TCW Episode The Clone Wars - Episode 5.5 - Tipping Points - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. LordMortis315 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    My thoughts (apologies if it's lacking coherence):

    Pretty good episode and a pretty good arc overall. Not as good as the Nightsisters, Mortis, Umbara, Obi-Wan Undercover or Return of Maul storylines, but still enjoyable; certainly moreso than the political stuff in Season 3 and pre-Umbara episodes of Season 4.

    Having the Jedi and Rex take a step back and interfere less was a nice departure from the typical Jedi and clone action we've known (and enjoyed, but variety is always good) and allows these rebels a chance to shine.

    I'm glad that the rebels aren't so naïve to think that simply taking down King Rash will solve everything; they realize that they need the people of Onderon's support and trust, otherwise they will be seen as terrorists. Another armed occupation is not a free Onderon, to paraphrase another resistance fighter in the show.

    The character interaction was handled very well, in my opinion; they didn't hit us over the head with it to where it bogged the episode down, but they didn't completely ignore it, either. Lux and Saw were established as rivals at the start of the first episode, but they grew to become comrades and brothers in arms throughout this campaign. Saw and Steela were revealed to be siblings in the end of the second episode, and whilst Saw was visibly displeased at the appointment of Steela as the leader then, he recognized his sister's ability to lead and fight, reconciled with her, and visibly mourned her death and blamed himself for it.

    This also served as development for both Lux and Ahsoka. After being unsure of his allegiance for the last two seasons, seeing Ahsoka in action here inspired him to become a Senator (like his mother before him) and join the Republic. Ahsoka being reunited with Lux caused her teenage hormones to rage, which, coupled with Steela's obvious attraction to him, caused her to lose her focus. By the last episode, however, I think Ahsoka's mind has been cleared. She wasn't upset when Steela grabbed Lux away for a kiss; in fact, she seemed happy for him, giving him a playful punch on the arm.

    Voice acting was pretty solid:

    Andrew Kishino and Dawn-Lyen Gardner have certainly made their marks on the Star Wars universe as the Gerrera siblings. Jason Spisak is someone I've grown to like as a VA over the last year, so hearing him as Lux is always a joy for me. Ashley Eckstein is awesome, as always, as Ahsoka. A surprising VA appearance was anime veteran Kirk Thornton as King Rash (I swear, if Steven Blum, Crispin Freeman, Johnny Yong Bosh, Yuri Lowenthal or Travis Willingham appear in The Clone Wars, my head will explode), and he was great as the thorn in both Onderon and Dooku's sides.

    Gregg Berger and David Kaye were great as the two generals; I've seen some people say that the droid and Gregg Berger were wasted and whilst I don't disagree with them, I liked that Tandin realized his errors for siding with Onderon's Rash (see what I did there?) and joined the rebels. Plus, I've been a fan of David Kaye for some time, going back to his role as Professor Charles Xavier in X-Men: Evolution (and I heard a little bit of Charles in Tandin, which made me smile), which I watched when I was a kid, whilst I had no idea Gregg Berger existed until a couple of months ago. Although Dave posted a FB pic of a recent episode recording over the summer of which Gregg Berger was a part of, so I don't think we've seen the last of him in the show.

    On a minor note, I did like Nika Futterman as Dono, the rebel who was tailing Saw in the last episode, and was a little sad when she died in the last episode, even though we didn't really get to know her.

    And speaking of casualties, alas, poor Steela Gerrera. In an ideal world, Onderon would have been reclaimed with no casualties, and Steela and Dono would be standing alongside Ahsoka, Lux, Saw, and Dendup in front of the cheering citizens. But this is not the case, and every conflict has consequences. Dono was shot by an SBD trying to save Dendup, and it did not go to vain; Dendup was rescued and he encouraged the citizens of Onderon to turn against its Rash. So, in that sense, Dono had a good death. I wish I could say the same for Steela. Her death was literally an afterthought; after the last gunship was taken down and the battle was supposedly over. Hanging from the edge of a cliff with a slim chance of being able to climb back up. Ahsoka to the rescue! Use the Force, Snips! She's pulling her back, looks like she's gonna make it! Nope; "BANG!" goes the droid gunship, Ahsoka loses concentration, Steela falls (from a greater height than before, I might add), thud, death. It was most likely not the death Steela would have wanted; she probably would've rather died being shot to death by the droids, like Dono. This shows that not everyone who dies in a war dies in a blazing fireball of glory, so to speak. That being said, it was tragic, especially seeing the sadness in everyone's faces, most notably Saw, Lux, and Ahsoka. It was made even worse by giving us a glimmer of hope that Ahsoka might save her, but, alas, this was not the case.

    RIP Steela, we hardly knew ye. Well, actually, we knew ye fairly well, only for you to be taken away from us. Filoni, you sadistic bastard. You follow the steps of your master well...a little too well, methinks. :p
    Last edited by LordMortis315, Oct 28, 2012
  2. smuggler_vola Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2012
    star 1
    Not one of my favorite arcs, but overall it was pretty good.

