Amph The Comic Book Character Draft ReduX [Ed: That's #10 for those keeping score]

Agreed. Stone wouldn't do anything, Ultron can keep his adamantium body malleable it should work on stone as well.

PS: Check out the last edit about Cyborg Superman (sans rings) vs Ganthet (with ring)

 

Follow the hank vs Ganthet fight to the end.

1) Hank got the drop on Ganthet. Until then he didn't possess and alpha lantern battery.
2) once he repowered, he and another lantern took down hank.

As to your crossover argument, read up on surfer after his latest power upgrade.

Also Wiccan with doom and reed to guide him can seriously hurt Ultron while the big brains finish him.

At work. More later.

 

Reed can't guide crap on magic...

• Shine On You Crazy Diamond - Temporarily encased Ultron in a diamond.

that is the most powerful spell she's ever cast after reading through all if them on her wiki
http://marvel.wikia.com/Staff_of_One

 

Doom won't be doing anything if he is wearing armor. Ultron has dominated Extremis armor in mere seconds, Cyborg Superman has dominated Steel's armor with no effort at all. Armored beings go down hard against both these guys.

Ultron is used to fighting and has beaten Thor while Thor was trumped with a better magic user than Wiccan.

Despero has beaten better mental/physical trumps than Xavier/Captain Marvel, better by far.

Cyborg Superman can drain rings, can control tech (anything Reed brings, Doom and Nova). Your biggest brains are neutralized from the very start. Cyborg Superman has also become far more dangerous since that crossover Minch, that goes both ways.

Extant can very quickly deage or age humans.......Doom....Reed....Hal....Xavier, all of them are subject to being aged and there isn't really anything they can do to stop it.

Captain Atom can at the least tie up Surfer for a good while, giving my team a lot of time to deal with other threats.

Martian Manhunter is more than a match for Xavier, his feats are on par there.....as if Despero needed any kind of help with that....or he could just mentally dominate Captain Marvel since that happens often enough in the comics. Between the phalanx virus and MM one of these tactics will ensure that Captain Marvel is fighting for me rather than you.

Wonder Woman is my magic neutralizer, she has a great resistance to magic and has fought far better wielders of it (usually gods) than Wiccan and Nico.

Omni Man and Orion are physical brutes, which can be amped up greatly by what I have shown on Captain Atom. His mere touch granted others limited matter manipulation and energy absorption powers. In regards to Orion specifically any character who can take out avatars of Darkseid is not to be dismissed, he has done this 3 times to date if I am not mistaken.

Also consider his technology, the astro harness is an amazing piece of technology that pumps out planet breaking forces provided by the astro force, which is basically coming directly from the source wall. The motherbox is also there, and based on the technological genius of Ultron and Cyborg Superman, as well as the rate at which they can build, this tech will be put to GREAT use.

To compare the technological genius of Reed/Doom and Nova to Ultron and Cyborg Superman is insane, especially when you consider that Cyborg Superman can rebuild an entire body in less than a few seconds. What Reed and Doom know is fine, but how fast can they put things together? Also, what would be the point when they are facing technopaths on a level unmatched by any in DC and Marvel?

Most of the opposing team can be countered by at least one person on my team. Cohesion? Who needs cohesion when you have Phalanx Selects who retain all their powers and abilities? The selects were not impeded by cohesion, nor were they less of a threat....in fact they were greater because their morality was suppressed.

 

Yeah I skipped most of that. But in a war of technopaths vs Doom and Reed prepped, I'm taking the preps every time unless I have good reason not to. And I haven't seen it. Prep of that caliber usually beats whatever "pathy" it's facing or at least stalemates it. If Ultron dominated the Extremis armor when Iron Man had some reasonable preparation for him that's one thing. But usually that's not the case. I'm betting, although obviously I could be proved wrong, that Ultron had the prep there if anyone. Probably the same thing with Cyborg and Steel, I'd guess as well.

Not necessarily saying Minch's team wins as I haven't mindlessly popped stuff into my comp, but I've had beef with this Super-Ultron that somehow got into this draft the whole time. I mean he's great, but when does he ever face his opponents actually prepared for him?

Really, I'd like an answer. I don't actually know.

