Games The Comic Book Character Draft ReduX [Ed: That's #10 for those keeping score]

Discussion in 'Community' started by EmpireForever, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    well, given that it doesn't really apply in this particular battle, given neither of them really use tech much, i don't see that it really matters too much ATM. i'll see what i can find for future reference though.

    on the steel thing, guess i misread it or something. like i've said before (or think i have), if anything i say is blatantly wrong, or obviously stupid, just ignore it. or explain why it's wrong so i won't say it again. that always works too.

    could you, per chance, tell me some of the other stuff i was assuming about? would be useful for trying to find something to back it up later.
    Last edited by Trimaj, Mar 22, 2013
  2. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Alright, what were the circumstances of that?

    So, the In-Betweener. Strange just waltzed up to him and put him down? No. He had help from the Lords of Chaos and Order. Even then his spells were being ignored completely from the In-Betweener, and when Strange was on the verge of full defeat one of the Vishanti used the Orb to infuse him with their power. That was when he finally was able to turn the tide and beat him.

    The only reason that he had their help was because the In-Betweener was threatening to tear apart the Universe.

    Has Strange beaten gods? Yes, but he doesn't just go in with nothing and do that. Take Shuma Gorath for instance, that feat is used a lot, well in order to do that he had temporarily taken possession of the gem of Cyttorak and is merged with the chaos lord Arioch. Nobody says that when they post a scan of him doing it though, they just show Dr. Strange finishing off a god.

    That is the kind of stuff I am talking about, Strange gets credit for all kinds of crazy stuff but he doesn't really do any of that on his own or without prep time. Look at what he did in WWH. He merged with Zom in order to fight Green Scar because he knew he couldn't do it alone, but even then he just got both of his arms broke for his trouble.

    Unless Strange is merged with some entity or god or utilizing some artifact that he has temporary possession of, he isn't walking around knocking off the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 22, 2013
  3. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Not that I have time to try and refute every argument, but I just skipped to this page. Only reason Strange got his arms broke is bc he was being rational with Hulk and while they were TP talking Hulk broke his arms.
  4. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    Judges have 48 hrs right?
  5. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    No he wasn't.



    Strange admits in the first few panels that he can barely even talk. There was only one panel where he seems to try and calm down, but then they go at it again fully and Hulk finishes him off with the double arm break which happened right at the end...there really isn't anything missing other than the finish.

    There was no "being rational" going on at all.

    But again, this level of power is definitely not standard for Dr. Strange. It happens only because of specific sets of circumstances or advanced preparation time. In order to do this thing against the Hulk, Dr. Strange preformed a ritual and channeled the power of Zom before ever going to the battlefield.

    When Strange faced off against Galactus, it was the same kind of stuff. He was fighting a Galactus who was only moments from death due to starvation, and Thor and Iron Man were already directly engaged with G and holding their own (there was about another dozen or so heroes there as well). The other 2 times Strange faced a normal Galactus, he got his ass handed to him.

    If you need scans on that let me know.

    Strange is not prepared, judge him as such.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 22, 2013
  6. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Oh, sorry, meant broke his hands. I think that happened before Zom. I'll look at the footage in a bit.
  7. heels1785 Community & Prequel Trilogy Manager

    Manager
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    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Correct

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
  8. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    No it didn't. Hulk broke Strange's hands at the end of that fight while he was already possessed by Zom. I had that entire story until I sold it, but his hands were definitely broke at the end of the fight.
  9. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Uh... Strange didn't have hands when the fight started. He's got maces for them due to Zom's power.
    And, once Strange realized people were in danger he stood there and took a point blank shot... And then Hulk got inside his defenses. It was hardly a fair fight once he stopped. I recall thinking that the other time I read that as well. It's like standing there, taking an uppercut, being mounted and beaten while you're throwing hapless slaps at your opponent from the down position in MMA.

    I would also ask if the reason Strange is prepped for half these things is because... Doesn't he always carry some of his artifacts with him, such as the Eye of Agamotto? And can't he always summon powers from other entities such as Cyttorak, the Vishanti, etc.?

    Actually yes, I would like a ruling on how much Strange is bringing with him off jump. If I have to prep him I will, but I don't think I've seen him without at least the Eye except when he gave up his Supreme title. Then again I don't read Strange.

