~The Complete Saga: The Saga and EIII **EIII Spoilers Allowed**~

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Spike_Spiegel, Jul 28, 2004.

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  1. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Hi, as per requested by BaronFel88, I have made this little haven where we can analyze the impact of EIII in the whole Saga. Feel free to use EIII spoilers and those of you who are spoiler free better get the heck out!

    Well, start the discussion and enjoy!
  2. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    This thread should provide some good discussion where we won't have hold anything back.
  3. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    This line from an article about Keisha-Castle-Hughes' character got me wondering:

    In the Star Wars universe the Queen of Naboo is elected. Amidala has relinquished her crown to fight the bad guys. But whether the new queen ? mysteriously named Aiwha Rider ? is on the side of good or evil is still unknown.

    Although this is a fairly naive article (Aiwha Rider is not the Queen's name), the fact that her alleigance was unknown makes it interesting. It's possible the new Queen could merely be a figurehead (almost like Amidala was) as part of a puppet government that will soon be replaced by an Imperial governor. Perhaps Palpatine plants a queen there only to assure the Naboo (he could do this to other systems too) that everything is fine. Who knows, maybe Queen Jamilla was just a stopgap that was forced out of office for someone easier to control.

    What's more interesting is that Amidala's predecessor, King Veruna, had a term mired in controversy (he was essentially forced out of office-perhaps this was precipitated by Palpatine?). As a result, Amidala won in a landslide. Palpatine had plans for Amidala, as not only did she allow him to become Supreme Chancellor, she was also an important tool used to drvie a wedge between Anakin and Obi-Wan. I think this just shows how cunning Palpatine was.
  4. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    sometimes i just have to smile and shake my head on how good palps is, he's the kind of guy you don't want to mess with
  5. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    That Palpatine is the guy who makes the PT all worth it in my opinion.
  6. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    When I heard a PT was being made way back when, I always wanted to know how Palpatine became Emperor, and now we have answers. But the complexity of Palpatine's plan for Anakin and the rest of the galaxy is really quite amazing.

    But I think the tragic aspect of the PT works well too, as it's a downward spiral from TPM to Aotc to RotS.
  7. Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 4
    EP III will enrich both the PT and the OT. It will be unbelievable the have the COMPLETE saga.

    The life of Anakin Skywalker - His youth, his training, his rise, his fall, his dastardly deeds, his redemption and finally his death. Very cool.
  8. OBIX1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah,back before the PT,I always just assumed that Palpatine was a politician/Dark Side user who became head of the Republic,it went to his head,and he desided to declare himself Emperor.I never knew it would be such a huge plan.With him trying to control everyone and act like he's the good guy in the process.I think it's a instresting part of the Saga,to see how this one man could fool almost everyone in the Republic,even the Jedi.And,I think it'll be really instresting to see how he reveils who he really is the the Jedi in ROTS.And their reaction to it. :)
  9. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    It looks like he's pretty able with the saber too, if you watch the demo closely.
  10. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I think the one thing that makes the PT so brilliant but yet causes it to be shunned by so many fans of the originals is the complex nature of the story. In the PT, everything is distorted and in the grey scope of things where you're not really sure who is what and what their true intentions are. While in the OT, it is the complete opposite with every character either having that clear cut characteristic of black or white, Imperial or Rebel. It greatly enriches the entire saga and I think many people will realize this in the years to come.
  11. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    I also think Padmé's supposed (it's generally accepted) death is important, cause it just shows how 'twisted and evil' Anakin becomes. The fact that Obi-Wan witnesses the final encounter between the two makes the line in RotJ more significant. The Temple raid also takes Anakin to new levels of villainy.
  12. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    The fact that Obi-Wan witnesses the final encounter between the two makes the line in RotJ more significant.


    Great point. I completely overlooked that fact.
  13. Keeper_of_Swords Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 5

    Episode 3 will link perfectly the originals to the prequels except for one thing: Padme's death.

    I think that the excuse that Leia remembers Padme is going to be that she was the first of the two twins to be born. I know starwars is fantasy, but this isn't convincing enough.

    Still I think it's the best way to link this to the scene in Return of the Jedi because if Leia remembers a handmaiden not her real mother that would cheapen the scene greatly.

    Also as Padme's a main character she's got to be seen dying in one of the movies (Not offscreen between Episodes 3 and 4)

    Still, even if she more strong in the Force then Luke when she was born, I still don't see it as convincing that she remembers Padme, because that conversation in Return of the Jedi portrayed the image that Leia was about 2 or 3 years old when her mother died.
  14. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    that's what i imagined, she was at least 2 as she could have said that padme died when she was born, not when she was very young.

