Games The Comic Book Character Draft ReduX [Ed: That's #10 for those keeping score]

Discussion in 'Community' started by EmpireForever, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    nope, not particularly. i just realize i'm by far the least experienced person here.

    to elaborate on that, the last comics i read were the final crisis TPB, batman RIP TPB, and batman hush TPB, an bone. before that wargames TPBs. other than that only what i could really get out of the library, which was mainly batman and spiderman TPBs because everything else they just didn't have enough of to make reading. wasn't fond of the idea of getting only part of an arch or anything.
    Last edited by Trimaj, Mar 21, 2013
  2. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Here we go. These should boost some egos, even though I tried to be harsh when I could. Just couldn't really find a lot of weaknesses, which means this draft should be spectacular.

    Inty

    Thanos
    Ronan
    X-Man
    Superboy Prime
    Doomsday
    Exodus
    Firelord
    Violator
    Terrax
    Plutonian

    "Yes!" Pick: X-Man
    "Eh.." Pick: Terrax
    The Lowdown: I believe I stated in the last breakdowns that this team was right on the cusp. It's now very much in the mix for a top 3 or 4 team, the Doomsday pick is great, because we all threw cohesion into the wind. The back three picks will require solid argument in individual battles, but this squad is very top heavy, which can be a very good thing, amiright? Zing. Great chance at the championship here.

    whiteeagle

    Darkseid
    Loki
    Sinestro
    Kang
    Apocalypse
    Mongul I
    Abomination
    Black Adam
    Lobo
    Mr. Sinister

    "Yes!" Pick: Black Adam
    "Eh.." Pick: Lobo
    The Lowdown: I've gotten much higher on this team through the free agency time period, Abomination was a perennial power lister back in the day, and was just sitting there, kind of like Supergirl. While I say that, I think dumping Superman is certainly a gamble. I think you have a top-5 prep in Kang, and a monsterous group in teams, strengthened by one of the few (only?) cohesive bunches. Solid chance at the championship.


    Chim

    Onslaught
    Qztr
    The Sentry
    Dr. Fate
    Beta Ray Bill
    Atrocitus
    Vulcan
    Blink
    Nimrod
    Supergirl

    "Yes!" Pick: Supergirl
    "Eh.." Pick: Vulcan
    The Lowdown: This right here is my favorite, folks. Mainly because I'm real high on Onslaught, as I said before. But Beta Ray Bill, Nimrod, and Supergirl all could have gone higher than they did, and Chim got 'em all. That's why they say drafts are won in the middle rounds. Interested to see your strategy with Qztr. My pick to be doing the Mark Madsen.

    Yak

    Dr. Strange
    Mr. Majestic
    Flash (Wally West)
    Magneto
    Juggernaut
    Hulk (World War)
    Allen the Alien
    Sentinel (Alan Scott)
    Green Lantern (John Stewart)
    Dex-Starr

    "Yes!" Pick: Magneto (via trade)
    "Eh.." Pick: Dex-Starr
    The Lowdown: I will admit I know very little about the cat lantern, but I know my friend will educate me through his arguments along the way. This is a trademark Yak team, big time potential in all the right spaces- Magneto playing the role of Oscar Robertson and locking down the defense, and Juggernaut, Flash, and Majestic all big time bruisers with big upside. Two lanterns at the back, and although they aren't the top guns, they'll give you some cohesion, which one may argue that you have a bit of. Just a bit. Good chance to run the table here.

    Trimaj

    Zoom
    Annihilus
    Zemo
    Count Nefaria
    CNX
    Hourman
    Swamp Thing
    Mongul Jr.
    Superman
    Stryfe

    "Yes!" Pick: Hourman
    "Eh.." Pick: Mongul Jr.
    The Lowdown: For the talk of being the newb around the draft, you have done a really nice job here, especially in that trade with Yak that brought you Annihilus and Zemo, two guys who fit in perfectly with CNX (not so much Superman, but hey). Hourman will be your version of Blink- if you catch the judges with the right argument and utilize him effectively, you could be golden- if not, could be some heartache. I think you had one of the best second-half drafts in here, and I think you've got a solid chance to get into the playoffs. Nicely done.

