Characters The Conference Room (A Jaina and Jag Discussion Thread) FOTJ: OMEN now out - what's next for J/J?

goddess45: PLEASE PLEASE DENNING let her be kicked outta the bug huggers club!!!!

Good one!



And I'm going to add my chant to

ALLSTON! ALLSTON!

 

I don't agree with this part.

For me it sounded like Leia wanted to calm the Hapan Commander, who as we know from the book was an @$$hole. With this she probably might have hurt Jag feelings but I think it was a good excuse from their earlier private talk with Jag in which they where talking in a friendly tone. And from the way Han and Leia where looking at this whole Jaina/Zekk hive "thing" we also got the idea that Leia actually seems to not like Zekk to much ( that line about taking Zekk to the academy becuase Jaina would not go ) And I think that, while Leia was not so far in Jaina and Jag relationship shipping, Han was all the way for them. He mentioned once that Jaina should have married Jag when she could have done it. Usually Han would probably be not so sure about it ( look The Final Prophecy ) but he said it being certain and mad at what was Jaina doing. And look at the end when he sees the situation with Jaina talking with Jag. When Zekk goes to join the talk Han is not happy. After the talk Han sees that Jaina is feeling sad and tries to cheer her up and then Zekk adds his line, which made Han feel sick about him.

From the way Han and Leia where behaving in this book towards Zekk and Jag, I think that Jag has much higher rating in their eyes.

 

SPOILERS (possibly)







Ok I want Allston back too for starters. I'm trying to be calm about the whole thing and thnk about it logically (which is me not being normal) but i have come to a conclusion. They couldn't have Allston write this series b/c although he is the most awesome Jag writer ever!!, they needed the drama to pull J/J back together and Denning (whom i dislike STORNGLY at the moment ) is king of that and he is the only one who can do this b/c he already has a bad rep. (in my mind anyways) for killing anakin in SbS. As for the fact that Jag is not on Dramatis Personae for Unseen Queen He'll prob have a pretty big roll in some things in that book or either that or he'll have a big big confrontaion with Jaina at the end therefore not really needing him on DP. Ok I have to leave so I'll finish this thought later! I still dislike Denning strongly ( I can't say i hate him b/c if he DOES put Jaina and Jag back together I would feel bad for saying something bad bout him which i did this entire post)

 

Yeah, I know she was trying to appease the commander, but I think she could have left the 'almost son-in-law' out of it and said it some other way, like 'old friend' or something.

 

Maybe but as you have read later even if she said that Jag was their long lost son that Hapan commander would do something stupid To bad that we didn't get any hint of how some characters felt. I bet Leia wasn't trying to hurt Jag. Thru whole book the talk between H/L and Jag was really friendly and Leia knew that Jag didn't want this conflict and wanted to end it as fast as they wanted it. ( or maybe it's my wishful thinking )

 

No, you're right, and I wish we could have felt what Jag (and even Jaina) were thinking, since a lot of the stuff (like their conversation at the end of the book) was from Han's POV.

 

Maybe Denning having Leia calling Jag her almost son-in-law was a small clue as to why Jag is in Chiss space. Maybe he did come back after TUF and Jaina might have accepted some kind of proposal although something (which I'm sure was on her part)caused her to back out, driving him home for a small spell.

Let's not forget that we don't really know what happened in the five years between books.

All we know is that Jaina's not on the Council, nor is she flying. (I don't remember her being in a squadron in that book)

Until September I'm holding on to my own personal belief that Jaina found out that what she wanted after the war was either really not for her after all, or not possible, sending her into some sort of mental limbo, causing her to push Jag away yet again.

I feel that both Jaina and Jacen are whacked in this series so far. Jaina needs to be put over Jag's knee and Han needs to take his blaster and smack Jacen across the back of the head.

Boy, I feel better getting that off my chest.

So until September then, when hopefully Denning will fix them (oh yeah, and Tenel Ka and Kyp too, I'm just saying)

 

Mmmm, good poitn. Maybe they were like getting ready to get married and Jaina had some mental thing happen. I can't see I'm too keen on the jumping five years thing. I wanted to know how everything adapted, so to speak.

Yes, Jaina does need put over Jag's knee.

I did want to hit Jacen, though I have wanted to hit him several times.

 

That'll cure the bug hugger in her!

 

*Joins the Allston cheering section*

A-L-L-S-T-O-N! We love ALLSTON! I definitely think he was the best at writing Jag and Jag and Jaina's relationship. He had their characters so pegged and he was able to show how Jag would have changed after spending so much time around Jaina (and the rest of the "rebels"). He also conveyed Jaina's dependence on Jag to make her happy during these terrible times, while keeping her character independent. Anyone of the profic writers who set out to write Jag and Jaina should take lessons from him first.

