Characters The Conference Room (A Jaina and Jag Discussion Thread) FOTJ: OMEN now out - what's next for J/J?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Jaina_Jag_Index, Jul 26, 2005.

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  1. Jaina_Jade_Fel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 2
    oh. i'm reading it right now. it was 20% off at the Barnes and Noble over here, so my parents were willing. It's interesting, but...*MF SPOILER/SPECULATION** i honestly don't think Jaina's going to be in it, there's been like two mentions of her and i'm already on chapter 12.they haven't mentioned jag at all :(
  2. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Sadly...she doesn't appear in MF. But she will play a role in FotJ.

    Does anyone else think that Jag is going to stand up to Daala and support the Jedi, which will lead to a Daala/Jag conflict?
  3. Jaina_Jade_Fel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 2
    that's what i'm hoping for. it would be a really good story-line to have going during the series.
  4. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    I think/hope so, especially since Luke is Jaina's uncle.

    I think holding Luke legally responsible for Jacen's fall is stupid. Jacen wasn't his legal responsibility.
  5. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    I know that charge is SO stupid that it makes one want to slam their head against a desk. Everything is not looking good for Luke. I think maybe Jaina and Jag can handle Daala.

    Also I have an interesting theory on how Jaina and Jag might create the Imperial Knights. Maybe them and the Jedi have a meeting regarding Daala and the possibility of the Mandos taking over as the Galactic protectors of peace. All of the Jedi including Luke and Ben agree that if a Jedi Knight gets involved in helping somebody, the people will get scared of them because they are Jedi. Jaina and Jag come up with an idea that maybe if a different type of force user who is neither Jedi or Sith but is more like a soldier working for a powerful government comes to the rescue that maybe the people wouldn't be too scared and judgemental. So after a long talk, they all agree and a few Jedi go with Jag and Jaina to become that different type of force user(Imperial Knight).

    Pretty much, I'm starting to think that the Jedi Order split up could be a joint decision by the Jedi and Jag's Empire just so the Mandos don't fully take over.
  6. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    I disagree because that's waaaaay too specific. Some elements may occur, but certainly not all. And the Jedi Order has never had a calm, rational conversation and come to an agreement about anything quickly.
  7. Earthknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Of course it wouldn't be immediate and would take a while. But I think eventually they would commence with such a plan. I just have this feeling that the creation of the Imperial Knights has nothing to do with some of the Jedi leaving just because they hate the Order.
  8. NYCitygurl NSWFF Manager

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    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    Possibly, there's raelly no way of telling. But I don't think all of the specifics you described will happen.
  9. Darkwriter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2006
    star 4
    MF spoilers and Outcast speculation:

    I think we're already seeing the split of the Jedi Order. Each time Jaina was mentioned outloud in MF, nobody seemed to really want to say too much about her, especially in reference to her mental health. Han told Lando, she had "one foot" in the fold, but he didn't want to say anything else. Even Luke hesitated when Leia asked how Jaina was doing. I think this means that Jaina might seriously be wavering with the Jedi. That, and she's still feeling kind of shaky. Not that its this big, controverial thing; just that she's still recovering and reevaluating her role as a Jedi. With Luke in Daala's captivity, then in exile, she's probably going to be sorely tested.

    The Jedi will have a choice: disband, or obey the discreetion of the GA. I don't remember what their situation with the GA is in the Legacy series, just that the Imperial Knights owe their allegience to the Empire. Maybe Jaina just gets fed up and Jag offers her a place to stay. Maybe Daala offends Jag, and he's forced to take action. The thing is, I can see a lot of people aligning themselves with Jag, like Kyp, Wedge, Han and Leia, and others. If Daala and the GA start attacking Jedi, maybe Jag is forced to sever ties with the GA. Conceivably, Luke could even start the Imperial Knights from his exile.

    And let's not forget, Tenel Ka is not likely to be very happy, either.

    For some reason, I love the way these books end. The reference to Jag and Jaina made by Allana - I was grinning like an idiot. It doesn't really give us any insight, but it does. If something wasn't planned for them, Luceno wouldn't have put that bit in. Obviously, Jag is familiar, since Allana refers to him as "Jag" and not "Jagged" or "Fel" or "the grand moff." If a proposal (of marriage) is indeed coming soon, as Allana suggests, that could put a lot of stress between Jag and Daala. If the GA starts targeting is fiancee...then it's like the GA is targeting the imperial grand moff himself.