 

Reed can't guide crap on magic
Reed is a brilliant scientist and tactician. He can use magic like any other tool. Tell Wiccan or Nico what needs to be done. For example, maybe he gives Wiccan the name of an element or Nico a compound. Perhaps he provides the chemical makeup. Perhaps he simply tells them weak areas to exploit on some opponents. The fact is Reed can offer plenty with time to prepare. It doesn't just have to be technology. Additionally not all Reed's tech needs to be smart. It can be a simple as point and shoot, no computer required. I don't recall ever seeing Ultron control firearms. So the idea that he can control ALL tech is not quite the same. Reed is more than brilliant enough to think of a way around it. Perhaps magic. Perhaps cosmic power? Surfer and Doom can help him there.

Doom won't be doing anything if he is wearing armor. Ultron has dominated Extremis armor in mere seconds, Cyborg Superman has dominated Steel's armor with no effort at all. Armored beings go down hard against both these guys.

So we assume Doom wears his armor. But what if he didn’t? I can find you those scans of naked Doom killing animals and Doom literally surviving hell. Perhaps Doom simply decides to use magic as his armor. He has the time to evaluate that his opponents can exploit technology but are rather lacking in the magic department. That gives him the advantage. He doesn't necessarily need his tech armor either. He could go old school if needed. Or, Doom could take his chances if he felt like it. But Doom learned from Morgana Le Fey. Next to Strange, he's the most experienced and skilled sorcerer in the Marvel Universe. The idea that he'll simply walk in vulnerable is simply not something Doom is ever known for. Doom, like Reed has plans on top of plans and contingency on top of contingency.

Ultron is used to fighting and has beaten Thor while Thor was trumped with a better magic user than Wiccan. And Ultron attempted to attack Galactus and had his battery drained. And Doom rebuilt him not once but twice. Between Surfer and Doom there’s plenty there. Adding in that Ultron is vulnerable to magic and that Thor knows this and with Doom’s help or even Xavier’s tp helping Wiccan and Nico, Ultron can be dealt with by several combinations of people. We already went through how Reed and Doom can do it with 24 hours of prep. We went over how Hank beat him with that anti-metal Justice found in the Savage Land. There are ways to defeat Ultron. And this team can do it with the prep time they have.

Despero has beaten better mental/physical trumps than Xavier/Captain Marvel, better by far.
So let him take on Surfer. Another strong in telepathy. Or let him bash on Thor with Xavier helping to shield him from mental attacks. Or let him take on Nova with Marvel or GL’s help. Or let him take on Doom by himself. Let him take on Reed even again with Xavier's tp shielding or perhaps Doom's magic shielding.

Cyborg Superman can drain rings, can control tech (anything Reed brings, Doom and Nova). Your biggest brains are neutralized from the very start. Cyborg Superman has also become far more dangerous since that crossover Minch, that goes both ways.
Yes. And guess who else controls tech and power drains? Surfer! As to that ring drain. I’ll post scans shortly. That was an advantage to prep. Hank got the drop on Ganthet and the lanterns. He drained Ganthet’s ring though it’s never clear if he drained his Guardian abilities. What is clear is he kept Ganthet there partly because he had the Alpha Lanterns as hostages and Ganthet cared. Given how quickly Ganthet and the lanterns took him down when he had lost the element of surprise, I wouldn’t put too much stock in ring draining. Not to mention that the Lanterns could have their lanterns with them for this match and Hank doesn’t get his rings and you have no lantern they’d need to worry about. Not to mention Surfer could manipulate the battery or Doom could. Or Nico or Wiccan. That’s not to say Cyborg Supes is easily handled. But don’t count Ganthet and Hal our so easily either. I don't remotely see how my big brains are out. See above on Reed and ways around your apparent tech domination.



Extant can very quickly deage or age humans.......Doom....Reed....Hal....Xavier, all of them
are subject to being aged and there isn't really anything they can do to stop it.
Yes there is. Surfer again. Surfer once aged a planet to death. Surfer affects time as well. And if he gets up against Ganthet, he’s got a long way to go to deage him. Ganthet would likely handle Extant and get his natural hair color back to boot. There’s also the fact that magic can age and Doom could do that. Or perhaps Doom uses Nico’s staff if she can’t and simply makes them age back. Several options here.