    Minch

    Silver Surfer
    Nova
    Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
    Thor
    Dr. Doom
    Green Lantern (Ganthet)
    Captain Marvel
    Professor X
    Rulk
    Nico/Wiccan

    "Yes!" Pick: Professor X
    "Eh.." Pick: Rulk
    The Lowdown: I'm also higher on this team than I originally was- probably the best second half of the draft here, with Marvel and Professor X- two guys I don't see losing much, assuming you prep baldie. And outside of Doom, you really could have solid cohesion here too, which is why I think that he'll play along in team battles. Thor was a massive steal, as I said before. Good chance to make a run, I say.

    Kalar

    Spawn
    Genis-Vell
    Adam Warlock
    Quasar
    Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond)
    Ion (Sodam Yat)
    Maestro
    Drax
    Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
    Captain Comet

    "Yes!" Pick: Quasar
    "Eh.." Pick: Drax
    The Lowdown: Yep, still right up there at the top, the way I see it. If your tireless defense of Kyle Rayner is a preview of what's to come, I think you'll be a tough out, simply due to the fact that you play like Herm Edwards. I know you know what that means. A few big projects in here just due to unfamiliarity, such as Genis-Vell and Warlock, but I think you know what you're doing here. Great chance at a run.

    Amatsu

    Despero
    Cyborg Superman
    Extant
    Ultron
    Black Bolt
    Captain Atom
    Martian Manhunter
    Wonder Woman
    Orion
    Omni-Man

    "Yes!" Pick: Cyborg Superman/Captain Atom
    "Eh.." Pick: Martian Manhunter
    The Lowdown: Right up there with Chim, only thing that edged you out is that I'm just not high on the Manhunter. It'll be up to you to prove me wrong, and I know you're up for that challenge. Top 4 of this team are unquestionably the best top 4 of any team out there, and Orion was a very crafty pickup. Aside from maybe the trump you used in this first round, the beauty of this team is that you've got so many big hitters, you likely won't need to use many trumps. But who am I to say. You vs. Chim is my odds-on favorite right now for the championship, but we all know how quickly the weather can change. Even if Storm wasn't drafted.
    Last edited by heels1785, Mar 21, 2013
  3. whiteeagle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2004
    star 6
    Quite a contrast in what you & Wang said specifically about my team. Lets see if the numbers go my way.
  4. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    All this love for Nimrod and Bastion's just hanging out.
  5. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, to each his own, good to have differing opinions in all facets. I liked your Sinestro pick and not so much the Lobo one, so we're on opposite sides of that spectrum too.

    Of course, I'm right. :p
  6. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    http://www.comicvine.com/martian-manhunter/29-2047/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/92-704652/

    Alright, not going to post individual scans now. But I am going to give you this link and tell you what is in it. I will go down the list, skipping a lot, but really just highlighting the good stuff specific to this fight.

    The first and second set of scans in there shows Martian Manhunter connecting with and controlling the mind of a powerful sorcerer who was at the time channeling the power of a being called the Godhead, this sorcerer was powerful enough during this time to warp all of reality to his will, alter time, create and destroy worlds.

    The third set of scans show MM battling Captain Marvel who was amped up by a powerful sorcerer, while at the same time he was in Captain Marvel's and Dr. Fate's mind removing this powerful sorcerer from possessing his friends. He won the physical fight, as well as the telepathic one.

    Further down the page it shows some of his martian vision, having the ability to scatter atoms instantly upon impact.

    Scans showing that he can travel faster than light.

    Immediately after that was shown scanning the minds of everyone on earth, all of which were given super powers by Dr. Destiny's reality warping abilities.

    Shown phasing through forcefields (Strange's uber auto-shields?) that tanked multiple blows from both Superman and Kyle Rayner.

    Later shows MM making the Joker sane, the Joker at the time was in full possession of the worlogog. MM seperated him from the worlogog and took control of his mind.

    Scans showing him absorb energy and converting it to psychic energy, also absorbing materials and adding it to his mass making him a giant armored beast.

    Multiple times regenerates his body from single limbs, his body can be almost completely destroyed and he can still recoup very fast.

    Entered the Spectre's mind and forced him into the astral plan, THE SPECTRE!

    Fights Mageddon, a weapon created by the Old Gods, and beats the god created weapons psychic offense/defense. To put perspective to Mageddon's power here is some of what he had done. practically destroying Hector Hammond's (a planetary-scale telepath) mind, causing two wars to break out in the space of five minutes, forcing an entire planet full of the Old Gods (a single Old God could reality warp everyone on Earth to give them powers) to kill each other, driving everyone on Earth out of their minds with rage and fear and making them go to war, and with the exception of that last feat, all the others were done while Mageddon was light years away from its target.

