~The Complete Saga: The Saga and EIII **EIII Spoilers Allowed**~

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Spike_Spiegel, Jul 28, 2004.

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  1. Jedi_Lancer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2003
    star 1
    What I want to know with regards to the entire Saga (I thought of this today while watching episode 1) is what was Palpatine's original plan for himself and the Galaxy and when did he have to start improvising.

    It has been said that Sidious didn't expect Maul to die and from watching the movie, there were other things that happened that Palpidious didn't expect. As much as he forsaw things, I know he was improvising at some point.

    So again, my basic question is what was his original plan for himself and the galaxy (meaning how did he plan on becoming the leader of the known universe?)

    EDIT: I just found a thread on this
  2. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5
    I'm starting to get confused about the force after reading the latest spoilers by Motee. Maybe someone can clarify things for me.

    As I understand it we now have the living force and the unifying force. What exactly each of these is has become confusing enough for me but now I have no idea how the dark side plays into all of this. The midis make my dilema even worse! Are there dark and light midis? What exactly is the dark side in relation to the living and unifying force?

    Before the PT I always felt that there were two "forces", so to speak. The dark side and the light side and I always felt that they were in constant conflict with each other. Now I don't know after seeing Ep1 and 2 and then reading the spoilers for Ep3.

    Can anyone please clarify "the force" for me? What is the dark side and the light side? And what is the deal with Anakin "balancing" the force? How does that play into the dark side and the light side?

    Any help on clarifying this increasingly complicated issue would be much appreciated.
  3. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    The Force is a good presense in the galaxy. The Light side is the way things should be.

    Some persons who are force sensitive choose to use that power for their own personal gains in attempts to gain power and "understanding through power". This is the darkside of the force.

    As the darkside grow the Force starts to fall out of balance. When Anakin returns to the light side and kills the Emperor.......there are no more darkside users left. Therefore, the force is once again in balance.
  4. StarSmuggler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2004
    star 4
    I also saw the Force as being made up of two sides- the Light and Dark sides. This is also why the Balance Prophesy in a way, doesn't make sense to me. Balance to me, implies equal amounts of good and evil in the galaxy. Balance of the Force implies equal amounts of good and evil in the Force. If we follow the rule of two thing, then by the end of ROTS, Sidious and Vader will be the only Sith left. In ROTJ, Sidious gets killed and Vader dies. No Sith left. NO evil in the Force left. Is this Balance? So now the Force has become the LIving Force and the Unifying Force an it is between those that balance has to be brought? What about good vs evil. If the balance was to be brought between Living and Unifying, then the Sith and good vs evil become a backstory to the good jedi (Qui) setting into motion the balnce between Living and Unifying. This changes things greatly.
  5. Tion_Meddon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2004
    star 4
    Love unifying the Saga:

    Unselfish Love is Good, Possesive Love is Evil, it has never been spelled out to anyone before, this is the last change for GL to show the audience directly what the saga is all about in case they haven't figured it put yet in the last 28 years.

    Anakin was good when he was on Tattoine because he was loving, brought up that way from his mother, and he could openly love, even slavery didn't take away that freedom from him. But after Qui-gon's death and the Council's acceptance of Anakin as Obi-wan's padawan, he was given freedom to everything he had before, but emotion was forbidden, including love. Since Anakin couldn't love openly he become attached to the few people he did mange to still secretly love, like Shmi and Padme. And too stay with the things the Jedi were trying to separate from him caused Anakin's fall into the darkside, but darkness destroys the true, original love completely, and causes the ones he loved to suffer.

    Qui-gon reveals to Obi-wan and Yoda, two of the few last survivors of the Jedi Order, their mistake was rejecting emotion, especially love. It can even save the Jedi from death, depending on their level of love. They allow Luke and Leia to have normal, loving lives, and if they are to be trained as Jedi, the Force will bring them to the Jedi. Luke is the one the Will of the Force chose to train as a Jedi, and the Will brought Han to Leia to have more force-sensitive children in case Luke fails with the knowledge of Leia still a secret from her father, and his master. Luke being brought up to love and encouraged to love made Luke a true Jedi, who risked death for his love towrd his father. And when Anakin felt that Love, Love borught him out of the darkness and back to the Light, and the way of the Jedi. Destroying the darkness, bringing balance to the Force, accepting death, and saving Luke all in one.

