The current membership of the AC

What Sil said.

Basicly it doesn't matter what off board groups people belong to, the prime importance is what they represent here, and on the AC if seleceted.

Out of the current AC'ers the VAST majority of ALL their posts is in community. This makes me worry about their ability to represent the other forums. What about the film forum go-ers? Or the FanForcers?

Ofcourse, since the AC has little actual power anyway some would say that this is a pointless debate.
Others would go further and say that the AC is an elaberate ploy to keep the drama makers wound up in their own faux-pollitik.
Of course, I would never say either.

 

I do think the AC should be a bit more representative of the entire JC and strive to avoid the perception that the AC is just made up of people from this exclusive DB club. There are a lot of long time members of the JC that care about it and the well being of the community yet have nothing to do with any spinoff boards. I would be one of them.

Finding people like that outside this DB group shouldn't be so hard and it seems to me, if only for reasons of appearance, that it is something that should be considered next time round.

I do have to say that I am MUCH more concerned with these comments stating no obligation to represent anyone other than themselves. That seems to me to completely defeat the purpose and effectiveness of the AC. It disturbs me even more that these comments came from PERMANENT members. Not cool.

 

I'm not sure if I should say who is and isn't members, as that is a personal decision to make, but I can say that the membership of the Base is incredibly eclectic and there is no form of "toadying" or backrubbing going on in there. The members have a massively wide range, (from Mods to "Trolls"), and the fact that some members Tessa invited have become mods and AC'ers, is more to do with the type of people she chose, rather then the fact that they are now members of an offshoot board. This is why I was rather confused at why she decided to make this point, when I thought that her above all would realise the outcome.

Of the 80 odd posters there, I "know" about 20. I imagine that is the same for the new members of the AC that also post there, so it's not exactly one big "club of friends".

For instance, I have "discussed" (ranted at) toochilled about the AC before at that site. We are still on differing sides of the argument on that point. We do not take some uniform Soviet style view because we happen to occasionally post at the same site! After all, do you agree with someone who posts that "Sidious!=Palpatine" in the AOTC forum? ?

I do not feel that being a poster at another board should be any form of disqualification. Judge the Advisory Council members on what they do for you and who they are. Not where they post.

UKS

 

My own worry is not that people are posting together on some non-JC board, but that there are so many from Community with so little representation of the other boards, particularly Literature and Fan Fiction. In AC5, I'd like to see a lot more focus on the forums that deal with Star Wars...

 

Actually if you look through the posts of the AC members, you find a distinct lack of expressed opinion on the 'politics' of the JC.
If I may point out during the last debacle, only one of the latest term members was an active participant.

Things like that leave me wondering over the AC's willingness to fight for or against something.

No offense intended but most of the AC seems rather bland in their opinions and, as a stop or check on the modsquad, I'd prefer people willing to put up their dukes,

 

What exactly would you have us fight against?

 

Out of the current AC'ers the VAST majority of ALL their posts is in community. This makes me worry about their ability to represent the other forums. What about the film forum go-ers? Or the FanForcers?

As was stated before, just because you don't see someone post in the movie forums does not mean they have no idea what's going on in there. I've been trying to post more in the AotC and OT forums lately simply to better reflect how often I lurk in those boards, but honestly there aren't that many topics that are interesting right now -- there are only so many times I can argue that Jango's head was still in his helmet.

As far as FanForce is concerned, we were told specifically in AC3 that we have no say in FF decisions or issues, so we specifically stayed away from FF-only members.


No matter what people may say about EmpressPalpatine being the "mother hen" of the AC, she is nothing of the sort. She, nor any other member of any outside board, controls our discussions any more than any individual member at the JC.

Perhaps we didn't choose the most diverse group of members possible. The fact of the matter is that we voted on those people that we felt made the most intelligent arguments in Comms and elsewhere.

I'll try to expound more when I've cooled down a bit.

 

Just letting everyone know that I see this thread, and I will look through it and reply more in-depth after I finish up with classes today, as this affects me in multiple ways.

