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TCW Episode The Clone Wars: Episodes 117 & 118: Blue Shadow Virus/The 1000 Moons Discussion Threads

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, Feb 10, 2009.

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  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
    How did they get Padme out of the lab without letting the virus out? The Monkey-Lizard did it!

    Why did the Confederacy just leave that energy web in orbit around Iego? The Monkey-Lizard, that's why.

    Why did the Seppies want to unleash the Blue Shadow Virus in the first place? It'd kill Monkey-Lizards, and without Monkey-Lizards, the Plot has no control over them and the bad guys would be free to win. Control the plot, control the galaxy. And Monkey-Lizards control the plot.
  2. AhsokaMiro

    AhsokaMiro Jedi Youngling star 3

    Apr 21, 2008
    There's a third option, though, with the multi-episode arcs. If you're winding up with too much plot, you don't have to contain it to one episode, and sometimes choosing to do a one, two, or three-parter is the most important decision.

    I actually don't think this needed to be a three-parter, though... I just think that Act 1 of episode 2 was pretty redundant. Those seven minutes of reboot could have allowed for a lot more breathing room on the Iego plot. And it really did need more Monkey Lizard.
  3. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Jun 24, 1999
    That's exactly my point. That is your opinion. My opinion is the opposite, I prefer a tight yet simple plot, with good character development and poignant action scenes, than one that tries to throw in everything and the kitchen sink and ends up feeling rushed, poorly explained and hollow of motivation. I think it is a gift to understand what kind of story your 22min allotment allows you to tell, and not try to cram a whole SW trilogy into that. Alternatively, they could do a better job with 2 or 3-parters, which really could allow them to tell a vaster story and still keep it tight, as long as they didn't insist on making each episode completely self-contained and lost time in redundant reboots of the storyline between episodes.

    And BTW, "Monkey-Lizard did it", LOVE IT![face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] That's officially the Star Wars version of the common fantasy plot-hole filler "It was magic".
    - Why didn't the imperial gunner fire at the escape pod? Monkey-lizard told him not to.
    - Why didn't Obi-Wan remember R2 on Tatooine? Remember that monkey-lizard-spiked drink? It was still playing havoc on Obi's mind 20 years later...
    - How could ewoks defeat the Imperial elite? Monkey-lizard was fighting on their side.
  4. Bowen

    Bowen Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Sep 6, 1999
    Almost nothing Star Wars fans ever mention is a plot hole. It's just useless nitpicking and debating for no reason at all. It's fun to ask some questions, but not in a "guilty until proven innocent" way, which is how many fans here seem to go about it.

    It's not a plot hole if something isn't explained, look up the definition. It's a plot hole only if there's really no reasonable way that could have happened, and it was just completely over looked. Like character A crashes his spacecraft, then later he hops in an undamaged spacecraft that looks exactly the same and seems to be the same exact craft. That could reasonably be called a plot hole. But something the writers just chose not to explain is no big deal. I mean do you want them to explain why such and such creature evolved, or why this planet developed X, Y, Z technology? Who cares, honestly. Give it a rest!
  5. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Jun 24, 1999
    Right, but at what point can we start calling something a plot hole then? By your logic nothing can be a plot hole, since it's always possible to come up with an explanation for anything, no matter how far-fetched it might be(hence the "Kowakian-Lizard did it"). And just to clarify again, I didn't call these particular issues plot-holes, merely poor plotting. For me the line separating acceptable and unacceptable lack of explanation is whether or not I'm pulled out of the enjoyment of watching a scene by the question "Hold on a sec, how/why did this happen?". I am certainly not saying that we need to be spoonfed explanations for everything, but a good storyteller/filmaker knows when the strength of an action piece or concept will negate the necessity of further explanation, and when a little extra morsel of logic will be necessary to make the story whole.
  6. WedgeWalker

    WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling star 2

    Aug 15, 2008
    Which makes it highly subjective. What story-related question pulls one person out of the moment may not pull another person.

    At what point can we move from subjective claims like "there were too many unanswered questions for my taste" to an objective claim like "that was bad plotting"? Where's that line? I don't know that there is one. And, for me, that's ok, since we're talking about art...which is subjective.

    Case in point. Gry, you said that the episodes ended up "feeling rushed, poorly explained and hollow of motivation." That's how they felt to you. And as you probably know, to me on the other hand, they didn't. Could there have been more explanation? Sure. (Would've probably needed another episode though). Would I have liked that? Sure. Could they have explained everyone's motivations? If they went to three episodes, yes. Would I have liked that? I'm not sure. Again, I don't mind the mystery.

    So who's right? Is Gry right, and the episodes felt "rushed, poorly explained and hollow of motivation," or am I right and the episodes felt brisk but enjoyable?

    We both are, in so far as that's how they felt to us. Beyond that, who knows.

    There are story questions that pull me out of the moment for a second sometimes ("weren't Anakin and Obi-Wan not drugged at the end of the last episode?"). So it's not like I'm immune to the stuff. It's just, I guess my threshold is at a different spot. The BSV/Moons stuff didn't really bother me. I did wonder about Typho coming up with info on the cure. But that's the only one. As for the others that y'all have mentioned, I don't mind the mystery.

