Amph The Comic Book Character Draft ReduX [Ed: That's #10 for those keeping score]

It's just odd that this is the only arc with those powers on display, and so close to the crisis.

 

would suggest that they wanted to finish that arc... before they had the changes from the crisis take effect. least, that's what it seems like to me.

 

I tried to do some digging and that blogspot post was the only thing I could find on my own that had anything close to actual dates. A little strange.

 

Yeah, they just plan these things last minute and rush through them Trim. No pre-planning at all.

Crisis started in August of 1985 and ran through March of 1986 (released 12 issues total).

The Despero arc started in January of 1986 and ended in September of 1986 (10 issues total).

The Despero arc started a full 6 months after Crisis started and only 2 months before it ended, it continued 6 months after Crisis wrapped up. Crisis was almost over before the Despero story even came out.

Again, up to the judges and commissioner, but the event clearly went past the Crisis wrap up.

 

the fact that despero hasn't shown those particular abilities sense is kind of interesting though. that's why i said what i did, not that it wasn't planned out or anything, just that they may have decided to tell said story regardless and then nerf him after it. which seems to be what happened if he's not doing that stuff anymore.

 

He hasn't shown them because the Flame of Py'tar was destroyed at the end of that arc, but in fact the only abilities he lost was the matter and reality manipulation. He kept all his enhanced physical attributes, his teleportation and telepathy feats (which he had before, but were stronger from this point on), flight.

He did keep all the other attributes he gained in that arc though.

 

Well, Darkseid post-crisis hasn't exactly been a world-ender either. He has occasionally been portrayed like that but he's been gradually powered down as well to where a Superman or Orion can beat him.

Despero's situation is weird bc he kept everything from the power-up but the reality warping and pyromancy.

 

Well, just a couple of things. 1) you said this was a sustained peak for more than a year: false, both in the published issue dates and in the timeline of the story arc. 2) if he retained the other powers but not those notable exceptions, why should they not be considered temporary(disregarding anything before this arc as this was the first appearance during/after the crisis. 3) during the crisis is when it started, whether or not it was almost over. I don't know for a fact, but continuity wise that puts it into something of a gray area for me. Just because it ended after doesn't mean it wasn't pitched, created, and written prior to the reset.

 

I am sure a lot of things were pitched prior to the crisis event but didn't happen until after, I guess I don't see what difference it makes when a story concept was developed. Seems to make more of a difference as to when it actually happened or was released.

Crisis was over before the Despero Arc was over, that is all I know. Whether that makes the Despero thing officially a post or pre crisis event, I don't know. Seems like if anything it is post crisis just based on the dates.

I wasn't 100% sure on the time until I looked up the dates of the releases after you asked for them but I knew it was right around a year, I guess I could have been shady about it and not said anything once I found out but honesty is always the best policy.

It's not like it was that far off from a year anyway, 2 issues or 3 months, so it was close. Big whoop, as you said a year wasn't ever an official bench mark anyway.

No need to argue about it, you are the commissioner if you don't like it go with your gut. Like I said, it is up to you and the judges. Since you asked for dates I just went out and tried to find the information you asked for.

It is my job to give it the best pitch possible, but at the end of the day it isn't really a big deal one way or another.

 

My loss is taking a long time. Can we speed it up?

 

After doing a bit more research, looks like anything that happened prior to the release of the Crisis event is considered pre-crisis, anything that happens from the start of the Crisis event forward is considered post-crisis. The Crisis event itself is a canon post-crisis event, and was the start of the rebooted DC rather than the end of the old DC universe.

They write up and explanation of it specifically cites that current post crisis characters reference the crisis event and is considered a part of the post crisis DC universe.

So anything happening after the start of the Crisis event is considered post-crisis from what I can tell, unless I am reading it wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths#Post-Crisis

Take it for what you will, still up to you and the judges. Just putting out all the information I can find so you can make the best call on it.

 

that... strikes me as a very odd way of deciding that. i mean, i'd think you'd have it broken up like this: pre, crisis, post. since you have so much actually changing in the crisis and so much in flux and all. but what do i know.