 

Considering that, from personal experience, the mod squad always manages to come up with a stupid idea or two which it colelctively fails to notice the problems with?

I can't of course speak to the specifics of what lunacy has taken their fancy recently, however I do hope you argue agaisnt it if they bring it before you before making it public.

For my own part I've argued publically and privately for a standard amound mods for training and a difining of the rules they're supposed to enforce, if I thought one of you could or would argue it more effectively I'd ask you to bring it up.

That is of course the point right? I or someone else comes up with an idea, how are we suppsoed to assume that you're automatically debating it's pros and cons?
Or more likely is it just shot down as unrealistic when proposed half heartedly by someone who doesn't understand it?

And then of course even assuming you come to an agreement in favour, how do you convince the modsquad of it?

And in all this time I sit here and watch infrequent updates with vague references to debate and in all liklihood it being blocked and never knowing why because it'll just disappear from one update to the next.

The 'proper channels' on this board are labyrinthian and dark and the grues are always nibbling at your heels.

 

I'm glad that Sil and Jon_Snow echoed my sentiments. Glad to know I'm not alone <sniff>...

You'd be hard pressed to find a caring, contributing member of the JC who isn't also a member of a spin-off board, and the caring, contributing ones are the ones the AC needs. But...

<raises hand>.

I post in two places and two places alone. Here and AICN (well, the Galaxies Beta boards as well, but that's different ). I think that there are plenty more people that post only here for SW-related material than both here and an offshoot site. Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong.

 

The AC works. Oh, no, too many from Dantooine. Last AC had two British posters. That's not fair either, right?





To me, it has become painfully obvious that the AC no longer fuctions as it was intended to, and now, it seems that those in charge of the AC have seen fit to use the Base as
their own proving grounds to pick AC members in an effort to consolidate their own "power" and to try to exclude those whose opinions do not fall in line with


I picked people who proved their worth. Others did the same. Wooo, they coincedently go to the same site too.

And the AC no longer functions? I heard AC3 was seen as a success, and AC4 has had little time. Why not give it a chance?

 

I think spin-off boards are great places to make friends, but they really have to much to do with JC politics these days. They're just representations of supposed groups of friends, and even spin-off boards (including ones that I'm a member of) have different factions.

The simple fact is, most of the people on the AC are friends. Is that a problem? No, because as is shown in the AC thread, at least one member of the AC frequents each forum. The fact that most of them post at the same spin-off board is irrelevant, it is a long way from signifying that they all share the same views.

 

We almost managed to rescind the Declaration of Independence, and we would have made it, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!

*SHAKES FIST*

farraday, as you remember from your days in the AC, just because the Update is relatively inane, does not mean that the discussion itself was. You may feel that you were let down by your compatriots on your term,(and in hindsight, I feel badly about the situation), but you cannot deny that they stood up for what they believed in as well. They may not have been as aggressive as you, but that does not make them "weak" or "yes-men".

UKS

 

I had only spoken to 2 of my AC. How did I make it then?



And EP, DB is a selected place, where people are invited. If you invited every Mod, would you then complain about that?


Jeez, Im glad I decided I didnt want in that place now, so Im not criticism fodder







EP, if you have sucha problem with this, remove them from DB.



And to those moaning about spread, look at the last ACs spread, and how wide it was. Oh no, one has a majority communications, Give it three months, you might have all from Spoiler forums. What matters is they give a good insight. I dont post in Games much, but I watch over it. Prove others didnt/dont do similar.

 

Out of the current AC'ers the VAST majority of ALL their posts is in community. This makes me worry about their ability to represent the other forums.

Agreed. Most of the non-JCC candidates were eliminated early, which I could do absolutely nothing about.

However, there appears to be a heavy correlation between YJCCers and Communications. If only the rest of the JC would take a more active role in Comms, that would probably increase the chances of a more mixed group.


What about the film forum go-ers? Or the FanForcers?

