Full Series The Clovis Trilogy (6.05-6.07) Discussion Thread

Newsflash: Anakin and Padme do not have a healthy relationship.

And of course they were back together at the end.

Less now than he was before, but he still probably has access to a lot of wealth and resources. And he's still a founding member of the Confederacy and a member of the governing Council. I doubt they'd just kick him out.

And it's worth pointing out that the Banking Clan is still technically neutral, even though its stewardship has been given over to the Republic Chancellor. Palpatine will still be expected not to show favoritism to either side.

 

Having the knowledge their relationship isn't the healthiest is different from wanting to see episodes dedicated to showing that in all its ugliness, and your "of course" is not the same as the episode actually expending the dialogue to make it clear, which it did not. Padme says nothing about taking him back or being wrong to break up with him.

 

Well, it's a part of the story. An important part of the story. Their unhealthy relationship is the reason Anakin fell to the dark side. You'll have to expect that the ugliness will be shown every once in a while.

And the arc ends with Padme back in Anakin's arms saying she's sorry. Does Padme really need to say the words, "I am not divorcing you, Anakin. We are still married. We are husband and wife," in order to get the picture across?

 

I just think they shouldn't have included the line about breaking up to begin with, but since they did they should have explicitly resolved it, yes. It feels like a dangling thread to me.

 

They did resolve it. Padme is back in Anakin's arms at the end, saying she's sorry. I honestly can't understand how that isn't clear enough for you.

Melodramatic? That was the most rational thing Padme's ever done regarding her relationship with Anakin.

 

The_Phantom_Calamari what is the exact dialogue? I don't recall anything being said that was an explicit reference to that.

 

Does it matter? I can tell you right now that Padme didn't look at the camera and explain to the audience that she and Anakin weren't breaking up, so I really don't think it will change your mind.

 

I take your exaggeration of my position as a display of frustration with my disagreement. I simply think if she explicitly broke up with him they should have explicitly gotten back together, if you're having a hard time understanding that you can look up what "explicit" means.

 

I know exactly what explicit means, and what you mean by it. And I know nothing in that scene will satisfy you, because it contains no combination of the words "back,' "together," and "again". And I think you know what point I was trying to get across in my post, just as I know you're not literally exhorting me to pick up a dictionary.

In any case, here it is: Padme and Anakin are sitting on the ledge after Clovis fell to his death. Padme says, "I'm sorry, Anakin. I'm sorry," with tears in her eyes. She and Anakin clasp hands and Padme rests her head on his shoulder. End scene. Whether or not this juxtaposition of dialogue and imagery conveys anything whatever about the status of Anakin and Padme's relationship, I'll leave to the scholars to decide.

How is it melodramatic? It was the right call, and she was letting Anakin know that that's what she wanted.

And I am going to get upset at Anakin for beating a man so severely that he requires medical attention, when he was no longer threatening or making advances on Padme in any way. I mean, that's just not an okay thing to do.

Padme didn't set anything up. She was putting aside her personal differences with a man and working with him on a project, just as the Chancellor asked her to. Rush started making unwanted advances, which isn't cool, but the correct response to that would be for Anakin to tell him to stop and, if Rush refused, to physically remove him from Padme. Attacking him, escalating things to the point where a fight breaks out, and then beating him to a bloody pulp long after he was capable of fighting back was not the correct response, and is indicative of Anakin's severe rage issues.

And Rush wasn't the one who poisoned her. He was the one who risked his life to save her after he found out she was poisoned. I'm not saying Rush is a good guy, but he clearly has never had any intention of harming Padme, as should be obvious to all involved.

 

Padme: "We've already established that Clovis has a not-very-secret crush on me, which makes my incredibly badass force-user husband, who has always been possessive and unstable, absolutely burn with jealous rage. I must do some routine business with Clovis, and have to think of the best way to handle it without making the aforementioned situation worse. I know! I'll take Clovis on what is obviously a date to a plainly romantic event wearing a super-sexy dress!"

 

I don't know, I guess they took a break. I didn't know seeing an opera with someone was tantamount to marital infidelity.

As to your second question: Because it made it easier to spy on him. And that was very clear, so I'm not sure why you're even asking the question.

Yes, the purpose of the line was indeed to create drama. Such lines abound in works of dramatic fiction.

And her husband just beat a man nearly to death in a fit of rage. It wasn't the time for subtlety. It turns out acting like a violent maniac makes people not want to be around you.

Wearing a dress and going to a show with someone doesn't automatically mean you want to sleep with them. Especially since Padme made it clear to Clovis that she wasn't interested in him, at all.

I really don't think Padme expected Anakin to react the way he did. She probably knew it might make him mad, but I don't think she had any idea that her husband's anger would inevitably lead to him trying to murder Clovis. Whatever Padme's mistakes may have been, she is not responsible for what ultimately ended up happening. Anakin is.

 

It's not about whether Clovis was wrong, that's obvious, it's about whether Anakin was right which is a separate issue. There are other ways of handling things than beating someone nearly to death.