    Not to mention, Luke Skywalker was the person who put Jag in charge in the first place! Jag has always aligned himself with the Jedi (excluding the Killik War). I don't see why he would stop at this point.
  10. carr3107 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2008
    star 3
    Actually, Jag has always allied himself with Jaina. Alema was about Jag's own objective. When it was done, he was going to leave and Jaina asked him to stay. His question about whether they were friends really was him asking if she was asking him to stay for her, or for her cause. Being a Jedi has come with a great deal of pain for Jaina and I think the demands of the Order contributed to their breakup. Jag is a very controlled, very focused action-oriented guy. Worrying about Jaina when she went off to Fett and watching her go up against Caedeus has to have killed him. Interpreting what little is in MF, I think Jaina has been in a serious relationship with Jag and has distanced herself from the Jedi Order. It sounds like she's come back just a tiny little bit but Luke now has to force the issue with the recall and Leia is worried. The last years have had to be horrendously difficult for Jaina. Jag has to stand by and powerless watch her suffer over and over about what she had to do.

    He's a lot like Han in that area--Han's loyalty is to Leia, not a government or the Jedi. Jag's loyalty is really to what's right, with Jaina mixed in there. Jag is a military mind. He is very aware of the need for discipline, order and team cohesiveness. He also understands creative interpretation of orders, but there's still a need for an underlying control. Those are the things that the Jedi Order is the worst at maintaining. The Jedi are a force for tremendous good, but when they have problems, the consequences are huge. They have very high highs and very low lows. Jag's had a front row seat every time the Order doesn't address a problem effectively. If Jag was running the Jedi Order, I'm sure it would be run much more tightly. Is that good? Bad? It's unclear, but it would be different.
  11. Darkwriter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2006
    star 4
    I think you're correct, on many accounts.

    First, a lot can happen in two years. By Allana's reference, it sounds like Jag and Jaina have mended their relationship somewhat---at least to the point that he's around enough for a seven-year-old to take notice. Obviously, the authors aren't going to give us a lot of satisfying details; that will be left to the fanfic authors once Outcast comes out. It occured to me that MF did very little to reveal what's been going on in the galaxy since the fall of Caedus; all we know is that Han and Leia are still awesome and kicking.

    Looking back I can see how Jag's loyalty has always been to Jaina. But he's worked with the Jedi enough to have developed some kind of compassion for them, or at least to understand that what happened to Jacen doesn't happen to all Jedi. And he has to have SOME kind of favor for them if he's going to allow someone to start the Imperial Knights with the Fel Dynasty. I don't necessarily believe Jag is motivated by what right - rather, what is right is dictated by duty. There are some things that are unchangable, like his tactics. But the Killik war was a severely controversial issue, and I can't say that I think he was on the moral side of that exchange. What makes Jag powerful is that he's NOT a Jedi, and he doesn't mingle in Jedi affairs---but his support for the Jedi is effective. He can't doubt the effects that he sees from the Jedi, one way or another.

    We can say, as Daala and Fett do, that things would be better off without the Jedi. But wouldn't the situation actually be worse? Even if Jacen and Jaina weren't trained as Jedi, they would still have Force powers and the burden of a politically active family...and THAT'S the problem. Jacen's problem was ambition, not that he was a Jedi. The Jedi need an Order, so that they can be taught to control themselves, to understand themselves. The problem is power, not the Force. Luke is so focused with treating eveyone equally, but the truth is that some people need more attention.

    But my point was that Jag is sort of obligated to Luke now, because Luke appointed him as grand moff. In a sense, his political claim supercedes Daala's. So if you were grand moff, and the leader of the GA had arrested the man who made you grand moff, what would you do (ignoring the fact that you're probably dating that man's neice)?
  12. carr3107 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2008
    star 3
    You're absolutely correct--I don't think things would be better off without them. I also agree that the problem is power, rather than the Force or the use of it. Where the Jedi run into problems, over and over again, is when people with that power cross the line. The old order had plenty of problems, but they didn't seem to have as many issues with rogue dark side use.

