Characters The Conference Room (A Jaina and Jag Discussion Thread) FOTJ: OMEN now out - what's next for J/J?

Yes. Anyone have the link?

As much as they've dragged this out, DR has invested waaaay too much time on the J/J dynamic to torpedo it.

That said, Denning's flagship couple is really H/L so he may focus on them instead. The last J/J scene in invincible mirrors the H/L scene after the death star blows up in ROTJ, so I think there's hope. I hope.

 

Yeah, you guys have to remember that spoilers have to be highlighted for thirty days after the US release.

 

Indignation! More Star Wars book news.

Why isn't Jaina in the description summary? This is seriously disconcerting. What is the point of all this fantastic speculating if the authors are just going to pull my hopes out from under me? Allston doesn't even like Luke and Ben! He's doing this just to spite us for saying his typical character is Wedge Antilles. If I can't depend on Allston to write about cool pilots, then who can I depend on, really? I was so excited to think that FOTJ would be Jaina's series. But alas, noooooo. It's going to be about Luke trying to figure out why Jacen's an idiot. I have many theories. They don't need a book to explain it.

What am I going to do without Jag? He has to be in this! And Golden will be introducing new characters? WHAT ABOUT JAG AND JAINA? My hopes have been dashed utterly and irreplacably. Though, a bright side: Denning will be writing about the Hapans. At least I can count on Denning. Of course, that means I can count on Denning to end with tragedy.

However, I must say, I went off the wall, screaming, literally, when I discovered Zekk's book, Blood Oath, by Elaine Cunningham has been moved up a whole year; that's right! We'll be learning about what happens with Zekk in 2009!

Now, I don't want to be hypocritical. I'm sure I will love FOTJ. But it worries me that this is the SECOND time in which neither Jag nor Jaina are mentioned in the description. Was Jacen mention in the description for LOTF? I'm not entirely certain. All I remember is him being on the cover, and something alluding to Darth Vader and Luke. So it may just be that LucasBooks wants to give us as limited knowledge of the plot as possible. The series could quite possibly be focused on J/J. Or not. I'm biting my nails. It has to center on Jag and Jaina soon, if he's supposed to become Emporer. And she's 33 (he's 35) by FOTJ. They can't ignore this forever. And they can't write a 9 book series about Luke and Ben finding out that Jacen is just an idiot.

Any ideas? Are you worries as I am? Alieve my fears!

 

sue said alot of things happen...but your right, i will be seriously upset if there is NO J/J!!!! Also, i'm kida upset about Egima being renamed Omen...i mean Omen seems so overused and overrated for the title of a book...bleh...maybe it's just me.

*crosses fingers* please, Please, PLEASE let FoTJ have J/J!!!!

 

I'm getting really sick of Luke and Ben. But I'll still hope for J/J in the first; she didn't say that it was going to be L&B exclusive.

Also, this:

June 2011 - Paperback: Untitled by Michael Reaves and Maya Kaathryn Bohnhoff, featuring a promising holostar - a rags to riches story set against the backdrop of the early days of the Rebellion.

Anyone think it could be Jag's mom?

 

oooohhhhhh...that would be interesting!!!! it COULD be anyways...

i agree Luke and Ben is getting old, (lol, Luke IS actually supposed to be getting old...haha, get it?!maybe not )

 

Unfortunately, we won't know for sure for several years

 

How many years after LotF does FotJ take place?

 

FOTJ is set two years after LOTF, but Blood Oath, Zekk's novel, follows LOTF immediately.

I am already annoyed with Ben. If they start writing about how much better he is than Jacen, I'm going to go off. Jacen is an idiot. He messed up. But no one is as perfect as they're making Ben out to be. I'll admit he's a really interesting character. But he shouldn't be in the foreground right now. Jaina, Jag, Zekk, Tenel Ka, and some others have such interesting and intricate back stories; they shouldn't be ignored. Their characters are minute away from blossoming. It's a good idea to set up Ben's story, but it's not time for him to shine yet. Certain other things need to be hammered out. That, and Ben needs to attain some humility. When he was with Jacen, he was a jerk to the Jedi. Now that he's got Luke's trust, he's still pulling the high-and-mighty act. Don't get me wrong. I like Ben. I'm just still a little peeved at him for "talking down" to Jag and Zekk, even Jaina. I mean, have some respect.

What else has Michael Reeves written? He sounds familiar. That would be cool, about Jag's mom. I've always been interested in Soontir's and Syal's story, but I didn't have the patience to read the X wing series, and I think it's only really mentioned in there, besides. I know they're in the comics, too, but I don't keep up with the comics.