    We had that glimmer of hope that Ahsoka would save Steela and everything would be perfect and a happy ending. Then came the shot, Ahsoka loses concentration, and BAM Steela's dead.
  3. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    star 6
    I'd totally love Johnny Young Bosch (More for a PR guest star however) and Travis Wellingham in The Clone Wars. Maybe Vic Mignogna, Monica Rial, Scott McNeil, J. Michael Tatum (Both him and Travis Wellingham would make badass non-clone officers) and Mary McGlynn. Add those to my long list of other VAs.

    I guess Kalani is going to be a recurring character?
    Last edited by Seerow, Oct 28, 2012
  4. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

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    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Did we get character development with Saw, Steela, and Lux?

    We did get some with Ahsoka, thank the Maker.

    Just found it hard to care about this arc, despite the fact that I was clamoring for a return to the "war" part of the Clone Wars. :p
  5. AkashKedavra_93 Emperor of the Seven Realms and the First Dragons

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    From the Trivia Section:

    [IMG]
    Programmed Response

    An unscripted response from the lead droid gunship mechanically intones "by your command," a nod to the classic Cylons from the original Battlestar Galactica series.

    [IMG]
    Never Bring a Slingshot to a Blaster Fight

    Did you notice: One of the Weequays that greets Anakin upon his arrival to Florrum is armed with a slingshot.

    [IMG]
    Back in Business

    Further evidence that this arc was to take place before the season premiere: Hondo's base is intact, where as we see it smashed later on when Darth Maul arrives in "Revival." More on this in the next arc.

    [IMG]
    Spies or Spice?

    If you're wondering what Hondo says to Steela: it's a flirtatious, "You can be my new favorite spice."

    [IMG]
    It Belongs in a Museum

    Hondo's yacht is named the Fortune and Glory, a nod to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, wherein Indy and Short Round talk about seeking out "fortune and glory." Ship concept art by Wayne Lo.

    [IMG]
    Certainly Has a Lot of Courage

    When Lux points out to Ahsoka that Steela's courage is all well and good but, "What good would that do us if she gets herself killed," it's a deliberate echo of a line Luke Skywalker delivers about Han Solo in Episode IV.

    [IMG]
    Gunship Origins

    The saucer-shaped droid gunships were first seen over Kashyyyk in Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith. The design of the droid gunship stems from the saucer shapes used in the development of the Trade Federation vessels seen in Episode I. In the script for this episode, they are called HMP Predators. Episode III concept art by TJ Frame.

    [IMG]
    Home to Roost

    The rebel base nickname of "the nest" is appropriate, as it is situated on the cliff-face alongside giant ruping nests. Illustration by David LeMerrer.

    [IMG]
    No Battle Cats

    During the development of the episode, an Onderonian narglatch was designed and modeled for use by the rebels, but it never made it to final animation. Supervising director Dave Filoni reasoned that the rebels would use more practical beasts of burden like dalgos and rupings for transportation, rather than a ferocious jungle cat.

    Courtesy of starwars.com
  6. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Here's what I gather.

    -Steela became a wise and competent leader who rallied her cause even after her demise
    -Saw came to terms with his pride but didn't learn his lesson about thinking before acting until after it turned into the heaviest sort of lesson.
    -Ahsoka learned to cast her feelings aside and now carries the sting of failure and guilt. She is once again questioning the War and its cost.
    -Lux lost both the girls. He is getting setup to be a pretty tragic character IMO. He's come over to the Republics greener lawn. He's still a lovable idiot. Next lets meet Rex please.

    @AkashKedavra_93

    I liked the hoplessly low tech and outclassed guy with the sling shot. Atleast try for his weak spot Weequay. And there seems to be a hint this next arc will cover Hondo's base getting smashed so its likely more than 1 episode from the Young Jedi arc that has had been moved front and center. Hondo has no shame and his ship looks like a cruise ship. And yeah, we've seen enough battle cats.
    Last edited by Seerow, Oct 28, 2012
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  7. DM99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 3
    battle catz?