    THE STAR WARS CODE:
    The Father: The Force
    The Son: The Chosen One
    The Holy Ghost: The Loving Jedi
    The People: The Children
    The Devil: The Sith
    Hell: Negative Emotion, No Emotion
    Heaven: Love

    Agree?
  6. ScoobyDooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 3
    what the hay, I'll copy/paste my little essay from two other threads also:

    LOVE Star Wars. Like, more than a friend
    And it sounds like Lucas is going to make the overall theme of the Star Wars saga "Love", with the new info we've gotten about Qui Gon and his ideas on love conquering all, and being the "answer" to the force.
    To me this is the linchpin that will bind both trilogies together.
    I was cautiously worried about the differences between the trilogies til now. I love all the movies, and of course the originals are perfect as they are, but I was worried the two trilogies would be left feeling way too tonally different from each other.
    And i didnt see a way to correct it.
    But Qui Gon explaining to Yoda that love is the answer, and now looking at the original trilogy in that light...changes everything:
    Realizing that Luke and Leia are the first two major force users who's emotions have been allowed to develop,
    that Han's overall story arc isn't just some random smuggler who stumbled into the saga, but the source of love for Leia, and their lines "I love you" and "I know" in this new context,
    seeing the "emotional" beats of the stories in the OT as they are supposed to differ from the tactical, logical, and political beats of the PT,
    seeing Yoda and Luke's conversation about leaving training to help his friends,
    Luke and Han's conversations about Han's motivations in A New Hope, and Han and Leia's conversations and actions throughout Empire,
    and of course all the action in the throne room in that second Death Star.
    With this context in mind, everything doesnt feel as small in the OT, every little story point seems to matter more, and the whole saga seems to fit together seemlessly.
    It also gives the character of Qui Gon more of a point, and with his insight, more of a reason to be the main character in the first film.
    The more I think about it, and I've thought quite a bit, the more I think this is the best thing I've heard about Episode 3.
    I really hope this truly does make it into the final film.
    Your thoughts please.
  7. lightsaber_wielder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2002
    star 4
    I've been wondering, of late, whether we are going to buy Palpatine's death in Return of the Jedi anymore after seeing Revenge of the Sith. We know that Sidious is going to be absolutely amazing with his powers in ROTS, so I'm just wondering whether his rather weak death at the hands of Vader aboard the Death Star II is going to be plausible anymore.
  8. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    ^^

    His overconfidence was his weakness. He didn't think Vader had the ballz to take him out. He was wrong.
  9. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I've been wondering, of late, whether we are going to buy Palpatine's death in Return of the Jedi anymore after seeing Revenge of the Sith. We know that Sidious is going to be absolutely amazing with his powers in ROTS, so I'm just wondering whether his rather weak death at the hands of Vader aboard the Death Star II is going to be plausible anymore. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    According to a spoiler, Palpatine can only foresee evil acts, and the Jedi can only foresee good acts. The killing of Palpatine in this instance is a good act because he is doing it to save his son.
  10. Tion_Meddon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2004
    star 4

    Also, remember Palpatine has THREE duels in ROTS, and he wins in the end by having his life and becoming Emperor, but HE DOES LOSE TO ALL THREE DUELS!

    -He loses the first to Anakin, but Anakin spares him.

    -He loses the second to Mace Windu, and only kills him after Anakin creates the diversion of cutting off his hand

