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~The Complete Saga: The Saga and EIII **EIII Spoilers Allowed**~

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Spike_Spiegel, Jul 28, 2004.

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  1. BaronFel88

    BaronFel88 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Well, there haven't been many bombshells recently, but there can be plenty of speculation.
     
  2. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    On this board you either love Zahn or you hate him. But I don't see any reason to bash him into the ground. He has had some influence on the PT. Whether you like him and his ideas is beside the point. But it is hard to deny the fact that every piece of EU that takes place after TTT has been influenced by TTT.

    -Seldon
     
  3. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Point.

    sorry, i couldn't resist ;)

    Where were we? I heard in ROTJ audio commentary Lucas says that Anakin dies in ROTS, so what Ben tells Luke is true, his father did die.

    but that's only half the truth
     
  4. OBIX1

    OBIX1 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2002
    "but let's not get off topic, who got the contract for the EpIII novel?"

    Matthew Stover.


    "is Jedi Trial going to be the last book before the last big bang? "

    Nope.There's going to be-Yoda: Dark Rendezvous,Secrets of the Jedi (a Legacy of the Jedi sequel),and Labryinth Of Evil (the ROTS lead in novel.) :)


     
  5. RathCycle

    RathCycle Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2001
    Where were we? I heard in ROTJ audio commentary Lucas says that Anakin dies in ROTS, so what Ben tells Luke is true, his father did die.

    It is my personal belief that Lucas is speaking just as much from a "certain point of view" as Obi-Wan was. Obi-Wan spoke of death as the good in Anakin dying and the evil taking over--and it makes sense that Lucas would speak of this in the same sense. Episode III, after all, is about Anakin's fall to the dark side. His "death by dark side" is the logical interpretation of Lucas' words in this case.

    On this board you either love Zahn or you hate him.

    That isn't always the case, though. I enjoy some of Zahn's work, and some of it I don't enjoy. Not everything has to be all or nothing.

    But I don't see any reason to bash him into the ground.

    Me either.

    He has had some influence on the PT. Whether you like him and his ideas is beside the point. But it is hard to deny the fact that every piece of EU that takes place after TTT has been influenced by TTT.

    Yet this really has nothing to do with the actual discussion. Yes, Zahn had some influence to a point, but it isn't something that the discussion needs to focus on.

    Lucas still has the final say on the films (as should be quite obvious), and is under no obligation to use anything from the Expanded Universe in his films. While I am glad that he does from time to time, as I am a fan of the Expanded Universe, there is no rule stating that he must.

    Which brings to surface the topic of who the Expanded Universe character in Episode III will be, if he/she/it makes the final cut. We already know for certain that it won't be a Zahn character, or any other major Expanded Universe character. It should be a minor character with visual appeal, just like Aayla was when she was placed in Attack of the Clones.
     
  6. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    I know one thing, if the last words of RotS are Kenobi whispering to the infant Luke " May the force be with you " Im gonna break down into tears.
     
  7. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    I look forward to the novel by Matthew Stover much more than the film.
    It will be an excellent book regardless of how the film comes out.
     
  8. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Yeah, Stover is a great writer. Its really a credit to whoever picked him to write the novel. To me he really gives the EU credibilty, much more than Brooks and Salvatore, who are two big market millonaire writers, but cant hold a candle to Stovers' skill. Stephen King ( or Neil Gaiman ) writing the novel about the origins of Palpatine would be the ultimate score for SW fans, EU lover or not. ( I, by the way, am not ).
     
  9. DarthMatter

    DarthMatter Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Can't say for sure until May, but I think ROTS will probably pull on all of the films and books like a huge gravity well or a black hole. We'll go back and watch/read PT/CT works and they will have yet another layer of meaning running through them...
     
  10. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    but after epIII the EU is all we will have
     
  11. darthsidious32

    darthsidious32 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    My opinion is that ROTS will bridge the two sagas together in such a way that even the ones who haven't liked the prequels thus far won't mind owning the six DVD box set.

    If ROTS is good enough (which it seems like it will be), those who hated the first two prequels but are smart enough will go back and re-evaluate the first two and find that they enjoy them much more than they once did. At least that's what the guy who's writing the ROTS novel thinks. I surely hope that's the case, because I think that the prequels thus far have been good and that ROTS will make them great as well as the rest of the saga.
     
  12. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    i have faith in george lucas, that has never wavered at all since i have been on here.

    one day i hope to sit down with my children and watch SW in one go, that i think is what he is aiming at.

    too bad you can only be spoiled once
     
  13. BaronFel88

    BaronFel88 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    I watched ESB today, and Obi-Wan's "but you cannot control it [the force]" line is great, because not only could it allude to Luke 'losing it' in the RotJ duel, but Anakin on Mustafar, as he betrays his two most trusted friends.
     
  14. poodookoo

    poodookoo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Great thread, people!

    One of the things I'm looking forward to seeing is whether non-Jedi Generals and Commanders will be introduced alongside the Jedi ones in EP3 (for example, in the opening battle) as part of the evolving Republic Army, or whether we'll have a scene at the end with the newly commisioned Imperial Navy, with brief introductions to young Tarkin, Ozzel, Veers, etc having completely replaced the Jedi Generals?
     
  15. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    But the complexity of Palpatine's plan for Anakin and the rest of the galaxy is really quite amazing.

    Lol, where is the complexity? It's a pile of plotholes with each new "twist" or question making it even more unbelievable. If you ask G£ to explain the rise of Palpatine, he won't know and start explaining to you how great Jar Jar Binks is.

    Your right,Dash.In the OT you knew that Vader was bad,Luke was good.End of story.But in the PT,it makes you think:Are some of worlds who join the CIA really bad? Or do they honestly want something better from the Republic?