    Ahsoka and Steela, anyone?!
  8. Inblackestnight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2012
    star 1
    A decent ending to a wholly mediocre arc. Since the creators feel the need to make four-part arcs why couldn't they have split this ep into two instead of practically the rest of the arc? Hondo is great but actually showing Anakin going there was a waste of time IMO. A holo-conversation would've sufficed and it could've been done immediately after Obi-Wan and Anakin are talking about it. Rash and Kalani, completely wasted potential. The gunships and animation were fantastic.
    I don't follow the 'logic' of this statement, but considering she took a blaster cannon to the shoulder and simply put a bandage on it points more to her being a Mary Sue than showing adult Jedi behavior. Also, why couldn't she use the Force to save Lux and Steela at the same time? Because despite the many other rebels who died we still needed a contrived death scene. Speaking of which, when Saw was firing his rocket-launcher for the second time he walks out in the open with droids right next to him and doesn't get shot, but Steela falls off a cliff. I can't say I'm looking forward to the Young Jedi arc but this one has long over-stayed it's welcome.
    Last edited by Inblackestnight, Oct 28, 2012
  9. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I don't agree that the whole getting shot and not getting a scratch thing should count against Ahsoka's maturity. One thing the Onderon arc definately did was give Ahsoka some much needed development lending to maturity. Over the course of the arc Ahsoka learned how to lead from behind and how to let go of her attachment to Lux. Really this may be the last we see of Lux because it would seem he has fulfilled his part of Ahsoka's arc. Ahsoka is also getting more and more frustrated with the war and the toll its taken. She now has extra guilt and failure to carry around. Just think of all the things the war has taken away from Lux now. The getting shot in a shoulder thing is just poor execution of the idea. It would have been better if a Commando Droid that seemed to be smashed managed to pick up its blaster and hit her in the shoulder. I'd fanon that it was a small side gun but it definately seemed like one of the big forward canons and her arm should have been gone. That could have been a big moment and its not like it would have been fatal in the GFFA.
    Last edited by Seerow, Oct 28, 2012
  10. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    When the rebels guarding the nest were being shot by the same cannon(s) I didn't see them getting blown up or losing limbs. I figured those were more of a defense thing and the missiles were the primary weapon.
  11. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Ahsoka is protected by the Force!
    As I just said, PROTECTED BY THE FORCE!
  12. DM99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 3
    I dont think that was simply a bandage. Some device was also mounted on it.

    [IMG]
  13. DM99 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 3
    I dont get why anyone claims that ahsoka needs to get the arm cut off from that blastershot. It penetratet her shoulder blade. If it had penetratet an armbone than she would have lost her arm. The hot blasterbold cuts through her flesh, while a projectileweapon would rip of her arm because of the kinetic energy.


  14. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    It wasn't just any blaster shot, it was a shot from a big gunship, therefore it should have realistically* blown her arm off, Force or no Force.

    *And don't give me that "it's sci-fi/fantasy" crap. These are supposed to be people with the same physical attributes as us, and yes, blasters don't exist either, but within the SW universe a high-caliber shot such as that should have done much more damage than it seemingly did.
    Inblackestnight, Esg and Seerow like this.
  15. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    From 15:11-15:15 they don't appear to be much more powerful than a regular blaster. And it was badly damaged, it probably didn't have enough power left for a full powered shot.
    Last edited by KenobiSkywalker, Oct 28, 2012
  16. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

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    IDK. I'll be honest, I'm biased because I just don't like Ahsoka and want her to suffer. [face_devil] Was it low powered? Eh, either way it's a clear case of character shield. They could have done it so that the gunship simply shot at the cliff to make a strong enough explosion that Ahsoka would fall down and lose her hold of Steela.

    Still, this show misses opportunities to show just how gruesome this war can be. Would be cool to see clones losing limbs and suffering other realistic battle injuries.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I'll need to look at that again. I'm willing to go with it either being a low power canon or a damaged canon. I however can't imagine why the Seperatists would put blasters of the same caliber as hand held weapons as the main weapons on big gunships. I imagined this would be like the difference between a Mac-10 and the GAU-8 Avenger the A-10 Thunderbolt 2 is built around. And that's probably over kill since there would be nothing left of a person if that were the case.
    Last edited by Seerow, Oct 28, 2012
  18. LordMortis315 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Wouldn't there be a union/region problem with McNeil, since he's located in Canada?

    Speaking of VA's, I want Ben Diskin (Morley) to come back. I've been a fan of his for a long time, and my head exploded when I found out he was Morley. Made me hate the character less. :p
    Last edited by LordMortis315, Oct 28, 2012
  19. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I have no idea.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Ending was dumb. Overdramatized and way too slow with force lifting Steela, and barely a scratch on Tano when those gunships were blowing holes into rock walls. Did not like.
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  21. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Where's my Ahsoka crying face? Oh yes, there it is....
    [IMG]
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  22. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    It looked like that whole scene was in slow motion. As for Ahsoka's wound, while she probably should have had a more significant injury, Obi Wan didn't even suffer a scratch when Boba fired on him with Slave I in AOTC. [IMG]


    Of course Obi Wan needed to survive for ANH but still..
    Last edited by KenobiSkywalker, Oct 28, 2012
  23. Convor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 2
    Steela's death would have been tragic if I cared about her as a character at all.

    Hondo was sadly underused.

    We didn't need to spend 4 episodes on Onderon.

    But I tuned in for the action, and it delivered.

    7/10
    Last edited by InherentConflict, Oct 28, 2012
  24. Zabrak 2 Jedi Master

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    Sep 7, 2012
    star 2
    I I feel like they did not need Front Runners and The Soft War and General Tandin betrayed Rash offscreen and escaped with the king to the rebel's second base.

    So then Onderon would just be a double and have more time for Young Jedi.
    Last edited by Zabrak 2, Oct 28, 2012
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  25. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I agree. The first three should have been one episode. Then maybe even extend Tipping Points to span two episodes.
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