Captain Atom can at the least tie up Surfer for a good while, giving my team a lot of time to deal with other threats.
Maybe. Or maybe he deals with Nova or a magic user. Maybe he deals with Reed or Xavier. Or Hal or Ganthet. Or the magic kids. Also keep in mind Surfer has depowered people too. And atom can’t drain the PC for long or well. Surfer always has more.

Martian Manhunter is more than a match for Xavier, his feats are on par there.....as if Despero needed any kind of help with that....or he could just mentally dominate Captain Marvel since that happens often enough in the comics. Between the phalanx virus and MM one of these tactics will ensure that Captain Marvel is fighting for me rather than you.
Unless Xavier or Ganthet or Surfer shielded him. Don’t forget Surfer has telepathy as well. Or Doom and magic again. Or the kids.
Wonder Woman is my magic neutralizer, she has a great resistance to magic and has fought far better wielders of it (usually gods) than Wiccan and Nico. So let her fight Thor or Marvel or deal with Doom. Reed can outsmart her and his own powers make it hard for her to really hurt him. He can absorb most of her blows afterall. Reed could likely keep her occupied for a while on his own. Remember, Batman has taken her out with his own brains and tech. Tower of Babel. Reed's more brilliant and he could use tech or he could use someone else to help him like Xavier or Hal. Captain Marvel and her have matched up fairly evenly if I recall correctly

Omni Man and Orion are physical brutes, which can be amped up greatly by what I have shown on Captain Atom. His mere touch granted others limited matter manipulation and energy absorption powers. In regards to Orion specifically any character who can take out avatars of Darkseid is not to be dismissed, he has done this 3 times to date if I am not mistaken.
And Surfer and PC, and Wiccan and transferring his magic, And Nova and the GL rings. Plenty of stuff my team can share too. And I’m happy to show scans of all the above.

Also consider his technology, the astro harness is an amazing piece of technology that pumps out planet breaking forces provided by the astro force, which is basically coming directly from the source wall. The motherbox is also there, and based on the technological genius of Ultron and Cyborg Superman, as well as the rate at which they can build, this tech will be put to GREAT use.
Great. Nova Force. Power Cosmic. Ganthet can crack the planet in half with a thought. Doom. And a lot of good any of that tech is if Surfer or Ganthet or Hal manipulate it. Remember all three can do matter manipulation too. So you have Atom, I have those three. Additionally Surfer could control it. And Orion takes out Darkseid. Doom takes out Galactus and Odin. Reed fights off cosmic threats. Ganthet and Hal police the universe. etc etc.

To compare the technological genius of Reed/Doom and Nova to Ultron and Cyborg Superman is insane, especially when you consider that Cyborg Superman can rebuild an entire body in less than a few seconds. What Reed and Doom know is fine, but how fast can they put things together? Also, what would be the point when they are facing technopaths on a level unmatched by any in DC and Marvel?
If only they had some people who could speed things up? Perhaps someone who could create machinery like Surfer? Perhaps someone who can create anything with a thought? Like Ganthet or Hal? Or perhaps someone who could just will something to happen? Like Wiccan. Also, Ultron and Cyborg Superman have a lot of knowledge. Reed is the smartest Human. And Doom is the second best in magic knowledge. But consider what Worldmind packs on the knowledge of the Marvel Galaxy. Consider the GL rings and their knowledge. And consider Ganthet and his centuries of knowledge. You do not have me beat on brains. You have your supercomputers. I have mine.

Most of the opposing team can be countered by at least one person on my team. Cohesion? Who needs cohesion when you have Phalanx Selects who retain all their powers and abilities? The selects were not impeded by cohesion, nor were they less of a threat....in fact they were greater because their morality was suppressed.


You need cohesion. Why? Do you think Ultron will work with anyone? Where’s the evidence of that? Ultron wants to be number one. Secret War is a great example of that. And Despero and Manhunter working together? Really? Most of all, you don’t have someone that will make all of these strong personalities fall in line. Ultron and Cyborg Supes could just as easily turn on each other. Your team might just as easily harm their own members trying to get to my people in a battle. You have a lot of power. But you are severely lacking in magic. And everything else, I can at least match you at. I have magic. I have cohesion. I have brains to spare. We had the Ultron match. You lost when Reed and Doom had 24 hours and just themselves. Now they have their whole team. Cyborg Superman won’t have the element of surprise against Ganthet. My team was made to benefit from prep time and what they can do in 24 hours as a full team will rival what your group can do because mine is a much more cohesive unit.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/mr-fantastic/4005-2151/
He also indicates that he can not understand magic

Kinda hard to tell someone how to use something you don't understand...

