Games The Comic Book Character Draft ReduX [Ed: That's #10 for those keeping score]

Discussion in 'Community' started by EmpireForever, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    Boom... that proves Strange for me. I've been saying Strange just summons things and it works. Yak has cited battles and captions...
    DISPROVE IT!

    But ya can't.
  2. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Except Strange was acting as the champion for the Lords of Chaos and Order in order to defeat their creation from destroying the universe, of course they would lend him their power in that situation. Would they in any other? Has Dr. Strange ever done it again? No. Think there is a reason he hasn't? Probably because he can't just do it at will as you are suggesting.

    Also, the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak is a spell Yak....it isn't a channeling of power. It is a spell, he has used it over and over again....a spell. Also, Namor has broken those bands. Not that big of a deal. You trying to claim that this proves that he can channel the power of Cyttorak just shows the level of your misunderstanding about Dr. Strange, again...it is a spell that he can cast. Strange isn't even the only one who has ever used that spell.

    In all the cases that Strange does this crazy **** it is a universe or world ending event, it is a long drawn out story where there is some larger reason when he can call on this extra power or where he has absorbed power through multiple battles. Such as with Arioch, since you want to say he is better than WW and MM, yes he is.....but Strange was already boosted from absorbing black magic energy from multiple old ones and was already far more powerful than the Ancient One (Vishanti). He used black magic (something he has forsaken the use of since) to merge his body and sacrificed a large part of his mind in order to do.....would he ever be able to do that without prep or already having absorbed the energy of others? Nope.

    You make it sound like he just snaps his fingers in mid fight and is suddenly on par with gods and cosmic entities, but he isn't.

    You haven't posted any scans at all to prove anything you are claiming, and you haven't shown scans to disprove the scans and multiple arc summaries I have given you.

    Can you show this? Or are you just claiming it is true and hoping people believe it over the evidence that has already been posted? Go ahead and actually show some real proof rather just short rants saying that he should be able to do anything just because you want him to and refuse to believe that he can't.

    EDIT: Alright, so like after a whopping 10 minutes of research it appears that many people use this spell.

    Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, random disciples of Mordo, Mordo himself.

    Many people have broke them as well. Thor, Sentry, Hulk, Namor, She Hulk!. Doesn't seem like it would be hard to phase out of them either. Illuminati Skrull broke them as well.
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 5, 2013
  3. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Well, he has a respect thread. I'm kinda done arguing, taking the whole regular season to prove my points actually isn't fun. And I should know, having done it every draft.
    Except the prior one. The prior one was fun. I didn't do much arguing. Shocked I made the playoffs actually, because I'm sure I shouldn't lost more than I did. But yah, I'm sticking to theatres and stories and fun stuff.
  4. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Except his respect thread shows only the end result, and doesn't use multiple scans to show the crap that was required to pull it off. Additional research is usually a good thing before just assuming that he can pull if whatever he wants at will.
  5. whiteeagle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2004
    star 6
  6. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Roll your eyes all you want, but usually when posting feats of things guys can do it is a good idea to show how they do it.
  7. Hokage_Kalar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2009
    star 4
    This is where I call shinagans. He was acting as the champion.... prove it.... can't do it at will.... Erroneous, Erroneous on all accounts. Strange has a history of summoning various powers, and channeling their ability. Despite Strange being around for a long time, he has almost NEVER used the same spell, why, because that's boring. And it's Strange, the best sorcerer Marvel has. Of course they are going to show new feats, new spells, new Gods, Strange being bat $#!+ awesome with new things because it sells. The argument Yak made was he wasn't prepped, and he wasn't. He summoned something awesome, and it worked. Show a time when he trys to summon something and they say no... you can't... why... because it doesn't happen. You're basically saying show me everytime Thor throws his hammer with an over hand toss with his left hand while flexing his right bicep. This isn't horse. Strange doesn't have to do it repeatedly to prove the concept that he can summon Gods and use their power. Yak even explained why these feats happen and why they would let him use their power. Stop putting the burden on another GM to down play the best sorcerer ever and show us ONE example of him summoning something and it NOT working. ONE god who says "nope... not today strange, you can't use my power." Until then, Strange should get his summons on will.