I had a thought - if Ben and Luke set out to learn what happens to Jacen, they might happen across the Sith organization Alema discovered. That would set a lot of things in motion, like the Imperial Knights, and Darth Krayat or whatever his name is. Wait. What if that's what the discription summaray means for MF - about something threatening "the Force itself"? What if this massive Sith organization resurfaces? Causing Jaina and various others (I'm putting my money on the Corellians) to split from the order?

 

I know all about the Fels-I'd just like to see the Soontir/Syal romance in narrative form. I am so excited for a "ruggedly handsome" Zekk. Finally he's the hero! And not the sidekick.

 

I'm personally sick of all the Ben bashing especially since he has depth and saved Tahiri when no one wanted too. Personally I think Ben will act fine now that he isn't Caedus's little pet.

 

But like Janet said, he could stand some humility. I can't say it better than she did. everything he's been through, Jaina's been through worse.

Ben joins the armed forces young, but so does Jaina (and she's involved with dangerous YJK stuff earlier)
Ben fights a war. Jaina fights a longer war against a race bent on the total destruction of everyone else.
Ben gets tortured by Tahiri. Jaina getys tortured by the Vong.
Ben loses his mother. Jaina loses her brother and then has to kill her other brother.

Ben gets respect from Luke. Jaina gets no respect or understand for what she's been through. Granted, she hasn't always acted very maturely, but Ben's still fourteen and he's being treated like he's a) an adult and b) the most amazing thing sinced sliced bread.

I think that he desreved screen time in FOTJ, but I don't think he should outshine Jaina again.

 

Jaina is really tremendously accomplished and she gets very little credit for it. Ben's a good kid and has a lot of potential, but he's inexperienced and his training is patchy and incomplete. He is 16 or 17 years younger than Jaina who has been an active Jedi since before he was born. I wanted to beat him when he went into that monologue about jaina being to immature for flight school. She was fricking Rogue leader when she got thrown out for doing the right thing. The next books need to be about Ben gaining the experience to lead effectively because he does not have it now. I like the idea of luke and ben off on a journey. Ben needs personal tutoring to catch up on the stuff he missed and Luke needs to get back to the basics of being a jedi (not because he's lost it, but I think he'll be happier and more fulfilled.) Ben went to war when he was 13 because his parents were written like morons. The Solo kids went to war as teenagers because they were in a fight for survival. Ben did because his parents were written as too indulgent to send him to his room.

A lot of it goes back to fanboyism. Leia is tremendously accomplished as well and she plays second fiddle to luke. And don't get me started on Jacen being uber-warrior. The joiner thing was a mess and poorly interpreted but it was supposed to be about Jaina doing the right thing and having to overcome her attachments. Jaina has been hard to write because she isn't a traditional female archeotype.

I think it can (should) be written that Jaina's struggle with emotional control has held her back. She's got the control now, so she should be unstoppable. Then there's "you shall not know peace" when the Jedi Code says "there is no emotion, there is peace." Talk about screwed either way.

I started Legacy the other day. First frame Princess Marasiah? Princess Leia with a lightsaber.

 

LOL! This makes me laugh. But so true. Sliced bread is fantastic! And Jaina should get more recognition. Like I said, I love Ben; I think he's an awesome character with a lot of potential. But Zekk had a lot of potential. I'm just saying if they keep doing what they're doing with Ben, then he's not going to be so awesome any more. Tops to him for resisting Jacen. But he wanted to kill Jacen out of vengeance, while Jaina did it out of love - and because she had to. Because she was the only person who COULD do it. Ben gets promoted to Knight because of what Jacen put him through, but Jaina and Zekk have been stuck as knights since DW. It would be wrong to promote Jaina for killing her brother - is it just me, or does anyone else feel that these Jedi who are stuck as knights have more sense than the masters on the council?

Zekk - He went to the Dark side and came back, just the same as Ben. I hate that they're making such a big deal about Ben's loss of innocence when nearly the exact same thing happened to Zekk. Plus, Zekk went to Myrkr...and came back. There is so much undeveloped depth behind his character, so much that haunts him. Personally, I think Zekk should have become Ben's new master, because their experiences were so simular. Despite always being made fun of, I think Zekk has a good head on his shoulders and would be a good rolemodel for Ben.