 

I dunno, I'm going out on a limb that says that if Doom and Reed are cooperating, prepped and in a team battle (when they've proven they could do it before) that he could get a handle on it with Doom and Reed building something that's gonna F his S up!

 

Doom yes... Reed no... that's all I'm saying when it comes to Reed and Magic.

 

What Minch is saying is he doesn't need to understand magic, just tell them words that mean something so they can cast a wider variety of spells. At least that's what I think he's saying.

I don't, however, recall Surfer ever using TP in an offensive or interfering manner.

 

I'm saying is that's not how the staff works, and things could go awry. Because the staff of one is also a plot device.

• Zombie Not - Intended to reverse the effects of Val Rhymin's zombie-creating spell; instead caused all the zombies in the vicinity to form one big zombie - a zombie knot.

• Chill Out - Intended to make the Runaways and Young Avengers stop fighting; instead froze the Hostel. Used a second time to attack Hazmat with water.

 

Yes. Yes, half these characters are plot devices, that's why I keep wanting them out the draft. But that, um, how is that not how the staff works?

 

He could tell her something technical, and it could backfire. He doesn't understand magic. Doom on the other hand would probably instinctively know exactly what to say. I think the staff in his hands would be the best anyway.

 

At the very least, it doesn't do any worse than they would do by themselves. If he says a different word for ice, it's still ice. It could just as easily do something better than he thought as well. Not that I think they're that great.

 

Well, the time has come. I won't be here much after tonight, so whoever wins will have to send their numbers in to the judges. I'm going to be gone and super busy for about six weeks. Good luck to whoever that is.

In the meantime, I guess I can judge some team battles, which I believe to be nail-biters. I'd like to get more in depth, but I just haven't got the time. Initially I though I was going to vote for Kalar, because of those top four, but they're up against a lot of power. Doomsday is being misrepresented, I think, as being single-mindedly going after Prime, plus it seems to be forgotten that he's pretty difficult to stop. For absolutely anybody on the list. And while Prime is susceptible to being drained, it's never been easy for anyone. That's still a big problem. And the two major problems of X-man and Thanos are not easy to overcome. The team is better put together, however, and that can help; and Warlock, Quasar, and Genis are absolutely no joke. So. Now I don't know who I want to vote for. I think the better team wins this one, but I struggle to think of who would actually survive. Blowhard.

The other one is close, but the biggest problem that I don't see an answer for is Extant. The chances of some magic spell taking him out are less than him having a major impact on the huge number of humans on the other team. I'd say more but I'm out of time. Heartbreak.

I...actually, I would really need to see how Warlock does against Thanos, but I haven't looked for that yet. Kind of still undecided about that one.

 

Ok, lets be realistic about prep. It is 24 hours, assuming that no sleep or rest is needed prior to a fight, lets assume that. So, Reed and Doom have 24 hours to analyze their opponents, then create a plan, then actually figure out what kind of technological item is going to best advance their plans. After all that, they then have to actually build something.

Cyborg Superman on the other hand builds entire highly advanced robotic bodies in mere seconds.

See a bit of a difference there?

Also, I am going to go and find about a dozen or so technopathy feats and post them here. There is no evidence at all to show that the technology that Doom and Reed will build is somehow immune to these guys when NOTHING else has been shown to resist them. That is an absurd suggestion that has no bearing in anything we have ever seen.

Minch:

I am going to correct you on Ultron because you are completely wrong, he does not want to be #1, he wants to exterminate organic life. During his time with the Phalanx he admitted the benefit of blended organic and cybernetic life, thus the reason he was working with the Phalanx and utilizing selects. Ultron showed his capability to utilize teams in Annihilation: Conquest. Cyborg Superman and Ultron would get along fine.

If you read Conquest, which was actually very good, you will see that his Selects were 100% on his side....even if unwilling. They had no choice, NONE. They did exactly what was needed for the betterment of the Phalanx.