    Again faces Dr. Destiny, this time forcibly enters his mind, again Dr. Destiny was fully in control of his reality warping abilities at the moment.

    Telepathically mind controls a god, Vishnu, and keeps it sleeping.

    Backhands and sends flying Superboy Prime only a few panels after SBP shrugged off full on punches from Black Adam.

    Alright that is just MM. Wonder Woman speaks for herself, being one of the best physical combatants in the DC universe.

    These two, through use of MM's phasing can bypass any shielding Strange has. Can, in my view, be more than enough to force Strange to actually have to focus on not being telepathically raped.

    I have gone through the entire Strange thread, many of his scans do show use of magical artifacts or channeling the power of others in order to accomplish his feats. Is he powerful? No doubt. Does he often use amped powers and prep time to accomplish his most high end feats? Yes.

    He doesn't have prep to gain that here. He is up against a very cohesive and powerful duo. His best telepathy feats don't compare to Martian Manhunters. Physically, he is always protected by his shields, and MM has shown the ability to bypass shields just like Stranges multiple times, with ease.

    In regards to Wonder Woman, her weapons and bracers are godly magic. Well suited to defending a sorcerer? I would think yes.

    Her sword in particular, hurts Darkseid...
    [IMG]

    Her bracers have deflected omega beams from Darkseid as well, multiple times. I would think that will be sufficient to show that she should be able to deflect Strange's attacks.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 21, 2013
  7. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Going up against the unquestioned strongest user of magic in this draft, do we just assume that Strange does not use MM's one gaping weakness against him to take him out of the fight early? That is the only problem I see here, I think Diana would be able to hold her own for a while, and you make great points on MM's offense against Strange's shielding, but I'd like to know how he will defend against flames of a mystical nature.

    I'm going to let the arguments go through the night, especially on two that are most in question. I'll put judgments up at lunch tomorrow.
  8. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Martian Manhunter has overcome his weakness to fire a long time ago.
  9. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    "J'onn has stated that he no longer fears ordinary flames and that the only fire that can trigger his fear is fire of psychic or mystical power."
    heels1785 likes this.
  10. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Are we just going to assume that Dr. Strange instantly knows a specific weakness for any given opponent? How often does he resort to mystical fire? There wasn't that many instances of that in his respect thread, most of his attacks are mystic energy, not fire.

    He is going to pull that out of his ass right away? Doubt it.
  11. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    Just thought it was relevant to your argument. If fire did enter into it, it would still be a problem.
  12. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    How well known is the martian weakness to fire, though? I'm certainly not saying he pulls it out immediately, just taking it into account.
  13. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    just asking because i genuinely do not know... but couldn't strange like turn them into rabbits or something?
  14. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    star 6
  15. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    I don't know. Wonder Woman is the child of 2 major gods, she is magic herself..in effect she is a Goddess. Martian Manhunter would probably just reform himself.

    Changing them into stuff doesn't seem effective.

    I don't think someone from the Marvel universe would know specific knowledge from the DC universe without prep, or vice versa.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 21, 2013
  16. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
  17. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    so j'onn can change shapes at will now? when did that happen?
  18. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Alright, mystical fire. This thing with MM is inconsistent. At times he is a puss, at other times he is really durable to it.

    He has fought Asmodel, an immensely powerful fallen angel in DC. Asmodel lit him up with mystical fire, MM's shoulders were literally on fire and he still fought on. He then went on to catch and break the fall of the Heavenly Chariot, which is made of godly fire. His hands were on fire, didn't really do anything to him.

    At the least he has some really good durability even against mystical fire, even if it would eventually do him in.

    Either way, he isn't going to lay down in the fetal position and instantly give up. Not that Strange is going to whip out that kind of attack right away anyway.

    Long time ago.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 21, 2013
  19. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    You know...this is taking place in Limbo. There might just maybe be some mystical flames around. I don't know I'm no doctor.

    As for "major gods", Strange has handled the In-Betweener. I'm just saying.

    But I'm not his GM and I'm not judging. Pretty weak stuff though, if you ask me. Has Diana actually shown some super resilience against magic that I'm not aware of(I know she has some--but it's, like, more than Superman. Everyone is tougher against magic than that guy)? Just because her parents are gods doesn't mean she has some kind of immunity to someone who channels some very fundamental powers of the universe that are, quite frankly, way above Zeus. I'd like to see some feats of her durability before I just give her the benefit of the doubt against Stephen Strange, for pete's sake.