    Oh I had given up on finding where it was said he could end the Civil War with a whisper. But it's in this revamped thread, along with 2 Moondragon battles (at least 1 she's clearly the aggressor), other TP stuff, shields that easily stop Hulk and other beings, time travel/stoppage.

    Oh and he could just bfr one of them and deal with them 1 at a time. But I really want to find where he destroys someone's dimension because he's annoyed.
    Last edited by MandaloreYak, Mar 22, 2013
  10. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    If you look at it, after the pause in the fight Strange did fight back. And yes, the hands were broke at the end of the fight. Look at Zom, when Strange channels Zom he took on the same hands that Zom has....the maces.

    He needs prep for these things because he just doesn't snap his fingers and gain the power of the Vishanti, or the Lords of Chaos and Order. He gains them through rituals and spells, and then goes into battle. That is how he gained the power of Zom, through a ritual he did at his house, then he left and confronted Hulk.

    He doesn't upgrade in mid battle as you are suggesting, he puts on these layers of mystical power and enhancement prior to these kinds of fights. Show one instance of him simply deciding that he needs more power and enhancing himself to a cosmic entity in terms of power in mid fight, it just doesn't happen that way.

    That is always the ridiculousness of Dr. Strange, everyone thinks he just chooses his level of power on a whim but he doesn't, or that he is really just that powerful all the time but he isn't. When he was fighting the In-Betweener the only reason he got the extra power was because the In-Betweener is the offspring of the Lords of Chaos and Order and since he was trying to unravel the universe they felt responsible and lent Strange their aid (along with the aid of the Vishanti) to stop him.

    All these cosmic beings aren't just sitting around waiting for Strange to call them up so they can happily dish off enough power to make him a destroyer of Gods you know, these are spells and power ups and temporary items that he uses. Yes he has some that are always there, like the eye and the orb and the cloak, but others he uses once and we never see it again. He is a walking plot device, he seems to be granted these power ups and artifacts when **** hits the fan and he needs to get through universe ending arcs....but he doesn't walk around amped up like that all the time.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 22, 2013
  11. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    Once again, mixing universes, but have you ever played Dark Stalkers Night Warriors Revenge, Dememtri summonded Gods at will. Point being I've always imagined Strange like that.
  12. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Sorry, he isn't. The stories just don't support that, and in fact show it being exactly as I just mentioned.
  13. DarthIntegral Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Typically, doesn't Strange need to go through a rather lengthy process of spell casting, incantation, and even research to find the right spell he wants? Highly unlikely he's going to be able to do those kinds of incantations with a beast streaming at him, trying to tear his head off.
    Amatsu Mikaboshi likes this.
  14. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Exactly, or with Martian Manhunter trying to telepathically crack his nut.

    PS: Totally stoked, I took a chance on Harvard and they pulled through for me. [face_dancing]
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 22, 2013
  15. DarthIntegral Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    at least he's not trying to telekinetically crack his nuts.
  16. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    He might if things get crazy.

    PS Images of Zom...

    [IMG][IMG][IMG]

    Zom always has hand maces, it should not be a surprise that Dr. Strange would when he is channeling Zom.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 22, 2013
  17. heels1785 Community & Prequel Trilogy Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    My understanding is that everyone is at their highest sustained peak. If you can show a time in which Strange brought his game without preparation or needing lengthy amounts of time to fight a reasonably powered opponent, now would be the time to bring it out.
  18. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    The whole reason Strange even fought In-Betweener... Is because his existence threatened the fabric of the multiverse, according to Eternity. And yes, the Vishanti, Cyttorak, he can summon their powers quickly. There are many examples, such as this which I chose bc it shows him using a host of entities, and using battlefield removal which he could do against either of them for 1 on 1. It also shows he could add Satannish if he wanted. He could use Cyttorak with the Crimson bands while in the middle of fighting (I mean how hard is it to talk while you're fighting anyway?), which have bound Hulk for lengthy periods and would easily do the same to WW. Do I really need a scan for that? He can also throw up haphazard shields that stop Hulk from doing anything, but of course for WWH he didn't because Hulk had to win. Nonetheless his hands were maces at the beginning because his hands were broken before that. And yes Strange fought back, but it was from his back after getting distracted and point-blanked. That was the point I was trying to make. And he was still described by Uatu as being able to stop the Civil War w/a whisper. Some psionic feats here as well, including apparently putting Eternity's consciousness into Storm and directing her and some battles. On the page also is him shrinking to the size of an Atom, which I'm guessing would make him very, very hard to hit while he uses his powers. It's the same tactic that was used once by some obscure hero (well it's similar) to beat Darkseid. Which I admit was lame.