24 hours of prep goes A LOT further when you have people who can actually build at amazing speeds, you don't have that. You also have not a single shred of proof that anything Doom and Reed can come up with will resist technopathy.

I will be back in a bit with a lot of technopathy scans.

 

Versus Armor

Hank vs Steel:
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2463165
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2463166
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2463168

Ultron vs Iron Man's Extremis (by the way, this armor is >> Doom's armor)

http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Hacking/HacksExtremis.jpg.html
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/HacksExtremis2.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/HacksExtremis3.jpg

Ultron in control of ALL of Iron Man's old armors:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsArmors.jpg.html
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsArmors2.jpg

Ultron instantly draining Iron Man's armor:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Weapons/U9Drainarmor.jpg.html

Ultron controlling Iron Man's heart:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/ControlArmor2.jpg


Misc. Technopathy

Hank controlling a planet of over a billion robotic lifeforms:
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2467544

Hank controls the JL watchtower:
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2468076

Ultron controlling the Avengers Infinite Mansion (the physics or properties of the mansion are different than the standard Earth dimension, in that Salvation Two is said to be unable to exist anywhere but in the mansion.) :
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/HacksInfiniteMansion.jpg

and all the Jocasta sentient robots inside of it:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsJocastaArmy.jpg.html

Controls Stark Tech weather satellites with ease:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Hacking/Hacksweathersatellite.jpg.html

Ultron infects the entire Kree Empire through their warnet in a matter of minutes:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/PhInfection2.jpg.html
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/PhInfection3.jpg.html

and through that infection also gains control of the Kree army:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/InfectKree2.jpg.html

The Kree assumed that negative zone tech would be immune to Ultron, it wasn't:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/Alientech.jpg.html

Nova's Worldmind confirming the Empire's corruption in mere minutes, telling Nova to get the hell out of there so he won't also become infected:
http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/Minuteconquest.jpg.html

Via Ultron's control of the Kree he creates the Babel Spire to put Kree space out of phase with the rest of the universe, something that it is said that Galactus is not even capable of: Ultron has created mini Babel Spires as well!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/BabelSpire7.jpg

Ultron controls other sentient robotic beings such as:

Victor Mancha:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsVictor.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsVictor2.jpg

The entire Phalanx race (all powerful technopaths in their own right):
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsPhallanx.jpg

Praxagora (a powerful technopath):
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Hacking/ControlsPraxagora2.jpg


Durability

Hank surviving Omega Beams:
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2464242

Magic doesn't work so well against Hank: In Superman/Batman Annual #5: Hank fights ROD Doomsday. While the fight is going on, the Watchtower registers Henshaw and his presence as rogue Kryptonian activity and activates the default safety measure: a magic cocktail created by Zatanna and Dr. Fate. It weakens Supergirl severely but does not even slow down Henshaw.

Army of Ultrons (at least 458 of them)

Example 1:

http://s204.photobucket.com/user/Enteithegreat/media/Ultron/Tech/Ultronarmy.jpg.html
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/UltronArmy2.jpg

Example 2:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/UltronsVsAvengers.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/UltronsVsAvengers2.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/UltronsVsAvengers3.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/UltronsVsAvengers4.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Fights/UltronsVsAvengers5.jpg

Creating an army of Phalanx selects (PERFECT COHESION!):

Gamora:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/SelectGamora.jpg

Ronan:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/SelectRonan.jpg

Super Adaptoid:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/SelectSuperadaptoid.jpg

Resurrected Supremor: So even the dead can become selects of Ultron!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/Supremorselect.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/Supremorselect2.jpg

Drax as a select:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/MiniSpire.jpg

Tech as a weapon

Technovirus immediately requires Worldmind to divert 20% of it's power into containment:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Ultron/Tech/Phalanx/Virustouch.jpg

The only way to actually kill Ultron is to contain his essence so that he can't jump, and then destroy his body (in Annihilation it took a prepared trump of Wraith, Nova, Quasar (Phyla) and Warlock. Same goes for Cyborg Superman, he can essence jump at will and every time his body is destroyed he jumps into some other tech and just rebuilds.

Are you telling me that Reed and Doom, in a mere 24 hours, will just magically come up with something that can't be controlled? That is the biggest crock of BS I have heard in a LONG time. There isn't one thing you can show that puts Reed or Doom tech over what Ultron and Hank are doing to tech, it is just baseless prep love that has no foundation in fact or feats.

