foolish to install another puppet, the new "puppet" would be placed directly in the firing line straight away. Allowing the people to elect their own leader, on the condition that they remain within the CIS is a sign of good faith. And allows the CIS to continue to label the rebels as terrorist and with good cause. Any action against an elected official is clearly against the will of the majority.