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Lit The Continuity Snarl Celebration thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    To be fair, I don't think Grievous has been shown to be adept at strategy, well, ever. He should be, in my opinion, but writers seem to want to give him his position because he's scary. He sort of gets there in Stover's ROTS, but even in that most of his charisma comes from his ability to frighten his subordinates (or crush their faces with his fist).

    See, everyone says that, but I actually do not get an overwhelming "coward" impression in ROTS, and definitely not in the novel, which Lucas read and approved. Hell, Grievous has probably never been more described as a killing machine than in the ROTS novel. He ran from Obi-Wan and Anakin, true, but I see that less an act of cowardice and more an act of survival; he should know that he won't survive a fight with both of them together. He loses to Obi-Wan, but I prefer to see that as a triumph for Obi, rather than a failure for Grievous (which, again, was made much more obvious when taking the Tartakovski cartoon into account); a declaration that Obi-Wan is seriously good, fully deserving of Council status and the master of the chosen one on his own merit, rather than simply inheriting him from Qui-Gon.

    So I don't personally buy that the TCW portrayal is the more 'faithful' portrayal in regards to the films.
     
  2. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    I don't consider his fight with Obi-Wan specially badass on his part. Now, Obi-Wan dropping in the middle of the droids? Hell yes.

    instantdeath: I'm not calling him a coward. I'm calling him this:

    [​IMG]

    The opposite of badass.
     
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  3. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Well Grevious manages to wipe out Talzin's Nightsisters with Droids and all of his military losses are against Anakin, so, again, I don't think we can hold them against him. We also get a sense of his competence when he fought Kit Fisto. Fisto is a Councilman but not equal to Grevious.

    I like to think the whole arc with his Ion-Cannon ship is more him in a really bad spot against two military geniuses.
     
  4. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    Well, I will say that "badass" can be something of a misleading term; I don't necessarily want Grievous to be what most would think of as "badass". I just want it to be believable that the Confederacy would spend a staggering fortune in order to build a competent General, one who is fully capable of killing 95% of Jedi (as he is more or less designed for exactly that purpose). And overall, I feel that TCW has really diminished Obi-Wan's eventual victory over him. If I can pinpoint the biggest thing I don't like about TCW (and contrary to what some may think, considering how much I complain about it, there are some things I really like about the show) is that it has not done very much for Obi-Wan's character. He's come out of it pretty battered. And not in a "shrug it off" way. More a "go whimper in the corner" kind of way.
     
  5. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Yeah, I guess the "Grievous was a dunce that wanted to be a Jedi" explanation works better with non-badass Grievous. :p
     
  6. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I disagree about Obi Wan. He seems to be doing everything in the Clone Wars.
     
  7. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    He has a part in everything, but he seems like he should have been killed twenty times over by now :p

    While this one isn't directly from TCW, one of the most jarring moments recently is from one of the latest TCW digest, the Sith Hunters. Obi-Wan is rushing at Maul... and Maul almost contemptuously picks him up with a Force choke until some random Jedi interrupts. Boo.
     
  8. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    He also beat Savage AND Maul. They DO seem to be going with the fact Obi wan has an opposite reaction to the Dark Side as Anakin (and most Jedi for that matter). Obi Wan's power DROPS whenever he's upset.
     
  9. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Well, he held his own against Mechamaul and Yellowmaul. That was kind of cool.

    EDIT: ninja'd :(
     
  10. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    Haven't watched any of the new season yet, though he didn't fare so well in the season four finale :p

    That is nice news, though. I don't demand that certain characters always succeed (would make the story quite boring), but Obi-Wan seems to be a favorite whipping boy.

    Now, if he decapitates Cad Bane, all will be well in the world.
     
  11. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    Actually, I really love that; it was only hinted at in the S4 finale, but I liked the implication. Maybe I'm totally warping it (lets face it, that's half the fun of the EU), but I think it could signal Obi-Wan's growth as a Jedi. When he was young, after seeing Qui-Gon murdered by Maul, his anger fueled him, led him to actually be able to push Maul back. Now, Obi-Wan has matured, his path is set, and deviating from it causes him to lose concentration, something he's going to need desperately if he wants any chance of Maul (I do also enjoy that they seem to want to make Maul a credible villain; was afraid he was going to be a bit of a joke).
     
  12. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I also thought it was a nice subversion of ROTJ.

    Obi-Wan channels his rage in TPM...and finds that a Sith Lord is better at it, causally smacking him back with the Force.
     
  13. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    And, while it's not canon, it's very nicely capped off in Old Wounds. Obi-Wan has his lightsaber to Maul's head, and has this fantastically drawn image of pure rage and conflict on his face; props to the artist there, because you really get the impression that Obi-Wan wants nothing more in the world than to ram his saber through Maul's skull, but if he does, he'll be damning himself. Then Owen does it for him, and all you can see on Obi-Wan's face is tired relief.

    I don't know if I want Old Wounds canonized or not, but I love it regardless.
     
  14. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Han just stated that he don't believe in the Force not that he never heard about the jedi. To him the jedi were probably something akin to the way many people think of the Shaolin monks or Knights Templar - a religous order who are banne mig good at fighting.
     
  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Yeah. In a galaxy of quintillions, 9000 Jedi Masters and Knights are really not all that. Then include two decades of suppression of everything about them and voila, you have the OT.
     
  16. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

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    May 10, 2004
    not to be nitpicking here but...
    well that's 10000 Jedi as of TPM not counting padawans and younglings... 9000 as of AOTC only (and I still wonder how they lost 1000 in 10 years without getting suspicious).. then add to that the 10000 Jedi of Djinn Altis rival order..
     
  17. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    9,000 during the Clone Wars - I responded to that point for that era, sorry I wasn't clearer.

    'Thousands' of students, not all Jedi who made it to Knights, for Altis, I recall.
     
  18. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Djinn Altis... Djinn Altis...
    Don't think I have heard about them [face_thinking], it actually sounds like some kind of drink

    – Bartender! Can I get a Djinn Altis and two Blue Beskar on the rock!
     
  19. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    It really warms to heart that all of them will have been hunted down and apparently dead before the second year of the Emperors reign.
     
  20. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

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    May 10, 2004
    hey... be nice to my beloved hippie-commune Jedi! If only Palpatine had succeeded in purging Hutt space of the Hutts like he once attempted. Damn you Solo for stopping that!
     
  21. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Actually he only told one of his Moffs to prevent the Rebels from buying weapons from the Hutts. Moff Shild just went a little overzealous there and got himself and a several thousand Imperials killed by it. ;) Plus Nal Hutta was never in any danger anyway, as it has one of those fancy planetary shield networks.
     
  22. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

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    May 10, 2004
    Don't out-lore me!!! :p

    The Empire had no need to destroy Nal Hutta, it owned it already anyway ever since the major Hutt clan leaders became Black Sun members and had a Hutt Vigo tell them what to do with their Grand Council. Besides, Xizor answered directly to Palpatine. He basically owned the Hutts on a leash ;)
     
  23. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Durga is the Daala of Hutts, no one takes him serious :p
     
  24. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

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    May 10, 2004
    I thought Ziro was the Daala of the Hutts :p
     
  25. Skywalker8921

    Skywalker8921 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Now that TCW is confirmed to be winding down with only two bonus arcs coming out of the canned Season 6, is a Luceno Darth Tyranus novel possible?
     
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