 

If Extant is your main reason.

Surfer. Look at what he's done with the PC:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t459252.html

In one instance, a mentally unbalanced surfer kills a population by evolving it rapidly with his healing abilities. Not only that but surfer has healed thousands simultaneously. At most, he needs to worry about 10. Also keep in mind Ganthet and how old he is along with the power he packs.

Surfer's transmutation abilities alone are impressive. Honestly, how does Extant beat Surfer? If it comes down to Extant. Ultron? Look at what Surfer's done to machines. Look at what Galactus did to Ultron. Cyborg Supes? Surfer could transmute him among other options. Atom, Surfer could drain him or depower him. Or transmute him. He's done all of the above to people before. Despero? Same deal. All you really need to do is look at what the Surfer has done with the Power Cosmic in short amounts of time, add in the fact he has a worldmind, ganthet and hal's rings, reed's genius and doom's. And think of what this team can do in 24 hours.

 

At the same time you must consider that while Ultron alone can handle anything Reed and Doom bring to a fight (still highly annoyed at Ultron losing vs a prepared Reed/Doom trump ) you also have Cyborg Superman there with a HUGE assist. All tech is either useless or advantaging my own team, the best thing Reed and Doom can do is to take tech out so it doesn't hamper their team.

Ultron routinely fights the entire Avengers team: Thor/Iron Man/Scarlet Witch/Hulk/Wonder Man as well as Cosmic trumps: Nova/Warlock/Quasar/Guardians of the Galaxy.

Cyborg Superman routinely fights JL trumps: Superman/Eradicator/Hal Jordan/Martian Manhunter/Eradicator/Super Girl/Wonder Woman. He has also drained power rings with ease, give him and Ultron 24 hours to perfect it and it will be even easier.

Despero routinely fights JL trumps: Superman/Captain Marvel/Wonder Woman/Martian Manhunter


Hank, Ultron and Despero alone take out the best on Minch's team: Thor, Hal, Nova, Doom, Reed and Xavier.
Captain Atom neutralizes Silver Surfer for a long time, long enough to keep him out of the mix.
Wonder Woman is more than capable of taking out Nico and Wiccan, they are small time compared to the magic wielding gods she has fought and defeated.
Extant takes every human on the team and ages them. Xavier, gone. Nico, gone. Wiccan, gone. Doom, gone. Reed, gone. Nova, gone.

 

I don't think I've mentioned tech above point and shoot guns or magical or power cosmic enhanced weaponry. In fact, the bulk of my argument is Power Cosmic and Magic. Doom and Surfer are your most deadly opponents and I don't see how Ultron stops either one.

Your entire argument hinges on Captain Atom stopping Surfer. But who actually defeats him? And again, Surfer has healed beings simultaneously and fast. That's not to mention the immortals like Thor and Ganthet. Or ressurections like Nico. Captain Atom? One good mental blast from Xavier perhaps? Or Surfer simply goes for depowering or transmutation immediately. Given that Hal and Marvel have worked with Atom, it's not hard to guess what they'll bring to my team in strategy.

Surfer has matched power levels of Thanos at his weakest state. And this is just on Surfer alone. I'm not discussing the numerous things about Doom as we've discussed that to death as well.



Also, the idea that Reed focuses on tech alone: Richards possesses a mastery of mechanical, aerospace andelectrical engineering, chemistry, all levels of physics, and human and alien biology.

There is plenty of science Reed can bring that doesn't include computerized devices. There is more than enough magic Doom can bring that does the same. Doom is plenty potent here with magic alone.

 

What is Doom going to be doing Minch? You keep saying Doom is this huge threat, how does he get past his armor being controlled? What is he doing when his armor is either killing him or imploding and becoming an enhanced version of Ultron just like Ultron did to the far superior Extremis armor?

That is something that is never answered, Doom is literally wrapped in the worst possible thing for this fight....and yet you persist that this is a non issue.

I don't want to hear that Doom and Reed will just POOF come up with something, can you even find one example of anyone in DC or Marvel countering technopathy from Ultron or Cyborg Superman? They have only 24 hours, and you always suggest that no matter how many things they need to counter they will be able to come up with something. What are they going to come up with, and actually build, in 24 hours? 1 day isn't a lot of time to plan, invent, and build a super weapon that will just instantly take out the biggest threats in DC and Marvel.....and even if they do odds are it is going to be technology based.

