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Full Series The Clone Wars - Episode 5.9 - A Necessary Bond - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Seerow, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    The2ndQuest That was my impression, and it didn't seem too corny, amazingly enough. By far, the best out of the four eppys. Hondo is my favorite non Jedi character in TCW, I love how he flip flops from one minute to the next. Very well written, imo. Loved gg's speeder and the fact that it ended with him cowering before his cackle. Just a fun episode to watch.
     
  2. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 11, 2011
    Just being around her is... intoxicating.
     
  3. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    Heh, I had a moment after it was over where I wondered if I was losing the love. I think if I was going to go back and fix the arc my main fix would be to remove all the kids but Katooni and I guess Petrol. I felt like most of them still had their dysfunctional quirks. Zatt for example still had his techobabble and there was still room for all the youglins to see more development and Ganodi had quite an attitude. Are Jedi supposed to have tempers like that? I get the group had a sub arc of learning to be a team but really they came into the story seeming to be friends. That is a familiar story to me. Then Petrol may have done the smart thing and ran, he is a punk but not a brainless one but nobody ever called him out for anything and most of the younglings still were looking to him for advice. They should have reversed it with Katooni taking defacto leader at the end. I am just seeing alot of could have, would have, shoulda. anyway when an adult is present Petrol does not seem to openly disobey them just interrupt. Yeah so, better luck next time Christain Taylor. I am sure you will finally get an arc right.

    I thought they were doing the Jedi version of standing in a circle and putting hands together like teams do, ya know? I guess it looked like that and certainly looked cool. lol. When Obi-wan ignited his I thought he was going to do something like knight Petro. I said "Probably not gonna work out well." to my TV.
     
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  4. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Yeah, I for one, would have crushed that knighting.:p
     
  5. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    Well, we've finally wrapped up another month-long TCW adventure. Count me among the number who had some reservations at the idea going in. You see, I was afraid that maybe the show's producers were starting to listen to all of the short-sighted viewers out there (and in here) who insist on calling TCW a kid's show just because it's presented in an animated format. Just as they have been in every mainstream Star Wars venture, children are part of the equation, sure, but anybody paying attention cannot deny the plethora of visuals and themes in this show obviously geared towards the show's older audience. Happily, my fears wound up being mostly unfounded, as I found the execution of the Young Jedi arc quite enjoyable.

    We open with an exciting, action-packed first act, though as with some others, I found that maybe the pirate chase was a bit long or overdone. For a moment during the chase, I mistook Petro as the only passenger left on the tank and as the vessel approached the ravine, I envisioned a scenario where, in an attempt to save his firends, Petro would be forced to take the tank over the edge, sacrificing himself in a glorious conclusion to his story. In the end it didn't happen like that, of course. It's almost a shame, though, if you picture what an unexpected turn such as this could have meant to the arc.

    In spite of avoiding spoilers, between the episode's moral ("Choose your enemies wisely as they may be your last hope"), Hondo's description of Grievous' attack on the pirate compound in "Revival" and Dooku's lingering anger with Ohnaka, it seemed pretty clear that we would be treated to a large-scale CIS attack led by Grievous in the episode and it did not disappoint. Still, I had to ask myself, "To what end are they attacking?" The CIS seemed to plunder some of the raw materials left after slagging the compound, but is this largely a venture motivated by revenge alone? If so, it honestly seems as though something so petty should be a bit beneath a Sith Lord. I'd like to think, at least, that there's more to it than that for Dooku. Incidentally, during this attack, we were treated to an awfully funny moment when Gungi physically held Byph back for a moment during the fighting.

    I have to admit, I found Hondo's gentle encouragement of Katooni rather touching. I love that, in a show where the ultimate outcome of events is already a known factor, we can still be treated to a character where we never really know what to expect. Ohnaka has developed into a man whose motives, while still largely profit-driven, are just as likely to be impossible to pin down in any given moment. We already knew from his talk with Boba that Hondo values honor and, interestingly, it seems that in "trust," we may have discovered something else the old pirate values nearly as much as his profit margin.