Jag - How do you top being exiled from everything you knew - your home, your job, and your family? Your honor. Jag lost everything, even Jaina, to a point. Despite this, he's an awesome pilot and fighter, with reflexes close to a Jedi. He played a major part in the Yuuzahn Vong war, the Dark Nest war, and the war against Caedus. Luke can't really discriminate against him, since he's not a Jedi...but then why does Ben OUTRANK Jag? I'd like to know.

As for Ben offering Tahiri redemption...that's just a Skywalker thing. I honestly thought is was cliche. Not nearly as effective as it would have been if a non-Skywalker or Solo offered her redemption.

But I'm NOT bashing Ben. I'm bashing the dynamic going on in this family right now. Luke's doing exactly what he DIDN'T want to do in the first place. He needs to find a happy medium. I had mixed feeling when Luke gave Jaina that pep talk the first time she went after Caedus. I felt like he didn't trust her enough. But when he realized that he needed to treat her like his neice, he showed compassion. That's all I want to see: a little compassion. Mara was Jaina's aunt and master - Ben isn't the only person who misses her. I just don't like Luke and Ben acting all high and mighty when the Solos are the ones who are REALLY suffering. There used to be such a connection between these two families, until Jacen turned to the Dark side. Frankly, I think that's a little sad.

 

I love the sliced bread saying

This. It's not that Ben is horrible, it's that he's acting too high-and-mighty and Jaina is getting shoved to the wayside by Luke.

I always thought (at least since the beginning of the NJO) that she was the most undervalued of the Solo kids just because of visibility. Anakin and Jacen stayed with the Jedi where Luke could see them and approve (or disapprove) of their actions, which formed his opinion of them as "adults." Jaina went off and joined the military, where Luke couldn't see what she did. In fact, the Jedi stayed out of a lot of the earlier conflicts, so he doesn't really know what she went through. Then after Anakin's death and Jaina's dark side stint, he was busy being a dad and fighting a war. But she was still with the military. Jacen came back and amazed everyone, went off, and came back as the prodigal son. Jaina just, again, stayed with the military (I believe, though maybe she did some missions?). Anyway, the point is that Luke spent very little time seeing her grow (compared to what he saw of Jacen and anakin, anyway). So he doesn't really know what she's capable of.

But she killed Jacen. She managed to beat someone who had spent more time with a lightsaber and was probably a better swordsman. And she killed Tsavong Lah. Everyone forget that. She's not a weak idiot. She was traumatized as a young woman and then she was mentally sucked into a bug group (though, I might add, she resisted enough to send a warning to Jag). She's not incompitant, she's emotionally scarred.

Plus, I've always hated that Luke and her parents just up and left her on Hapes. Yes, they were all sad, and yes, she was being difficult and not really wanting their opinions, but Jag and Kyp both stuck around. Her family pretty much abandoned her. I know they had important jobs as visible people for morale and such, but a couple people (even if one is a Jedi Master and head of the Order) aren't going to make a difference. Maybe I need to re-read DJ, but I can't understand why they didn't try to help, even if she pushed them away and didn't want them.

 

What really concerns me is that Luke is so easily pushing people to take the hard work from him. Jaina and Jag are good examples.

Luke could have easily ended Jacen's Dark Side road to power but he was afraid that he will go to the Dark Side himself. So he finally finds a substitute in form of Jaina and he uses her as his weapon against Caedus. I had a feeling while reading Invincible that Luke didn't care that much about what will happen with Jaina.

And then at the end he put Jag in a position that Jag couldn't say no. Thanking Jag for his help, Luke put him a in a room with a whip and a chair and full of angry and starved lions.

Jag and Jaina lives didn't get any better with the end of another war. Actually I wouldn't be suprised if we will learn that Jaina and Jag aren't together because they have to deal with a lot of troubles. Jaina will be healing from her fight with Jacen and Jag will have to face the Moffs and that's enough to take all your free time. I think that Troy did some foreshadowing for next series in Invincible when Jaina asked if Jag will come to see her and Han replied that he will come when he will find time. I have to say that this is just another NJO-like ending when we believe that they will get together and then we get hit by cruel reality

 

QFT

There's a very real possibility that Jag and Jaina might not get together in the next series. Or they might. There was also a lot of hinting at the end of LOTF as to Jaina's attitude toward's Jag. In Revelation it seemed like she was having a lightbulb moment, and not just about Jacen. It seemed to me that she was finally willing to be with Jag, even though the galaxy is still falling apart. The trouble now is that there is so much junk between them. Jag has to agree to take her back, but before he does that, she has to broach the subject with him. But Jaina's sorrow is something Jag can handle; he's been there before. As for the moffs, that will be tricky. But who better to help him than a Jedi? The trick is that she can't let him go this time. She has to be adamant. He has to be adamant. At least now she knows what she wants, and we just have to wait and see what Jag will do. Just as likely it is that they may not be together, it's likely that they will be together, with just a passing summary of what happened between them in the past two years.