 

I think there are hints that Jaina is capable of being more independent of the hive than the others, such as when she "chooses to use love" and walks away from the hive until they aren't noticing her any more, then sends Jag a message. I've also wondered about the line when Jag receives that message - something about Jaina "choosing that particular day" to send that particular message. Some kind of shared memory for the two of them there.

In terms of Han's acceptance of Jag, I'm also reminded of a small scene in TUF that has 'stuck with me':

"Wedge!" Leia said in delighted surprise...She hugged him in greeting, while Han pumped Wedge's extended hand.
The two men had known each other for almost thirty years, since the Battle of Yavin...Han had always liked Wedge, and what with Jaina's growing closeness to Wedge's nephew Jagged Fel, there was an outside chance that the Solo and Antilles families would end up allies of an even deeper sort.
"Good to see you again, Wedge," Han said.

Hmmmm.

*continues to hope*

oldj

 

SPOILERS!








Great point, ojn! In the Denning interview, he said he might not have given enough weight to the scene where Jaina "uses love" to overcome the hive mind and prevent the war. He noted that the scene really was meant to showcase Jaina's strength. It just goes to show that even a great profic writer can have a scene misunderstood or not understood enough.

 

So many good points here!

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oldj: I've also wondered about the line when Jag receives that message - something about Jaina "choosing that particular day" to send that particular message. Some kind of shared memory for the two of them there.

I must have read that line a hundred times trying to read between the lines there. There were a couple of other items that just drove me crazy like that.

For example: One time, Jaina referred to their few rendezvous after the war as "desperate." What exactly did she mean by that? Jag was desperately trying to win her over? Jaina was desperately trying to feel what she used to for him? They were both desperately trying to get together but could only manage a few times? * shrugs * It just sounded a bit odd to me.

Another one: (And maybe I?m being a bit paranoid here) I can?t help wondering why Denning chose to let us know that Jag and his family will be held responsible if Lowbacca comes back. I?m afraid that might be foreshadowing some sort of choice that Jag may be presented with later on that could possibly lead to his being ostracized from the Chiss. (Or maybe I?m just reading way too much into that.)

 

Sometimes, it's exactly those niggly little details that turn out to mean something later on . . . I was wondering about that point too, actually.

Eeeenteresting.

~Abby~

 

And on a cuter (and still Jag-related) note . . . I couldn't resist

My Jaggie






(his name is Jag)

~Abby~

 

Sorry that I will go offtopic but could you tell me why are some words written in italics font?

The dialogue's and reminders I know why but for ex. on page 361 when Jag talks with Han and Leia and there is normal font but in Jags words there are words mine and convinced that were italics. What does this suppose to do? Make it sound stronger, lower?

And back to topic

Scoundrel: One time, Jaina referred to their few rendezvous after the war as "desperate." What exactly did she mean by that? Jag was desperately trying to win her over? Jaina was desperately trying to feel what she used to for him? They were both desperately trying to get together but could only manage a few times? * shrugs * It just sounded a bit odd to me.

I think that maybe Troy wanted to give us the idea how it all went wrong after the war ended. He said that the Myrkr survivors started to get lost after the war. Jaina got lost too. He also added that after the TUF Jaina and Jag tried to make their relationship go on but the way it was going left them in the point that maybe they've lost hope of their relationship to have a happy end. ( If remember correctly Troy said that the relationship the way he thought () it was shown in TUF would not work if it went the way it was shown ) But in interview Troy might have made a small mistake In the begining he said he can't say anything but later when the guys made him talk a little he probably said one thing to much
And that is that if it will have to go on they will have to make tough decissions Of course he might have intented this to do it this way

I can’t help wondering why Denning chose to let us know that Jag and his family will be held responsible if Lowbacca comes back. I’m afraid that might be foreshadowing some sort of choice that Jag may be presented with later on that could possibly lead to his being ostracized from the Chiss.

This might be a hint but it also might be a trick by Troy. But I hope that when it will come to some choices it won't only be Jag making them. I don't want this to look like if it all depended on Jag and he would have to leave everything and Jaina wouldn't have to do nothing. Otherwise from the growing character we would return to "DelRey's made Jaina a boyfriend" talk.

But I think that Jag will have to leave Chiss space in the end. Otherwise he won't be in the Legacy Era books and that would suck BIG TIME!!!

 

Just in case my ramblings include spoilers . . .

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Abby: Sometimes, it's exactly those niggly little details that turn out to mean something later on . . . I was wondering about that point too, actually.

Oh good, it's not just me. (And Jag is so cute! Clawcat . . . I'm still giggling over that.)


Chimpo: The dialogue's and reminders I know why but for ex. on page 361 when Jag talks with Han and Leia and there is normal font but in Jags words there are words mine and convinced that were italics. What does this suppose to do? Make it sound stronger, lower?

Pretty much. It shows that the words were spoken with added emphasis.