    -He is losing to Yoda, and by luck he got to zap Yoda in midair, and then the coward called in millions of clones to protect him
  11. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    The best spoiler so far has come today. C3PO has his memory wiped by Bail because of his big mouth and R2 is of course trusted. Both given as wards to the infant Leia, R2 knowing full well the Saga is far from over. My favorite character ever in movies and symbolically an adopted member of the Skywalker family. Great stuff. R2 is the hope in the many years leading to Luke, Leia and the rebellion. I love this!
  12. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I've always said, as a joke, that Artoo knows everything and is screaming to Luke all the time "He's your dad!" but Luke didn't understand him. Cool that its actually true!
  13. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    Theres two new pics that are quite frankly shocking - one of Anakin kneeling before Sidious in a hologram being viewed by Obi-Wan and one of Obi-Wan and Yoda walking throught the Jedi Temple with dead Jedi and Clone Troopers everywhere.
  14. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    I love the pic of Anakin choking Obi-Wan; the gloves completely come off for this duel. I can't wait to see the duel and hear Vader say "I've been waiting for you Obi-Wan.." in ANH.
  15. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    From what we've seen already, we know that punches will be thrown during The Duel.
  16. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    Well, this is the latest: No Dagobah. Im not sure how I feel about that.
  17. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I didn't necessarily take the report as that, but rather that we wouldn't see Yoda on the planet itself. We'll most likely get a space shot of Dagaboh as Yoda's escape pod plummets down to the surface.
  18. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, but whats that? To me thats just marginilizing an important character just to shorn a couple of minutes off the film. Cut Naboo if you have to cut something. Padme's dead, Jar-Jar, so what, and the Emporer has taken up residence elsewhere.
  19. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I disagree. Naboo has been an important part of the PT up to this point and simply cutting it out of the final installment of the PT would be bad storytelling, in addition to depriving the audience of any sort of closure in that regard.
  20. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    I thought the closure was adding it to RotJ. Honestly this is the only bad thing Ive heard so far concerrning RotS. Alot of people think its not that big of a deal, and I agree in a sense because I dont think it will make it any less of a great movie. I just think you could probably cut something a little bit more fluffy than the swamp of Dagobah with Yoda.
  21. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    What could be shown on Dagaboh that would be as beneficial to the story as showing Padmé's funeral on Naboo and giving that aspect of the saga a sense of closure? Yoda looking at the swamp and sighing? There are alot of things I'd like to see in ROTS but at some point you have to ask yourself how are these things beneficial to the plot and moving the story forward?
  22. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    I thought the funeral was on Alderran truth be told, so in that case your right. Still it doesnt hurt to actually show Yoda on Dagobah, since were left seeing the other bridge characters and where they end up. If Lucas is trying to make it a mystery for first time viewers of the future, then the Emporer saying something about Yoda being hunted and found at the end of RotS would help.
  23. Pitiful_Rebel_Band Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2004
    star 1
    I posted this reply to a thread that got locked in the 3SA...

    It addresses having only one Sith Apprentice through-out the Prequel until Anakin kills him versus having both Maul and Tyranus....


    Now that we basically know the whole Prequel Trilogy, I thought that if George had went and written the scripts at once all together instead going by just a basic outline, then writing each script before each movie, that a more fluid, tighter Trilogy could have been presented.

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE I, II, and am totally dying to see III, but I was thinking if maybe it would have had a few changes, it could of mirrored the OT better and been a better overall story, like this....

    Episode I:

    Introduce Darth Maul or Darth Tyranus in Episode I and have everything go exactly as it is, except have the Sith Lord make it out alive.

    When the Droid army prepares to fight the Gungans, introduce the Droid Leader, General Grievous, as he watches from a hill away from the battle. As the Droid control ship is destroyed, Grievous flees.

    Qui-Gon Jinn is killed, and then Obi-Wan and the Sith battle it out. Obi-Wan sends the Sith down the shaft and Grievous and the Sith escape to fight again in Episode II.....

    Episode II:

    Now in Episode II, have it go exactly as it did except have the Sith Lord order the clones for the Republic under the quise of Qui-Gon Jinn. As Obi-Wan talks to the Kamino people, he realizes there is something up. When Obi then gets captured, the Sith Lord tells him of how he is trying to destroy the Sith, all that wonderful stuff, exactly how it is now. And then in the Arena, have Grievous show how much of a Jedi Killer he is and that he should be feared even more....

    And then have EPIII exactly how it is...

    With those slight changes you have only 1 Sith Apprentice through-out, until Anakin kills him and eventually replaces him, an easily explained "Syfo-Dyas" clone ordering scam that viewers easily identify, and you have a Droid General established through-out the Prequel...

    Discuss???
  24. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    The first minute of the new trailer was just released on the 3SA. Very intriguing, not at all your typical SW trailer. It really gets into how Anakin and Palpatine bond ( it kinda spells it out if you ask me, but thats not the worst thing ). It also shows you Mace not trusting Anakin AT ALL.
  25. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I forsee bashers in the near future chiming on how GL showed Palpy and Anakin's bond and not Anakin and Ben's bond as friends.

    Cool description of the trailer, though. Everybody should check it out if they are spoiled. :)
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