    Show us a time when a summon doesn't work...
    Last edited by Hokage_Kalar, Apr 5, 2013
  8. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Well first of all, he isn't summoning ****. He doesn't make cosmic entities appear on the battle field. He channels their power. He absorbs power of people he defeats, temporarily, or calls on entities to help him out (as with the In-Betweener, the Lords were his creator...they had a stake in making sure their creation didn't destroy the freeking universe), or cast spells.

    The Lords of Chaos and Order are tasked with keeping the balance of the Universe, their own agent (the In-Betweener) was trying to destroy it. You don't think that is a special circumstance that is not going to be seen in the draft? You think that these powerful cosmic beings are going to always allow some random human to use their power? Or that they don't even have an option to deny it's use?

    That sounds logical to you? It honestly makes more sense to you that Dr. Strange can, at will, rape these entities of their power and use it? Based on a one time showing of him doing so (under extreme universe ending circumstances) you make the leap towards thinking that it is an at will ability?

    Second, if he could call on the power of people at will don't you think he would have done it in other cases? Against Shuma Gorath? He didn't do that. He gradually increased in power over a number of battles. Why didn't he just channel uber cosmic entities? The 2 times he lost when fighting Galactus, why didn't he just channel uber cosmic entities? When he was fighting Green Scar Hulk why didn't he just channel uber cosmic entities and save the world?

    Maybe because he can't? Sounds logical doesn't it? Yeah, a little bit.

    You and Yak both keep claiming that the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak is a summons, but it is nothing more than a spell....and not one that Strange alone can cast. Big hairy deal, he can cast a spell more than one time. Does that prove he can call on the power of Cyttorak? Hell no.

    How about you refer back to the In-Betweener instance, or the Shuma Gorath instance, or the Hulk instance.

    In all 3 cases Strange didn't simply snap his fingers and become a god. In all 3 instances he either had to use prep time, or rely upon a special one time only circumstance in order to accomplish his feats.

    1) Prep was clearly used for Dr. Strange to go back to his abode and channel the power of Zom.
    2) Strange clearly went through a series of power-ups in his quest to stop Shuma-Gorath, power-ups that were clearly far above his normal and of which he lost at the end of the conflict.
    3) Against the In-Betweener, he relied upon the Vishanti lending him aid through the Orb and the Lords of Chaos and Order to stop their own agent from destroying the universe which they are tasked to keep the balance of.

    Go out and find a single instance of Strange channeling this level of power that doesn't require some kind of special back story or prep time. Please do so, Yak hasn't done so since the start of the draft. Go find it and post it, and be sure that you read the full story to know how he gained the power to summon the power of these cosmic beings.
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 5, 2013
  9. whiteeagle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2004
    star 6
  10. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    All I can say to this hair splitting, channeling power, spell, summons, whatever is WOW. I mean who pissed in your cheerios?

    Personally I hope we both lose this match Yak, good point.

    EDIT: [face_laugh] @whiteeagle
    Last edited by The_Chim, Apr 5, 2013
  11. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    That isn't splitting hairs. That is 3 completely separate abilities that end with completely different results.

    Summoning: Bringing a being/entity/creature physically to a battlefield.
    Channeling: Drawing on a being/entities power and using your own body as a conduit.
    Spell: Has nothing to do with a separate entity, it is only forming the magical energy to give a desired result.

    Makes a huge difference when you are discussing Dr. Strange, and the lack of understanding explains why a few people just think he can waltz around doing what he wants at will.

    If you spent 1/3 as much time researching a character/match as you do complaining about results after the fact you would know that.
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 5, 2013
  12. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Time out, says Cecil Peoples.

    [IMG]

    Judgment is coming. Tonight.

    Been sick for some part of the week, but carry on with discussions ifyouplease.
    Last edited by heels1785, Apr 5, 2013
  13. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Nobody should ever listen to Cecil Peoples. Ever.
  14. DarthIntegral Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    I do love the hyperbole drafts bring out of people.

    On one side, we've got those who act like Strange can do nothing on the fly and is completely hopeless unless he is prepared.

    On the other side, we've got those who act like Strange is up against Jimmy Olson or Aunt May and should in no way be threatened or challenged to win the match.