    Edit: Yeah, J'onn's pretty good at the whole shape-shifting thing. He's even borrowed mass from other things before(there's one silly scan of him somewhere assimilating a building or something and looking like mecha J'onn)
    Last edited by EmpireForever, Mar 21, 2013
  20. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    I don't know, I would have to dig around and don't really have the time at the moment. To be honest, I don't really expect my trump to win here, but am taking the opportunity to lay the ground work for them now so it will pay off later.

    I don't know what Limbo brings to the table, didn't really bother to look it up.

    Anyway, if the judgements come before I have time to dig into Wonder Woman more I won't be hurt about it. If I have time though I will see what I can find.
  21. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Meh I don't get it. I didn't mean that that is all I think EF, I am just saying it is difficult to argue against nothing. Finding information on these guys is tough, Drax has a lot more than the other two but nothing ZOMG worthy even though hes been around a while. Sentry has plenty of showings against a plethora of enemies all over the ability spectrum (Ares, Molecule Man, BB super skrulls, Carnage, Ultron, Genis-Vel, Thor, Void, WWHulkie, Doom, even said to have stalemated Galactus.) He has shown telepathy, molecular transmutation/manipulation, warp speed, inst-regeneration, interstellar travel, WWH busting strength and then some. Show me something anything for these guys. My point is that I shouldn't have to go and respect these guys. I guess I was looking for more competition...I don't get it.

    I see no feats showing Maestro above or near WWH or a Savage Hulk. I actually see zilch. I found a Maestro Vs WWH thread that was pretty split some thinking WWH would take it and others saying based on 'years of gamma radiation' and being 100 or so years older they thing Maestro would take it. Still no actual feats. From what I read on his fight with Hulk it was Professor Hulk, is this correct? I mean, that isn't so hot. Sentry Bob is much past that. Uggh at not having a lot to go on from Maestro in the last decade or so.

    I am probably underestimating Firestorm at least his respect thread isn't as pitiful as Maestros. Are we assuming that Deathstorm IS Firestorm Ronnie for this draft? Because that would be impressive yes, that isn't the feeling I am getting from the summary of that arc. Seems to me there is a different entity that absorbed and separated Jason and Ronnie from their powers. Uggh glad it's not my job to discern such silliness. I hate silly things.

    EDIT: Maybe it isn't clear but I am not saying it is a slam dunk or would even be easy for Sentry. I am saying that the benefit of the doubt is on his side, innocent until proven guilty type thing. Because he HAS shown a lot for himself especially at peak level performance (which is still probably out there) I don't see the same level from these three. Great power, and it is a ridiculous trump no cohesion, rhyme or reason to it but just not enough for me. To quote a friend I AIN'T SEE IT.
    Last edited by The_Chim, Mar 21, 2013
  22. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    alright... arguments and such. since it's already been established that this is fully un-neutered hourman, i.e. has full control over his time manip capabilities... let's see what he can do with this stuff.

    first off, let's not forget one very simple thing. hourman has access to the entirety of the 853rd centuries tech. i know he'd have more of it if he were prepped, but he has the entire database. and he can build stuff from it, especially with that time manipulation stuff he can do. like stepping between pico seconds and such. yes, this is laying the groundwork for teams should i ever get there. but that is not precisely an insignificant tech advantage over... really everyone else in this draft in a lot of regards. or to quote something on the comicvine page for him: Hourman had the stored knowledge of 853rd century technology, which included the ability to build future technology and cure most diseases. now that's pretty sweet in a teams or prep situation... which i'm realizing i probably should have put him in, but oh well.

    just a quick list of his abilities:

    Android Physiology: He was a diamond-generation intelligent machine colony, DNA-programmed with Tyler Miraclo gene bio-software. He was a top of the line android, and still considered cutting edge even two years after his creation. He is based off Rex Tyler's own genetic code he possesses all of the various enhanced attributes.
    • Chronokinesis
    • Computing Intelligence
    • Enhanced Senses
    • Flight
    • Superhuman Agility
    • Superhuman Durability
    • Superhuman Speed
    • Superhuman Stamina
    • Superhuman Strength
    as someone put it to me (EF i think)... he pretty much has access to what amounts to the time gem in the marvel universe, for an hour. it's suggested that it recharges every hour as well, although nothing has been fully explained. at the absolute least he can use it once a day, feasibly once every other hour. as there's nothing concrete on that either direction i'll let the judges draw their own conclusions.

    so what does this mean in practical applications, and how he can beat these two. well, for one thing they have to be able to hit him. not precisely an easy proposition when he can literally freeze everything around him. but that's pretty much a given i suppose.

    he can also narrate the future before it happens. pretty nifty little thing to be able to do that.