I think that maybe Troy wanted to give us the idea how it all went wrong after the war ended. He said that the Myrkr survivors started to get lost after the war. Jaina got lost too. He also added that after the TUF Jaina and Jag tried to make their relationship go on but the way it was going left them in the point that maybe they've lost hope of their relationship to have a happy end.

So, in other words, she thought that they were desperately trying to make it work, but in her mind, they couldn't.

( If remember correctly Troy said that the relationship the way he thought ( ) it was shown in TUF would not work if it went the way it was shown )

No kidding. Don't remind me.

But in interview Troy might have made a small mistake In the begining he said he can't say anything but later when the guys made him talk a little he probably said one thing to much
And that is that if it will have to go on they will have to make tough decissions Of course he might have intented this to do it this way

Oh, I definitely agree with him. Now, lets just hope that he revealed a bit more than he meant to by saying that!

This might be a hint but it also might be a trick by Troy. But I hope that when it will come to some choices it won't only be Jag making them. I don't want this to look like if it all depended on Jag and he would have to leave everything and Jaina wouldn't have to do nothing. Otherwise from the growing character we would return to "DelRey's made Jaina a boyfriend" talk.

Yeah, I really don't want to see a step backward like that.

But I think that Jag will have to leave Chiss space in the end.

I agree. What scares me a little is the scenarios that my imagination comes up with to make that happen all are really awful for Jag.

Otherwise he won't be in the Legacy Era books and that would suck BIG TIME!!!

Amen!!

 

Scoundrel: Pretty much. It shows that the words were spoken with added emphasis.

Oh ok, thanks ( I wonder why we don't have this in polish books )

So, in other words, she thought that they were desperately trying to make it work, but in her mind, they couldn't.

I think that this was their problem. To bad that they reached the point where their relationship is dead as it is now and they will have to start with it all over again. ( Hmm wasn't Han and Leia relationship the same? )

Don't you think that their problem might not be their feelings but their ambitions? They both want to go higher in the ranks and this might be the main blockade for their relationship.

No kidding. Don't remind me.

I will

j/k

I agree. What scares me a little is the scenarios that my imagination comes up with to make that happen all are really awful for Jag.

Well I aslo have few ideas that aren't too happy for Jag so I think that something is really going to happen to Jag that will cause some very tough decissions and we might see some drama here.

 

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Chimpo: I think that this was their problem. To bad that they reached the point where their relationship is dead as it is now and they will have to start with it all over again. ( Hmm wasn't Han and Leia relationship the same? )

Sounds pretty similar to me.

Don't you think that their problem might not be their feelings but their ambitions? They both want to go higher in the ranks and this might be the main blockade for their relationship.

I?m not sure if ambitions is quite the word I would use, but I do agree that what they want to do with their lives right now is probably the biggest factor in keeping them apart. Granted, I?m not sure Jaina knows yet what she wants to do, but I doubt that confining herself to the Unknown Regions would ever be what she had in mind. I think Jag?s main motivation is his duty to his people. During the NJO, he could rationalize staying with Jaina because he felt that he was serving the Chiss by helping to hurt the Vong. When he was Liaison to the Alliance, at least it was possible that he could have been around enough to make their realtionship work. (I agree with Lola64, though, that there could have been a lot of different things that happened during that time.) But now that he?s back in their military . . . No matter how much he loves Jaina, I just can?t picture him simply walking away from his obligations to his people. I?m not saying that they?re not going to get together . . . I just think that something drastic is going to happen that is going to really affect Jag in some way.

 

Scoundrel: You are probably right with Jag's obligations to his people.

But I hope that Denning won't come up with something like Jag will make some very hard decissions that will cost him greatly just to later on make Jaina tell him that it's over
( no,no!!! Erase this from my mind!!! )

 

Hello, all! Many thanks to Chimpo for directing me to the discussion!














Looks like I'm not the only one who was creeped out by the bugs and the whole Zekk in Jaina's mind. Did the thought occur to anyone else that the reason the two of them seemed to pair together so much might have been some what of Raynar's doing? He was the one controlling the hive and his last memories of the Jedi would have paired J/Z... he had "happy" memories of that time, so it would work for his purposes to push that agenda. Raynar automatically played on the old battle meld, so why not the old crush from his academy days? It didn't work as well on Jaina because she had moved on...Zekk fell right in, since he still wanted those feelings from Jaina anyway.

 

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Ooooh Amazing Point Auntie! I never thought of that before. Hmmmmmm...I'll definitely keep that in mind when I reread TJK.

 

Great point! I never thought about that. I'm going to have to remember that.

 

I have maybe a weird question but "Is Jaina still a virgin?"

There were talk about that she was not but when author was asked he said nothing happend so could she still be one?

Hmm I'm thinking about asking Troy Denning with this question...

 

I thought she still was because she said "We didn't do anythling Zekk... It was just a little cuddling between friends." Unless there's another time I don't know about I think she still is a virgin.