    I don't buy this. In the PT, you can make as clear distinctions; heck, Darth Maul is even made similar to the Devil himself!!
    Padmé is good, Jar Jar is good, R2 is good etc etc. No probs.
    You can say the same things about the OT: Are all planets under the Empire bad, or are they good but on the bad side?
    Is Luke being evil with the Gamorrean guards? Etc.


    I'm still hoping that Padme will not die, but be given a few years to live and go to Alderaan with Leia and Bail. I don't think this will happen though.

    If she dies in EP3, many old SW fans will cheer. Next to Jar Jar, she's a very bad character.


    Zahn did give the planet the name Coruscant and did insure that it would be the way he wanted it to be.

    Which is a complete shame, considering the dark elegance of Ralph McQuarrie's original designs for Had Abaddon/Coruscant.


    I know one thing, if the last words of RotS are Kenobi whispering to the infant Luke " May the force be with you " Im gonna break down into tears.

    Me too - laughing.

    If ROTS is good enough (which it seems like it will be), those who hated the first two prequels but are smart enough will go back and re-evaluate the first two and find that they enjoy them much more than they once did.

    A nice icecream doesn't make me want to go back to the bathroom to pick up, and eat, two turds.


    one day i hope to sit down with my children and watch SW in one go, that i think is what he is aiming at.

    They'll be all over your living room for the first six hours, finding something more interesting to do. You better
    start with Ep4 ;)
     
  16. -_-_-_-_-_-

    -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Upping incase anyone felt the need to discuss any details revealed in the teaser trailer and their revelance to the saga.
     
  17. lightsaber_wielder

    lightsaber_wielder Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    In A New Hope, I noticed something that is quite curious (well, it's curious with ROTS coming up, anyway).

    When revealing certain facts of the past to Luke, Obi-Wan explains some of Darth Vader's history. He says, "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil..."

    Later, when Kenobi and Vader confront each other on the Death Star, Vader has something similar to say. "When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master."

    Curious, indeed, when viewed in the context of the entire, six-episode saga. I say curious because, as has been known for quite a while now, it has been confirmed that Anakin Skywalker is no longer a Jedi Padawan in Revenge of the Sith, but has long since been promoted to the rank of Knight, and (possibly) even holds a seat on the Jedi Council.

    Now, I know that the original films were made first (obviously), so there are bound to be some inconsistencies with the prequels. However, would it not have been easy for George Lucas to have kept Anakin as a Padawan Learner in Episode III? That way, there would have been no inconsistencies, and everything would make sense.

    As it is, I am led to believe that Obi-Wan and Vader have both come to a similar decision: Anakin truly LEFT Obi-Wan before he became a Jedi Knight. Both seem to feel that Anakin was still a learner when he left Obi-Wan, indicating that he was of lesser status. Or perhaps Anakin speaks in such a fashion due to the fact that he was beaten by Kenobi - he may, in fact, have been "humbled" (or, more appropriately, shamed) by his defeat on Mustafar. At any rate, the statements of these former friends indicate that they believe that Anakin may have been prematurely promoted to Jedi Knight - he didn't really complete his learning at the hands of Obi-Wan.

    What do you think?
     
  18. MatthewZ

    MatthewZ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Kenobi is a Jedi Master

    Skywalker a Jedi Knight


    So, Kenobi still outranks him.
     
  19. Spike_Spiegel

    Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Also realize that in that sort of relationship, the master is always the master and the student is always the student simply because the master has more experience. I will always be the teacher to my students, no matter if the already graduated.
     
  20. NZPoe

    NZPoe Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Lol, where is the complexity? It's a pile of plotholes with each new "twist" or question making it even more unbelievable. If you ask G£ to explain the rise of Palpatine, he won't know and start explaining to you how great Jar Jar Binks is.

    [face_laugh] but the George Lucas who made the 1977 SW could do a better job right? Right. ;)

     
  21. BaronFel88

    BaronFel88 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Lol, where is the complexity? It's a pile of plotholes with each new "twist" or question making it even more unbelievable. If you ask G£ to explain the rise of Palpatine, he won't know and start explaining to you how great Jar Jar Binks is.

    Well, you can either view the events leading up to Palpatine's rise to power as coincidence/sheer luck or intense calculation and plotting. I'd like to think it's the latter.
     
  22. BaronFel88

    BaronFel88 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    One thing that disappointed me about the recent Anakin-Dooku duel pic is the look on Dooku's face before he gets beheaded. Maybe I'm too much of a fan, but I've believed that Dooku would laugh or cackle knowing that Anakin would step down the dark path.
     
  23. Hades2021

    Hades2021 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2003
    I think Dooku's face looks good. That's just how I imagined Vader's face in ROTJ when Luke has him beat.
     
  24. ome

    ome Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2004
    think that GL has used a concept so far:

    if you thought that one character is superior...you're wrong:
    yoda=bested

    vader=bested

    obi 1(once you see the end of ROTS you may think he's superior since he's beaten the chosen one)= kinda beaten

    anakin(once you see him slaughtering dooku)= kinda beaten

    dooku=beaten

    and now maybe sidious=beaten
    and so have Luke but no one has ever thought he was ever strong... :p

    darth maul which bested qui gon=kinda beaten

    and grievous...who looks invincible=beaten somehow

    so...what do you think?

     
  25. StarSmuggler

    StarSmuggler Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2004
    I think that Lucas likes showing a character or a group of characters that are percieved as weaker beating the big bad, strong guy. Even the Ewoks prove this. They are small and they don't have the advanced technology of the Empire, but, they still help the Rebels win. The Rebel Alliance is also like this, too. THey are smaller, and they don't have the big AT-ATs or the AT-STs, but they still manage to win the war.
     
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