    Yes, this episode may have been Ohnaka's personal best yet. When Hondo quipped "Great, I feel so safe!" in response to Katooni's assurance of safety, it was only one of many outstanding quotes. It's amazing just how often the writers have knocked it out of the park with this guy (and extra-special mention should go to the voice actor here, too). That said, I agree that too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing. Here's to hoping we've seen the last of Mr. Ohnaka for a bit. Before I get off of Hondo, though, I wanted to mention the use of his sword in this episode. I recall Ohnaka's action figure produced by Hasbro a few years back came with a curved sword much like the one seen here and I thought it was a nice touch featuring it in the episode.

    In the final battle, we see Ahsoka duel with General Grievous for the second time. Unlike their first encounter on Skytop Station (where Tano was barely able to hold her own long enough to escape), Ahsoka was able to stand her ground in protection of her charges. The battle was more evenly matched, with ahsoka displaying much of the power she has developed in the interim. Still, it began to look as though, had Katooni not convinced Hondo to go back for Tano and the initiates, Ahsoka may not have been able to last much longer against the General (who's scorpion walk, by the way, is just awesome).

    The one thing I just was not prepared for was the triumphant return of the Slave I. Wow, what a fine job the show did giving the ship an entrance. As others have mentioned, seeing that the pirates had rebuilt the ship with a newer, OT-inspired look was really cool. Now the question once again becomes how does Boba go about retrieving his ship?

    Before I forget, it was great to have the good Professor back in working condition. Huyang is the most enjoyable droid creation I've seen in some time, though teasing us with the untold tale of Yoda's turn at the Gathering did make me want to strangle him like a Homer does a Bart.

    I felt that Obi-Wan Kenobi's final lightsaber tribute to the initiates was really well done and it served as a nice coda to our month-long adventure. Speaking of which, it seems that oftentimes a fourth installment to an arc only serves to stretch things to where it feels like too much. This apparently needn't be the case, though, as this week's episode demonstrates by turning the arc's 'Big Bad' on its head and giving us a welcome (if somewhat surprising) addition to the character of Hondo Ohnaka. All in all, the Young Jedi arc impressed me far more than I ever felt it had any right to going in.
     
  6. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 8, 2012
    In all seriousness, though, the Ahsoka/Grievous lightsaber fight was cash, but as for the rest of the episode, it was kinda "meh".
     
  7. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 24, 2004
    That's a pretty severe "fix" given that the kids were so much a part of the arc until their roles were somewhat reduced in the finale. Additionally, Christian Taylor's already gotten an arc "right" with the Mortis trilogy and this latest arc.
     
  8. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    I guess I may have to return to the unpopular opinions thread then. The other kids didn't really do anything or go anywhere. It really hurt the arc when I watched the episodes together and I was not alone in feeling that way, granted the guy I watched it with would agree with you about Mortis and Taylor. I get perfectly that one of the subplots was about coming together to work as a team and the whole circus thing wouldn't have worked out the same. It was a good subplot but it feels hollow with the lack of development Zatt, Byph, Ginodi, and Gunji got. It was pretty much the Katooni and Petro show.
     
  9. Varguitas

    Varguitas Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I'm pretty sure Ahsoka could have lasted longer against Grievous. I'm not sure why so many don't think that. That force push gave Grievous a hard time.
     
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  10. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    I thought Grievous for once did a good job bouncing back from the force push and really laying into Ahsoka. She was looking worn out toward the end of the fight. I was sorta expecting one of the kids, likely Petrol, to make the fatal mistake of trying to intervene before Slave I took off.
     
  11. Varguitas

    Varguitas Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 20, 2012
    That sounds pretty macabre. They porbably won't show that.
     
  12. Varguitas

    Varguitas Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I agree. She did a pretty good job.
     
  13. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    Longer, sure, but I'm pretty sure the producers were making a point of suggesting Ahsoka was wearing down in order to capitalize on the emotional payoff of Hondo's rescue, no?
     
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  14. Varguitas

    Varguitas Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Why does everyone keep thinking that Ahsoka somehow lost? Simply because he stepped on her it doesn't mean that. Besides she left towards the ship since they were all going to Obi-Wan's starship?
     
  15. Varguitas

    Varguitas Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 20, 2012
    What do you mean?
     
  16. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    I think TreborSabreon means the writer wanted to capitalize on Hondo rescuing Ahsoka and playing hero as she got more and more worn down. It really played into Katooni's character arc well when Hondo was appearing selfless. It really made sense for her to run. I suppose she might have won the fight but it would have been gambling (there is no bigger gamble than making one with your life right?) and I'm sure IU the thought of someone trying to intervene more directly and getting killed by Grievous over her, weighted pretty heavily in the decision to run.