    Still I think it's the best way to link this to the scene in Return of the Jedi because if Leia remembers a handmaiden not her real mother that would cheapen the scene greatly.

    i don't think George is going to go down this path, i he does i will be severely disapointed
  15. OBIX1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2002
    star 6
    "I think the one thing that makes the PT so brilliant but yet causes it to be shunned by so many fans of the originals is the complex nature of the story. In the PT, everything is distorted and in the grey scope of things where you're not really sure who is what and what their true intentions are. While in the OT, it is the complete opposite with every character either having that clear cut characteristic of black or white, Imperial or Rebel."

    Your right,Dash.In the OT you knew that Vader was bad,Luke was good.End of story.But in the PT,it makes you think:Are some of worlds who join the CIA really bad? Or do they honestly want something better from the Republic? And some of the Republic senators are bad,even though they represent the good side.Like you said,things are more gray. :)
  16. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    Relating to the "Main character of the saga" thread, RotS adds a whole new layer to Obi-Wan's character, cause of what he goes through during the process. The last thirty-forty minutes of the movie will be pretty tough, as Obi-Wan has no choice but to fight his former friend and colleague and while trying to bring Anakin back to the good side, fails, and Obi-Wan must flee knowing the galaxy is in turmoil, but to add more grief, it's possible Padmé dies in his arms (a little over the top, but he will most likely see her pass away). That's a lot for one man to go through.
  17. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    I must make this thread a frequent stop as we progress!

  18. OBIX1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2002
    star 6
    BaroneFel:Yeah,I agree.Through the course of ROTS,Obi-Wan will have to:

    -Help Anakin fight Dooku
    -Destroy Grevious
    -Fight Anakin
    -"See" the Jedi order fall apart
    -See Padme die (possibly)
    -Deliver Luke to the Lars

    and who knows what else?


    I'd be pretty stressed out by the end of the movie if I were him. ;)
  19. Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 4
    [i[Episode 3 will link perfectly the originals to the prequels except for one thing: Padme's death. [/i]

    I'm still hoping that Padme will not die, but be given a few years to live and go to Alderaan with Leia and Bail. I don't think this will happen though.
  20. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    For the most part I am spoiler free.
    I do know a couple of things.
    I apologize for not reading the entire thread...I did want to make a point.

    It seems that Timothy Zahn had an incredible influence on these prequels. Now Lucas did decide that the capital world would be covered in city. The original artists did paint pictures of the city planet. Zahn did give the planet the name Coruscant and did insure that it would be the way he wanted it to be. he was not the first to think about it but he did insure that it was used the way he had it. I mean he put it in print officially.

    Then I heard Kashyyyk is in the film. If this is true then they would probably use Zahn's descriptions of the planet. I mean sure GL decided that Kashyyyk would be a forest world. Zahn brought it to live in Heir to the Empire.

    So Timothy Zahn has had some influence over the PT as a whole.

    -Seldon
  21. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    there's not only Zahn who's influenced Kashyyyk, there's the (BAD MATERIAL WARNING) holiday special

    It's pronounced Kaschook i thinkm it's hard to write it phonetically. Zahn's had a lot of influence, take Coruscant for instance. I'm looking forward when his intra-trilogy novels come out post ROTS.

    BTW Spike, could you change the title of this thread to make it Revenge of the Sith? or is that spoiling as well?
  22. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I don't think ROTS is a spoiler.
    after all they re-named 3NS to Revenge of the Sith Non Spoilers.

    Anyway I know Zahn did not create either planet but he described both in TTT.

    -Seldon
  23. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    he didn't create them? that's news to me.

    EDIT: (from the OS) Author Timothy Zahn gave Coruscant its name in his 1991 novel, Heir to the Empire. When it came time to finally unveil the galactic capital on the big screen in the revamped ending of the Return of the Jedi Special Edition release, Lucas adopted the name Coruscant.

    anyway....

    one of the things that George said that we'll be able to understand more is the red of the Imperial guards. did they murder anyone? who knows!

    another author who has considerable influence, or at least GL's ear, is Alan Dean Foster. he, after all, ghost wrote ANH novel and he's had two since.
  24. mr-mynock1 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Umm, I disagree. Zahn's influence is pretty minimal. While he did coin the name Corousant, the concept of a completely industrial planet loosely referred to as the Imperial City was well known. Using a name for the sake of continuity on an established concept does not show significant influence. The planet Kashyyyk was also brought into the light by another and far more influencial novelist Allan Dean Foster. If a novelist has had influence on the SW universe it is him. In my opinion Zahn's imagery of these planets is minimal once you have established a planet entirely covered by technological cities for generations, and a forest planet the rest is obvious to any follower of SCI-FI. (The Time Machine, Metropolis, Bladerunner, etc...) Perhaps one should look at what influenced Zahn, and credit their influence not his. In my honest opiniion Zahn offered nothing to the SW universe that any Fan Fic writer could not have done better. Infact he weakened it significantly.

    GD
  25. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    well without Zahn we wouldn't have the EU, would we? I suppose LFL would get another author.

    but let's not get off topic, who got the contract for the EpIII novel? is Jedi Trial going to be the last book before the last big bang?
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