    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451100-1.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451101-2.png

    then he can use that time vision of his to basically turn them into babies. like he did to mad hatter here. oh he also made some ropes decay pretty easily as well.

    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451170-1.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451176-2.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451195-1.png

    honestly, don't see either of them doing all that much as babies. so, yea. there's that. not many infants would be much of a threat to this guy in the slightest. there's also that he could age them to whatever point that they'd decompose, should that actually be possible. or he could, you know just send them to the end of the universe or something. not like he has to have their consent on that or anything.

    oh. i forgot to mention that he absorbed all of batmans memories of the JLA there by observing his life in pretty much a split second. so if he really, really needs to understand what to do to hurt these two... well, he snag their memories by basically watching their entire lives in fast forward, time step to wherever he needs to get whatever he needs to kill them since he can move not only through time but space, and then be back with whatever toolio thing he needs without even having to deal with anyone there as time would still be stopped. he could do this because if he doesn't want it, nothing is even happening in that hour of power of his. i really don't think it would take him too terribly long to do something like that either, if he were to really need to or be down to the wire with say only a few minutes left in that hour. yay time manipulation!
    anyway, moving onwards!

    he can also completely bring something back from a fragment... as he does with amazo here:

    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451238-1.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451240-2.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451241-3.png

    now... i'm not sure about you, but i don't really know of anything that duo can really do to stop what this guy can do.

    oh. directly AFTER he did that to amazo what's he do? turns him back into the component.

    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451265-1.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2451266-2.png

    now... the only problem there is that amazo had already duplicated his powers, but far as i know these two can't really do that. sure, they may be able to tear him apart physically, but first they have to hourman for that to even be feasible.

    i'd like to think i'm showing that he REALLY doesn't need prep to be insanely powerful here, but hey, if that doesn't do it maybe this will:

    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2453363-1.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2453364-2.png

    now, what that amazo had just done was wipe the floor with the JLA you see standing around on the second page. what does hourman do? adapts some of steels tech on the fly, and simply unmakes amazo. it also shows that he can take a pretty powerful hit, since that was supes heat vision that amazo had absorbed right there. liquid metal repaired either in the next panel, or next page, not really looking terribly closely. but still, very little time going on there. but that unmaking thing... dude has some crazy tech skills going on right there. or some crazy time skills. i'm not going to outright state he can simply unmake terrax or firelord, since they aren't machines, but since it isn't outright stated that it's only tech he's doing it to it might be inferred that he can really unmake anything.

    oh, that was also post getting rid of the whirlogog.

    and if you really, really need another option for hourman to take care of these two, how about trapping them in a timeless sphere like he does to epoch here after turning him into a baby again? (dude seems to really like this tactic... can't say i blame him)

    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2453297-1.png
    http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2453298-2.png

    one last thing, even though it seems like overkill at this point. he can become intangible. by unphasing himself from time.

    http://s165.photobucket.com/user/Galan007/media/hr16.jpg.html

    so that can kinda negate the physical advantages that those two possess over him as well.
    there's plenty more stuff you can take a peak at if you want to, but i do believe that is probably enough to deal with terrax and firelord.

    http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/citizenbane/hourman-one-million-respect-thread/87-82495/
    http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t479848.html

    let's just say that this is one scary dude with or without prep.
    Last edited by Trimaj, Mar 22, 2013
  23. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    Combatants are confined to the arena(unless the fight should take them somewhere else, and that's not really going to happen in Limbo), or it would be a forfeit, so leaving to go make something wouldn't be considered.
  24. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    alright. that wasn't precisely the most serious suggestion, simply something that he is capable of doing.

    i would note that if he's dealing with a techie person that he didn't precisely have to leave to do that with steels tech though. he just did it on the fly.
  25. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    Well, you say he did that on the fly, but where's the scan of him doing it? He's already done it at the point you posted. You can't just assume he could copy any tech because he's copied Steel's here, especially when he's been working with Steel for a little while at this point. I mean, I'm not saying he couldn't have done a scan and copy thing, or whatever you want to think of, I'm just saying that's one hell of an assumption. Like some of the other stuff you said. But otherwise nice stuff.

    Anyway, my point is, before we start saying he just goes around cloning technology, or anything, really, we'd need to know the nature of that particular ability.