    Tread very carefully, which is what I think we're going to see.
  13. Chimpo_the_Sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2003
    star 5
    Actually I think that this part is way to realistic to be honest. It's like watching news on TV. It's not different from our real life situations.
  14. Darkwriter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2006
    star 4
    The fans are always saying, "Oh, they can't do anything to Luke; of course the won't do anything to Luke; he's Luke Skywalker; Luke Skywalker can't DIE." I guess the authors are just testing that theory. I find it refreshing, actually. Up until now, they've threatened virtually every character EXCEPT for Luke. It's like what Aaron Allston said in his interview about Robin Hood.

    Oh, and I just found out: Jaina is supposed to be in Blood Oath, as is Tenel Ka. If Jaina and Jag are indeed persuing a serious relationship in MF, if Elaine Cunningham if something of a SF romance writer, and considering the work she did for Jag and Jaina in DN, how much do you want to bet Jag will be in Blood Oath as well? Or that we'll see Jag and Jaina patch up their relationship somewhat?

    (Also, apparently Blood Oath starts off during the last battle in Invincible!)

    Still, I hope Jaina and Jag don't make too much of an appearance. I was really happy that Zekk had his own stand-alone, that he was finally separating himself from Jaina. I want to see his character grow. So as much as I want to see some J/J time, I hope they don't intrude too much.
  15. TKeira_Lea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2002
    star 5
    So there has been mention of Jaina and Jag in the Blood Oath cover. And now there is this interview with Denning that gives us J/Jers some confirmation of what he meant by the subtext in Invincible.

    Hooray for J/J!
  16. Solo_and_Fel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2004
    star 3
    (Hi, all. Haven't been in here in awhile.)

    TKL, what do you mean by mention of J and J on the Blood Oath cover?
  17. TKeira_Lea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2002
    star 5
    First Look: Blood Oath


    After this cover there is a whole new flock of Zekk fans popping up. Jag needs an equally hunky cover IMHO. Although I'm not sure we're going to get it with the stylized look of the first FOTJ cover. Heck Jaina needs a good cover, not the about-to-skewer-my-brother shot of Invincible.
  18. Jag4Me Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2008
    star 6
    Which part, TL? I downloaded the podcast but they were only discussing the Clone Wars series. Did I miss the correct one?
  19. TKeira_Lea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2002
    star 5
    Got to go to about 35 minutes to get to the good stuff.
  20. Jag4Me Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2008
    star 6
    So, the entire thing wasn't Clone Wars? I only skipped a small part and I bet that's the part I missed. lol Okay! Thanks, I'll go back and listen for that part.
  21. Darth_Lex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 4
    More good news from the profic realm:

    [face_dancing] [face_dancing]
  22. carr3107 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2008
    star 3
    You have to make sure you download the "I love Star Wars" one. I couldn't figure out why they were ripping on Vector. Wrong podcast.
  23. Darkwriter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2006
    star 4
    I liiiike. I love listening to Troy Denning in interview form. He's a very insightful writer, and he's very friendly with interviewers, tries to be as forthcoming as possible. I'm glad he cleared up that J/J issue. I'm a little disappointed that there was no discussion about the Imperial Remnant though. Anyway, I love that Denning allows us to have these interviews.
  24. Darkwriter Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2006
    star 4
    What are you people, dead? First no Outcast discussion, and now nobody seems to want to comment on Omen (I'm sure I'm not the only one who went and read it the first day it came out)? What's with the comm silence? I thought everyone would be jumping for joy since it finally happened. You know what I mean.
  25. TKeira_Lea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2002
    star 5
    Yes, we know what you mean ;)

    And we should absolutely be celebrating. [face_dancing]

    As for the comm silence:

    The spoiler policy at TFN might be one reason. The news about the exciting turns have been out for a while at other sites so a lot of us have chatted it up for a while. (I actually read the book over a month ago.) The hosts of the J/J Index have been remiss in posting an update, and we will in celebration. Lex gave me the update file the beta and it sat in my inbox. We'll update with J/J fics this weekend.

    Any new J/J fanfics out there - get them into the Index and we'll include you :)
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