    Also, the edit button is your friend. Please use it.
     
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  17. Paparazzo

    Paparazzo Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 31, 2011
    Doesn't feel like a month, wow.
     
  18. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    I'm not sure how else to say it, really. In universe, yeah, I agree with you that Ahsoka probably could have lasted for a bit longer against Grievous (I don't recall an imminent death blow, or anything). But from what I saw, Ahsoka was shown to be struggling with the General, beginning to wear down, even, and I think that the IRL decision to show things progressing as they did was made in order to ratchet up the tension for the audience before the big payoff comes in the form of Hondo and the Slave I rising up and saving the day. Sorry I wasn't more clear before. I didn't mean to make it confusing or anything.

    edit: whoops, See already beat me to it (and went and said it better than I did). :)
     
  19. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    Felt like a long month for me, but that isn't do much TCW's fault. -.-;
     
  20. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 11, 2011
    Did they need to? You mentioned Zatt's technobabble, but his dependence on technology was resolved in the first episode. Gungi overcomes his impatience and Byph overcomes his fearfulness, both long before the finale. As a collective, they face a challenge - not so much learning to work together in this episode as much as actually overcoming the major obstacles - and they get through it, as Obi-Wan highlights at the end. They are not static by any means.

    As a point of comparison, consider the clone medic Kix in the Umbara arc. His confrontation with Rex has a great deal of significance in The General, but in the later episodes he recedes into the background. He still gets some development as part of a collective (the firing squad, the whole 501st Legion during the confrontation with Krell). He simply has no need to take centre stage while Rex and Fives have their drama.

    Another thought on Petro: his independent streak proves to be valuable to the group in the final accounting. He may be arrogant and overbearing to some extent, but this is only in relative terms. He doesn't commit any dubious acts like he does in A Test of Strength with the crystal and the exploding lightsabre. He blags their way into the circus and proves to be the (mini) man with a plan. He may interrupt Obi-Wan with his ambitious ideas, but when the push comes to the shove, he falls in line behind people who know better than he does. Similar could be said about Ganodi and her attitude problem, which proves to be far from the worst thing ever in the grand scheme of things. I also expected there to be some resolution for Petro and Ganodi in the sense that they change their ways of thinking and behaving, but there didn't seem to be much need for that by the end of the arc. There were no verbal smackdowns needed to knock them down a few pegs because the dangerous situation does that anyway.

    That just left Katooni as the relative "screw-up", and her overcoming of this (plus her developing link with Hondo and the pirates) was really the only isolated youngling drama needed in this episode, IMO. Focus is good.

    I haven't watched the arc as a whole just yet, so I'm interested in why you guys felt this as a failing of the arc.

    I know, right? Grievous certainly manages to escape this duel with his limbs intact. It was a good balance between showing the sheer power of a competent Force-sensitive combatant and showing the raw physical menace of Grievous.

    IIRC, Byph was the one who was ready to charge at Grievous.

    EDIT: Episode Commentary is now up - From McQuarrie to Tennant: Creating Huyang
     
  21. Varguitas

    Varguitas Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Well yeah, I guess Ahsoka was worn down from being imprisoned by Hondo, so that was a factor. the General came to struggle somewhat if you think of it. But then again, he is more of a robot, so for those guys to get worn down is kind of harder.
     
  22. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2008
    Still think it was dumb and unrealistic for Obiwan and the clones to NOT arrest Hondo and his few men for acts of piracy. Hondo did not have many men, and was quite overpowered, best time for Obiwan to arrest him for his wrong doings, like murder, stealing, etc.


    But no, for some reason Jedi have no problems allowing pirates to commit future piracy.

    That would not happen in the real world.
     
  23. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Obi-Wan doesn't hold grudges which is probably why he didn't arrest him, and murder? Hondo killed droids, nothing else, he didn't kill any Younglings
     
  24. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2008
    He doesn't need to hold a grudge, im not asking him to. But justice still must be shown. After all, a cop can arrest a criminal without holding a personal grudge to him.

    But Hondo does not mind killing innocents as long as he can gain a profit (it sure is implied, after all he killed the previous circus dude). And he still steals. Heck even his men have that mentality. In "revival", before they knew Maul and Randy were on board that ship, Hondo's men were talking about killing everyone on board before stealing the supplies.