Denning foreshadowing? No, I don't think that's likely at all. Not his style.

I wonder if Jaina's role as the Sword of the Jedi is over yet? Probably not.

By the way, I had this big, long post written, but it got lost in internet space somewhere. I totally had some good stuff about sexism in Star Wars. Now you will never know. I agree with what Nat is saying about Jaina being invisible to Luke. But all she really has to do is pull out her medals from the Yuuzahn Vong war and shove them in his face. As for her parents abondoning her - I don't think Leia abandoned her. She sent Jag. That was the best she could do, and she agknowledged the fact. Sending Jag was the best thing, really, because it allowed their relationship to fester, him to get under her radar. Then he was there for her later, when she really needed him. That's major insight on Leia's part. DJ is filled with such raw emotion; I think that's why people love it so much.

Luke send Jag to Jaina, too, in Exile. But that's the only thing he's really done for Jaina in LOTF. That's okay, though. It makes her a better character, because of what she had to face. She went into the series as a character that most readers were fed up with, and came out shining.

 

I think that Fury, Revelation and Invincible showed very well that Jag really cares for Jaina. And she knows it. I don't think there is a lot of junk between them. I think they are more afraid of what happend in the past and they don't want to make the same mistakes.

 

Yes, but he doesn't know that she knows it. How do you tell someone, "You were right. I get it now. I'm sorry for acting like a moron." Wow. I guess, like that! Still, she has to work up the nerve to tell him. Where is the opportune moment? Jag is busy with the Imperials; Jaina is grieving. Jag won't pour his heart out to her, because he'll want her to really want him, not just because she's grieving. He'll want to be careful, because she's been through so much, and the last thing she needs is him pestering her with questions about love. But now Jaina's ready to love him, unconditionally. They are never on the same page.

Plot bunny: Leia stays in office during the Yuuzahn Vong war. How does that change things?

 

I believe they are going to get together this series and it's going to set them up to create the Imperial Knights with Jaina being the first. This series will probably show how Luke and maybe some other force users teach Ben how to have these high Jedi morals that will be passed down to Kol's days. This series should be told from Jaina and Ben's perspective so we can see how these two characters will form the next generation Orders.

 

As a couple, they aren't big talkers. In Fury there's the whole bit about how Jaina doesn't learn from words, only success or failure.

As for proving she's sincere to jag, it's really OOC for her to go pouring her heart out. All she really has to do is to show up wherever he is and stay.

DR has screwed around with J/J for a long time but I think it's been a done deal since they outlined DN. They're just trying to get maximum drama out of it. I think the obvious connection to Legacy is there, but aside from that, DR has invested more in the Jag character than any other non-Jedi since the Rogues. That's not accidental.

I don't think we're going to get a big romantic lead up.

 

I agree. Their break-up was mentioned in passing. When they get back together, it won't be a big ta-da. But Allston and Denning are pretty good at making little moments seem big. Like the conference room. Or the scene at the end of Invincible that mirrors Han/Leia. In Star Wars, the littlest moments are the most significant. The only Star Wars book I have in my dorm room is the third Force Heretic, where Jag tells Jaina he loves her for the first time. She isn't even CONSCIOUS when he tells her, and she doesn't exactly say it in return...but you still KNOW. In Revelation, Jag is only mentioned, but I still got these big stomach drops whenever his name came up. Probably because the idea of Jaina writing to him from Mandalor - seemed kind of Victorian to me. Also in Revelation, you know that Jag still loves her because of the things he says to Ben. He doesn't say, "OMG I love her, Ben," but he's overprotective, and he's worried about her. Carr is right: they aren't big talkers. But what the DO resounds so much more significantly. I love it when they team up. I just want to know that we're going have that team for a while.

I think it would be cool told from Jaina and Ben's POV. I hope the two of them interact more. Jaina could be a good influence on Ben.

 

I agree with the above: they're not talkers and Jaina should teach Ben for a bit.

I don't know that they'll be together in FOTJ 1, but I'm sure they will by #9. DR can't cut it too close or their kids won't be born on time.