    Oh right, transmutes living and nonliving matter instantly and easily. Without aiming. Which means they can't really dodge. Remember why Molecule Man was banned?

    I don't, no, I shouldn't, have to go on here. The fact is, Strange can summon powers from Marvel gods and demons without having to go ask about it, and that's a primary tactic of his. He can do all this crazy stuff by himself, and he's been toned down the last many years because he's hard to use because he doesn't legitimately lose. There are quotes from Thor, Uatu, Eternity... All saying basically that he's unfair. Psionically, shield-wise, even with no shields he can take punches from Hulk and Juggernaut. He fought Death. While he was dead.

    But hey, I wasn't planning to do nearly this much argument and for Flash I'd have to do waaaay more. And
    [IMG]
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  19. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
  20. heels1785 Community & Prequel Trilogy Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Holding off on the Strange vs. Trump battle for now, because I see it just stupid close at this point, with a few things hinging on arguments.

    As for the others. We'll start with the easiest.

    Dr. Doom trumped with Nico/Wiccan (prepared) vs Lobo trumped with Loki

    This one comes down to Doom and Loki- with the all-important prep, against a familiar opponent, I go with Doom. Good break on the numbers on the triple trump gamble.

    Firelord trumped with Terrax Vs. Hourman

    I just don't see it, I'm sorry. Prepped, yes. But for his hour of power, even assuming he was able to evade any sort of first attack, abilities that are displayed against the Mad Hatter and Batman aren't going to undo two heralds of Galactus, IMO. Point to the trump.

    Firestorm trumped with Maestro and Drax Vs. The Sentry

    This one is brutally difficult, and my lunch is up. Leaning one way pretty strongly. Will post my vote with the Strange/MM-WW vote tonight before 10.
  21. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Read the fight with Strange and the In-Betweener, he didn't summon the powers of Cyttorak the Vishanti or the Lords of Order and Chaos. He had possession of the gem of Cyttorak, and the others granted assistance to him on their own because he was going to face off against the In-Betweener.

    Your understanding of Strange is fragmented and incomplete.

    Nothing in here shows that he can summon powers instantly from Marvel gods and demons instantly without prep. You cite the Cyttorak bands spell, that is just a spell, has nothing to do with channeling the being Cyttorak. Transmuting matter, has nothing to do with channeling powers.

    All you are doing is showing single scans, and then claiming this is a standard level of power that Strange can attain any time he wishes, which it is not, and I have shown clearly that it isn't. After a while you start to question the use of a single scan to try and prove something, and there is a reason it should be questioned, and that is because it usually doesn't show the entire picture of what came before and what was required to pull off a feat.

    Strange is classic for this, getting credit for things that he didn't accomplish on his own when the reality is that he had help and temporary power ups. You are looking at single instances cited as feats, and taking that as the full story and not considering anything that isn't seen in the scan, thus giving credit solely to Strange for these amazing things that aren't possible for a normal non-powered up or prepared Dr. Strange.

    PS: In the thread I showed it had MM shrinking to the size of an atom as well, bit deal. Even at that size Strange's mind is still accessible to MM, his mind doesn't suddenly become off limits to a psychic above what is normally seen in Marvel.
    Last edited by Amatsu Mikaboshi, Mar 22, 2013
  22. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    I confess that its been a while, but I thought Strange did have some psychic defenses?
  23. Amatsu Mikaboshi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    Sure he does, but defenses are different than immunity. He is also facing off against a telepath who on a regular basis mind wipes/controls reality warpers. He also has a goddess coming straight for him.

    He has a powerful mental, and physical fight, coming at him all at once. He isn't prepared, he shouldn't be channeling gods or entities willy nilly in here if you base it on how he does so in the comics. He needs prep time for this, or artifacts. Contrary to what Yak is saying, he doesn't do this with the snap of his fingers.
  24. Wang Chi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 1
    I'll have judgments up when I get home from work tonight.
  25. heels1785 Community & Prequel Trilogy Manager

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    star 6
    If you've already posted scans of these instances, I likely missed them. When and who? And are they comparable?