 

Odd or not that seems to be the way DC defines it. Until I read that I always assumed that Crisis was the end of the old DC universe rather than the start of the new DC universe, but it seems I was wrong.

The characters who were introduced and the characters who died in the event are post crisis canon, the event itself is referenced in post crisis events. The start of the Crisis event was the cut off between post and pre crisis rather than the end of the event based on that.

 

Sticking with my initial lean of Despero, even if it's now closer than I originally thought. Marvel, badass as he is, is really almost a non-factor here. In what practically amounts to a one-on-one, I still like Despero here.

 

Characters and other elements established before the series, especially those eliminated by it, were referred to as pre-Crisis, while revised ones were considered post-Crisis. As a result, the series and its events eventually became known simply as "The Crisis", an informal title that would persist among fans, readers, and even the DC editorial staff, for almost 20 years.

I believe what others are saying is that the story started during crisis. The planning and writing of it were NOT taking into account what was going on in the crisis event. In fact, the super heroes mention in the Despero storyline were also in the crisis events, which I would argue puts the Despero arc chronological in Pre-Crisis, before crisis. Not to mention those powers were never seen again. I have a hard time considering any of that relevant for this draft. And even though your honesty is a good thing, I hope people here wouldn't be dishonest about a comic draft.

I don't agree, I could be wrong with my interpretation, but I also quoted wikipedia above... seems like they do consider crisis a period.

 

wasn't saying that wasn't how they did it or anything, just that it's extremely strange. doesn't really matter one way or the other to me, since it's rather moot.

 

Trimaj, I actually think you're right. IMHO it seems there are 3 periods, pre, crisis, and post...

 

well, if there's an official word on it then i'm pretty obviously not. if that's conjecture, then i might be. having not looked at the link or anything, i wouldn't know one way or the other.

 

So now you are just making up a new period that has never been defined by DC? DC has never referenced it as Pre-Crisis, Crisis & Post-Crisis, so that can't be the way they think about it.

" Characters and other elements established before the series, especially those eliminated by it, were referred to as pre-Crisis, while revised ones were considered post-Crisis."

Despero seems to benefited from being revised during the Crisis event, so that would be post-Crisis based on the above quote. Seems to make sense since before Crisis Despero was a think and physically weak despot, during the Crisis event he was reborn by the flame and kept all but the the reality manip powers which he eventually lost. All other powers he gained in this time he did keep though.

"Crisis on Infinite Earths was used by DC as an opportunity to wipe much of its slate clean and make major changes to many of their major revenue-generating comic book series."

The event itself was an opportunity to start the DC universe off on a clean slate, and the events that happen in the event clearly carry forward and are relevant in the rebooted universe. What came before is what was chopped from the canon timeline.

 

Personally, I'd disregard the matter/reality stuff, since they never show up again. To me, that doesn't say "sustained".


And I'm pretty sure what DC actually means is that post-crisis characters are aware of the crisis, but the events of the crisis still reset everything. I'm on my phone still so I'm not going to type out the elaborate explanation that I think they actually have in mind.

 

I am okay with disregarding the matter/reality stuff, figured it couldn't hurt to bring it up but wasn't really counting on it.

 

In fact, Despero was also in Crisis on Infinite Earth:
In the frozen wastelands of Earth-S, Doctor Sivana, Doctor Cyber, Per Degaton, Houngan, Phobia, Despero, Deathbolt, Hector Hammond and Professor T.O. Morrow keep watch over the captured members of the Marvel Family.
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths
This further shows in my mind that the comics you are referencing are remnants of Pre-Crisis wrapping up.

I'd go further and say that all his strength feats from that story line should be disregarded as well. Not the powers, but the height of them.

 

Call it what you want Kalar, not going to argue about it. Crisis was clearly the reboot of the new DC universe rather than the wrap up of the old one. Character deaths, revisions and introductions that took place in the event clearly carry forward as the new DC universe canon.