    Yup.

    Good to have the draft back.
  15. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Couldn't have said it better. +1
  16. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    I have never once said that, I have made a point of mentioning more than a few times that he is extremely powerful even without prep. All I have done is shed some light on this trash that people want to think about him taking out people like Galactus and the In-Betweener without help/prep or channeling cosmic entities when ever he wants.

    Yak and Kalar fixate on that rather than showing all the things we know he can do without prep. If they want to let that stuff go unsaid that is their problem.

    There is plenty of stuff he can do, and he is very easily a top round pick...again, I never suggested that he wasn't.

    But yeah, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman are nothing but boobs who have no shot at winning fights. Even though one is a demi-god who is as strong as Superman and has better h3h skills to boot, and has some amazingly powerful artifacts on her person at all times. The other is the most powerful telepath on Earth who has an entire list of abilities.

    But yes, still "boobs".
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 5, 2013
  17. DarthIntegral Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    You completely missed the point
  18. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    Probably, I tend to do that. Since I am the only one arguing the prep side I assumed you were referring to me.
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 5, 2013
  19. DarthIntegral Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
  20. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    So the point was? When did I ever say he was completely hopeless without prep? Haven't said that at all.

    There is a lot of space in between hopeless and being as powerful as high end cosmic beings you know.
    Last edited by Mikaboshi, Apr 5, 2013
  21. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    This is making me, actually, genuinely sad.

    So will closing tomorrow.
    Last edited by MandaloreYak, Apr 5, 2013
    Hokage_Kalar likes this.
  22. whiteeagle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2004
    star 6
    If I put this much effort of disproving what Strange is and what Strange isn't into regular life I'd have my Ph.D by now. Just sayin
    Last edited by whiteeagle, Apr 5, 2013
  23. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Some people are capable of thinking outside the box others...well others, they are the box.


    I like to think of things from the villains point of view instead of the heroes, Villains Comic ya know? Just imagine a comic all about them and how they see things....

    "How did they get the best of me..., AGAIN?" Said every villain ever. Just from the idea alone anyone should be able to see things in a different light. I mean did Strange have prep for 9023875906 hours or did he come in knowing whatever he knew and just SHAZAM made magic happen? Who knows? I mean all I know is I just got owned here. Whatever, I'll just blame the writers.
  24. Mikaboshi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 6
    No thanks, I already have a full time sales job as well as owning a small business. A Ph.D would just be excessive.
  25. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    OK, I'm here. Sorry, guys, been battling a stomach bug off and on throughout the week.

    Here we go:

    Exodus (prep) vs. Darkseid

    Yikes.

    Winner: Darkseid

    Extant vs. Thor/Surfer

    Way too much here, even though I give Mikaboshi huge props for his work on Extant. I don't see many losses in his future, but this trump could take out just about anyone.

    Winner: Thor/Surfer

    CNX vs. Ion

    If CNX is able to get her hooks in early and control the lantern, she could win. However, Ion has reasonable defense against mental fragging, and physically, it's not even close.

    Winner: Ion

    Strange vs. Sentry

    Ugh. Not happy to see this as the first matchup for either of you here, because I am high on each of these teams, and this is matchup is going to knock out somebody's big gun early. That being said, without spending much time defending a past judgment, the way I saw WW/MM against Strange does not necessarily mean that anyone who can bumrush Strange before he gets a spell off will win. That trump was about as cohesive as you can possibly get, outside of perhaps Superman/WW, and I saw them as uniquely capable to provide enough defense to inflict the physical damage to pull off a close win.

    Now, we have one of the ultimate physical talents, Sentry, against the clear king of magic, Strange. Perhaps I missed it, but these two have faced off before, with Sentry physically restrained, no less.

    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/109250/2239961-1.jpg
    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/109250/2239962-2.jpg
    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/109250/2239963-3.jpg
    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/109250/2239964-4.jpg

    I know this is peak Strange. However, it is also unprepped Strange (Yak, I cannot for the life of me understand your stubbornness on this one). Sentry shows in these scans that he has adequate defense against Strange's reality manipulation, so I have to assume that, given this instance, he would win this match 51 out of 100 times. Extraordinarily close, but I go Sentry.

    Winner: Sentry