 

This is a little off of the current topic regarding Anakin and Padme's relationship, but regarding the arc's chronological placement, it really does seem like this should come before Satine's death. I loaded up the subtitles on the episode, and Obi-Wan says "You've met Satine". I think most people would refer to meeting someone who was deceased as "You met Satine" or "You had met Satine". I guess it's now officially after S5, though, so it's not a big deal.

In regards to the Padme/Anakin thing, I liked seeing Anakin get dark and a little more like the movie Anakin we know (In fact, one reason that I didn't watch the Clone Wars for years was because I thought it clashed too much to have a constantly moody, upset Anakin in the movies and then have a light-hearted, Han Solo-style Anakin in the TV show, so the few times we see him get angry and evil are welcome to me. There's also no doubt that their relationship in this arc was very melodramatic, but that's how it was in the movies too so it doesn't bother me much. (In fact I find that "Are you blinded by love" balcony scene in RoTS more cringe-worthy than this)

 

watching this arc again I am beginning to love it as one of the deepest and most important, OK ...Anakin on a Federal, Galactic, Big Picture Level is the hero always true and righteous while Clovis is the scum and traitor ...meanwhile on the small personal human level Anakin is the vile, possessive, abusive personality while Clovis is pure and benevolent in his love, notice how even as he holds a gun to her head he turns to shield her from the broken glass and then plummets to his death to save her, while we all know what Anakin ends up doing to her...

 

Good points there.

Personally, I always wondered why people even expected Anakin to be the mature one in this relationship. As a jedi, he was shielded of emotions, obviously no teaching or friendly advise could have prepared him to a male-female relationship, let alone a marriage. With Padme being years older, she should have been the one guiding the whole relationship with experience and knowledge - and yet, we see in TCW that she fails terribly. Once tricked by Clovis, she exposes herself to his ways again, despite the warnings of his husband, and the events of their last encounter. Everybody knows and feels that Clovis cannot be trusted, yet she insist othervise. Clovis makes a move on her again, her husband catches it (ang even gets mocked by Clovis), and even though everyone can see what is Clovis up to, she fails to realise his interntions - again. Then she leaves with him to his planet, where Clovis betrays the ways of the republic, and who is she turning to for help? Oh yes, the jedi council and Anakin, who tried to protect her all along.

So I think Anakin gets little credit in this relationship and I'm stunned he is always seen the bad guy when it's almost Padme every time who behaves impossibly.

 

Compared to most of the other political episodes this arc was the best. I loved how they made Coruscant, it looked even closer to the way the planet was shown in the movies. Also liked the separatist senator, it was a nice touch to show that not all of them are villains. Even more, despite the fact that his role was a small one he seemed more reasonable than his Republic counterparts. Their roles were only to shout insults and do nothing else. This show is doing a fine job promoting the Empire as the better alternative (which I like ). I didn't mind the relationship issues and the way they were represented as there is nothing much that you can show in 20 something minutes per episode in a cartoon.

Also a nice touch with the quotations going up and down in Clovis' office.

Loved the voices over the comms during the dogfight.

I had a couple of problems with the arc though. First why is Padme still credible as she stole this information covering it with an act of terrorism. I might not be a legal expert but I don't think that the Banking Clan if it was done in real life wouldn't bring an army of lawyers to prove that Padme is actually the criminal here. They just release her with the promise that she won't do nothing illegal anymore.

Also if I understood correctly Scipio is an important banking hub, such disruptions in the system could prove pretty costly.

Padme didn't mourn her handmaiden's (?) death. She just shrugged it off.

Anakin and Padme don't realize that their marriage is not very secret... Probably if they revealed it there probably wouldn't have been anyone surprised.

 

So, what. Was Padme trying to get into Clovis's pants? Was she intentionally being a tease because she's just a terrible shrew who wants to torture her husband? Or, maybe...she was taking a break and going to a show with a man she actually knows pretty well, and yet has no romantic intentions towards, which is actually a pretty non-controversial thing to do.

Well, your opinions on the morality of espionage on behalf of a government are noted, I guess.

I thought it was pretty shocking, personally. It was a pure demonstration of brutal rage on the part of a character we've come to identify as a hero. He was pounding a man to death over the distressed cries of his protesting wife. I don't see where the humor comes into this portrayal of violence.

Chalk it up to savvy diplomatic maneuvering on the Republic's part and a realpolitik realization on the Banking Clan's part that charging the Republic Senator who exposed their wrongdoing will only make things worse for them when the truth inevitably comes out and they're the ones being charged.

It happens in Star Wars. Notice Leia doesn't shed a tear for her planet onscreen, and neither does Luke for Biggs.

I'm certain their marriage is still a secret. Rush Clovis just knows Padme so well from when they were lovers that he could tell, especially when his presence was causing Anakin to be more reckless than usual.

It seems it's an open secret among at least the Jedi that Anakin has a thing for Padme, but they'd never think he was so reckless as to secretly marry her.

 

For me at least moral implications definitely impact my ability to be entertained.

 

Tom and Jerry, The Three Stooges etc are so much fun to watch.