    I totaly respect Gry's and others' sentiments about where they draw the line. You're entitled to that.

    But, personally, I'm glad the creators of the show don't share those sentiments. I do not want 4 seasons of simple story episodes. I like such episodes, don't get me wrong. But I also want those glimpses of the larger picture, even without that picture being explained.

    Which goes back to what was said earlier by GM:
    There are other outlets for that type of story telling. But TCW is different.

    Also...we have to remember that these episodes my have been initially written when the show was going to be longer than 22 minutes per episode.
  7. fanboyskywalker

    fanboyskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Apr 3, 2008
    How else do you think the good guys got the drop on Jabba in ROTJ? That damn traitorous monkey-lizard!

    Anyway, 1000 moons was in my top three if not my favorite episode so far. I think it's a beyond great episode, and I wouldn't feel that way if they had bogged it down with info I don't think was necc. And if they had expanded it to another episode it would have been too slow and too long. It was perfect the way it was, IMO. ANd I don't see how the plot could be simpler than the heroes rushing off to find the cure for a virus while their loved ones are dying back home...
  8. Ulic QelDroma

    Ulic QelDroma Jedi Youngling star 1

    Feb 10, 1999
    Loved the 1000 moons episode ... Jaybo and his droids ... Iego Angels ... Droll; some really nice ideas here.

    Oh yeah, and who could forget:
    "A great leap forward often requires taking two steps back."
    "And sometimes all it requires is the will to jump." -- Obi-Wan and Anakin

    Possibly the greatest lines in TCW to date!
  9. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    May 18, 2002
    I guess what I was originally complaining about was more the types of people that, for example, wanted Anakin to give his saber to Obi-Wan to give to Luke, so it "fit with the story", or that we specifically saw Kenobi "serving" Senator Organa in the Clone Wars.

    That's the connect-the-dots exposition that simply isn't needed.

    I agree that if there is an obvious flaw in the plot, it is annoying, but something like Iego didn't really bother me.

    1000 Moons reminded me of a planet you'd visit in KOTOR for some reason.

    At any rate, I'd love to get some behind-the-scenes info on how exactly the episodes are written; we know from Kevin Rubio that they go through a number of drafts, but I'm curious to see why they don't have the same writer/director team for the extended storylines, etc.
  10. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Jun 24, 1999
    WegdeWalker, please do not misunderstand me. Whatever I post around here is always simply my own personal opinion. If ever I made it seem like I thought what I was writing was some sort of universal truth, then it was certainly not intended. All my comments about shoddy storytelling and hollow motivations are purely reflective of my own taste in stories. I certainly realize and respect that other people absorb stories in different ways, are not bothered by things that drive me crazy and don't think much os aspects I hold sacred. What I don't like is when people start saying that I shouldn't be complaining. If I don't like, I complain. If I like, I praise. Those are my rights, and I don't see why that should upset anybody with a different opinion.

    That said, I did quite like 1000 moons. Or at least it was much better in relation to the previous episode...
  11. fanboyskywalker

    fanboyskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Apr 3, 2008
    Same here! I think in one of the forums somewhere I popped this question and found out they are releasing a Making Of book. Hopefully it goes into detail about the writing and rthe ideas and the genesis of the concepts for all the episodes. As well as concept art and ideas that didn't make it. Drool....

  12. WedgeWalker

    WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling star 2

    Aug 15, 2008
    Oh no, I didn't take it that way. No worries. Sorry if it seemed like I did.
  13. -Flyboys_Anonymous-

    -Flyboys_Anonymous- Jedi Youngling

    Jun 10, 2008
    I liked the two episodes. Iego looked pretty cool. The city on the planet looked alot like Coruscant.
  14. admiraidew

    admiraidew Jedi Youngling

    May 4, 2005
    where is the ForceCast for these episodes? I'm dying over here!

    I hope those monkey lizards didn't mess it up
  15. boletus

    boletus Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jun 2, 2008
    It's up now. They probably just held off until this week with a new episode coming out, plus they had a couple regular Force Casts, so that was nice... if you like the Force Casts.
  16. CloneCaptainRex

    CloneCaptainRex Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 31, 2008
    Bumping for Rob and Mani and me.

    CTV at seven. Be there.;)
  17. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jul 6, 2007
    I really liked this episode(#17) tonight. Though seperate threads would have been nice for those of us beyond the USA.........

    I really enjoyed that Padme and Jar Jar were the focus earky on and both new characters, Dr. Nuvo Vindi and Peppi Bow are nice additions to the universe. And the Bunny Droid from the film appears again too:p

    Ahsoka really shined in this one for me as well as the obvious hinting toward Padme and Anakin's relationship.

    "Aren't you glad I'm OK too"-Ahsoka to Anakin after he finds out Padme is alright.

    Nuvo Vindi was simply perfect as the raving mad scientist, great character. Thumbs up for me.:D
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