So how will they do what nobody seems capable of doing and not only stop Ultron, but also Cyborg Superman? While at the same time try to figure out how to stop technopathy FAR above the level of Earth tech so that Doom isn't dead in the first few minutes of the fight? Oh yeah, also stop themselves from being aged into dust. And oh yeah, also stop Despero. Oh, and not to mention the entire bottom half of my team....which really aren't slouches either by the way.

24 hours Minch, that is A LOT of weight on the shoulders of so few, who build at the rate of normal humans. Now compare that to 24 hours of Ultron and Cyborg Superman, who build at super rates....and who know not only the technology of Earth....but of entire universes.

It is a funny thing about Earth tech, recently Tony Stark went to work with the Guardians of the Galaxy, and Rocket Raccoon constantly bags on Stark about the primitive nature of all his amazing tech. Rocket mocks Stark for his armor, the alloy used (regular Badoon soldiers broke his armor to pieces, rocket fixed it with a little tool in a few panels), his communication capabilities, etc....etc.

Earth tech isn't all that in Marvel you know. Want scans to back that up? I have the past 2 issues which clearly show multiple examples of Rocket mocking Stark's tech.

PS: Guardians of the Galaxy has been great lately, highly recommended.

Nova is also a HUGE threat to himself in this fight, his entire power is technology based. We saw what Ultron did to him, Nova temporarily became a Select of Ultron before the Worldmind put Richard into a coma to stop it. Nova at best is running on 1/2 power, at worst is in complete control of Ultron and Cyborg Superman. If that isn't kosher with you, consider Captain Atom simply draining him.....unless he is too busy keeping Surfer tied up....which he is capable of doing.

Extant is there to age people, Nova.....Reed.....Doom.....Xavier....Wiccan.....Nico. All are dust in mere moments. You have NOTHING to stop that. They are human, you have not a single person on your team that has any power over time like Extant does.

That is 1/2 of your team subject to the power of Extant! You have NO counter for that.

The best laid plans sometimes fall apart when faced with great counters, your teams greatest weaknesses are humans and technology. There really isn't any other team in this draft built to deal with humans and technology like mine.

At the same time you also have Despero running loose, and I have a hunch that based on his complete domination of the Superman/Wonder Woman/Captain Marvel/Power Girl trump he is physically up to the challenge of the Surfer. There is also the fact that Cyborg Superman has physically handled Supergirl/Superman & Eradicator at the same time, as well as a canon showing of Silver Surfer being able to do no harm at all to him in their fight.

You have a great team that has great strengths, and is more than the sum of it's parts. Unfortunately what gives it such strength is technology and humans, and when you can instantly remove them from the fight that hurts.

You are completely ignoring the 24 hour limit on prep, all these things that Reed or Doom are capable of is still limited by 24 hours. If this was a week or two, different story entirely. If they were not human and subject to immediate death by Extant, different story.

 

There need to be loss threads to counter respect threads. I never see people post their characters' losses or extenuating circumstances. Such as, you know, how they didn't even know Ultron had a program in there, weren't thining about him, and were fighting other people at the time. Or how they beat him with a virus from a Commodore 64. You know, technology.

I'm sure there are circumstances from others as well on both sides. I just picked that one because the whole technopathy argument consistently ignores the prep the technopath usually has against the lack of prep the opponent does. They won't annihilate technology in a team battle anymore than a telepath, electropath, or pyromancer will own whatever they normally control, if both sides are prepped.

If Mika's team wins, it's because of superior power, because that's what they're bringing to the table. If Minch's team wins, it's because of cohesion and prep, because that's what they're bringing.

And I didn't realize the Phalanx were (was?) involved in this fight.

 

All in all I'd rather face Minch. But mika has a better team. And did anyone understand Ef's post, I know I won but it made little sense to me.

Also Minch your arguments are the same over and over. You show that surfer scan way too much. Also, what does reed being a master of aerospace engineering have to do with anything. Mika, I enjoy reading your arguments, even I you pick on details at times.

 

I have no idea what he's talking about.