    Sure he didn't kill the Younglings, but he still attacked them.

    You seem to forget he is a PIRATE. Pirates are not nice people. And since Obiwan did not arrest him, he is going to go back to stealing which will endanger innocent life which can lead to even more death.
     
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  25. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    Yes, they needed to IMO. Something more needed to be done to make me care about the kids as a whole to deliver the message that the arc was trying to give about team work. I get what they were really saying now with this arc being geared more for kids after watching the four episodes together. This is one of the few times TCW has actually been trying to deliver a very clear lesson to its audience, in this case about coming together, growing up, and working as a team. In a sense this is closest thing to the Star Wars version of the "Wake up, Go to School, Save the World" trope.

    Really its not just overcoming faults but uncovering more personality in the younglings. Zatt was right back where he started by the 3rd episode staring at his Datapad /tablet and starting sentences with - "By my calculations." He moved backward. He could have been developed to learn how to dumb the technostuff and shown where he was of more importance to the group. Gunji really didn't do anything after he overcame his patience. He was just there. What does that add to the arc? The same story with Byph who if anything continued to be something like comic relief for the group. Ginodi was always saying stuff like "Who put you in charge?" or "We are all doomed!" she never grew past that.

    If your going to make me care about this group coming together, growing up, and learning to be a team you have to develop these kids beyond just a few words and a single personality trait. Now maybe I'm just over thinking this whole thing because I'm looking at a group of 4 guys and 2 girls put together. Very familiar territory to me.

    Yeah right but a key difference between Umbara and this Young Jedi arc is in Umbara Rex and Fives are firmly set up to protagonist and deuteragonist roles in the story of that arc. Jesse, Kix, Hardcase, Tup, Dogma, are all just supporting characters. Interestingly enough all those characters got more development and more personality than most of these kids did even so. Tup alone is many times more complex than Ginodi, Byph, Zatt, Gunji, and Petro put together. I felt like the Young Jedi arc was setting up all these kids to have a big role in the arc, particularly going through "The Gathering" and even "Test of Strength" where each of the younglings has a chance to demonstrate some kinda nice skill that contributed to the plot of the episode. After that everyone who isn't Katooni and Petrol got shoved in the back like the writer had no idea what to do with them. The arc decayed from having to many characters fighting for screen time.

    Petrol did add to the arc. He was purposely written to be a selfish, annoying little prick so he would be one of those characters you just want to hate on because its just fun. Face it. Its fun to want to beat this boy up. That is partly because he resembles our own hated inner insecurities because lets face it, I don't know about you but I can get up on my moral soap box but actually living it... doesn't happen. He's a an embodiment of that. Yet he had loyality, some brains, and a little bit of heart which still made him endearing. Sercretly at some point a flip switched and I rooted for him a little bit more although I wanted to keep hating. He was all in all a great edition to the arc and he is welcomed back. Petrol is more a nickname of affection from me. He still needed to get smacked just once and admit he was wrong because at the end of the day if this is supposed to be a kids show, it gets an F for actually teaching kiddies anything good with his story arc.

    Katooni was an okay character and I can see where folks would relate to her well. I just felt she got to much focus. Her drama was fine in this episode but its a damn shame she took the entire arc. Again, half the kids should have been put on a bus after "The Gathering". Petrol and Katooni should have been properly setup to be protagonist and deuteragonist like Rex and Fives were in Umbara.

    And don't misunderstand me. I didn't say this arc flat out failed. This isn't the worst arc TCW has ever put together. Its fun to watch. I could watch it again. Christian Taylor did a better job with this one than Mortis although it still just decayed as it dragged on. On there own each episode is close to a 9. But when watch together unlike both Umbara and the Rako Hardeen arc it just doesn't hit anything out of the park and is much weaker in the character driven department, perhaps I can't entirely hit the nail on the head with what I'm trying to say.

    I was glad to see a Grievous more impressive than what I'd been seeing. He's turned into a joke with me recently. The shot of him coming out of the thick dust at the kids was actually rather terrifying.

    Its possible trying to watch all the episodes together before watching this one for the first time was a mistake. I don't remember details at the very end of the battle very well and need to go back and rewatch. Its possible by the time I got to the end I was fatigued with the Young Jedi and ready for it to be over.

    I supposed if they were going to throw one of the little guys at Grievous it would have been Byph no matter what.