I represented Non-Spoilers, although I can't exactly say how many of them were aware of it.

Also, it was decided that since the FF is a separate entity and has their own system of representation, the AC should concentrate solely on JC affairs.

I do think the AC should be a bit more representative of the entire JC and strive to avoid the perception that the AC is just made up of people from this exclusive DB club. There are a lot of long time members of the JC that care about it and the well being of the community yet have nothing to do with any spinoff boards. I would be one of them.

Again, I would kill to have a diversified AC. I agree that there are a lot of good veteran members that continually get passed over for any chance of working with the JC administration, and the best advice I could give to those types is to keep at what you do best. Your persistence may very well pay off one day, whether it be in the AC or Mod Squad.

Last AC had two British posters. That's not fair either, right?

Oh, posh. I highly doubt 25% of the JC members are British.

Of course, while we're on that note, we should probably accommodate the ever-increasing supply of Aussie and Canadian members.

 

However, there appears to be a heavy correlation between YJCCers and Communications. If only the rest of the JC would take a more active role in Comms, that would probably increase the chances of a more mixed group.

This gets to the crux of the matter though -- if the AC is supposed to represent the users and "everyone else has Comms" then why do AC members have to be active posters in Comms to represent their Forum?

 

There's an obvious common denominator that people seem to be overlooking here:

Members of the DB were invited because they seemed to be intelligent, well-spoken people who were interested in the JC.

Members of the AC were invited because they seemed to be intelligent, well-spoken people who were interested in the JC.

People don't become members of the AC because they're DB'ers. People might get invited to the DB because they're AC'ers, though.

But the common requirement for both pools is that the candidated be intelligent, well-spoken, and interested in the JC.

For the record, however, this 'strong DB association' was noticed long ago by the Administration, and we've been keeping an eye on it. It's not something we were oblivious of.

But this seems to be only one of the issues presented here. It seems that people are also now calling into question the necessity/validity of the AC...

People seem to be split into two camps of thought - that the AC is a paper tiger, and only inhibits true communication between the Administration and the members....

OR that the AC is a good sounding board where the 'static' of Communications can be filtered out and reasonable, civil, progressive discussions can actually take place without all of the posturing and melodrama for the sake of 'publicity' (to gain celebrity, notoriety or infamy through your outspoken-ness) in Comms.

Even the administration is split on this issue, as it always has been - is the AC useless or useful? Is it just a paper tiger or is it a place where you can get genuine discussion?

I personally think it's both. It's a great place for civil, mature, and productive discussion... but it's also a shame that it has to be 'private'. Ideally, I'd like to see Communications be that place, not some locked up forum where only a select few participate.

But then how to eliminate the posturing? The drama? The 'publicity stunts'?

The AC was just one solution. Is it working? To a degree, I think. I've seen much less drama in Comms recently. But is that necessarily a direct result of the AC, or simply a better overall environment?

It's worth discussing.

Vertical

 

The word I used UKS was bland.

People for whom "it's just an internet message board" rings true on some deep level.

Yes it is just an internet message board, but it is also one you have not only invested a lot of time in, but have volunteered to help guide in your own way. Attempting to quell debate by saying it's just a internet message board is a non starter for anyone taking the time to get involved.

And yes although an update may be short it doens't mean the debate was. Unfortunately the mod squad continualy fails to make the same regular updates as the AC leaving us with short updates of whatever the modsquad feels it neccesary to take up with the AC.

Most ACer's, I notice, still haven't answered if they feel the modsquad is fully utilizing them as a resource.

Although I wonder how they're supposed to know since the mod squad often seems phobic about revealing anything.


Members of the DB were invited because they seemed to be intelligent, well-spoken people who were interested in the JC.

Well then, how do you explain the fact they invited you?

 

In terms of the AC representing the forums, I would like to see more "old schoolers" on the AC such as Ariana Lang and JediMaster22.

Speaking of "old school" does anyone know what the dealio is on FreeBeer.com and the thread he made last night here.

FreeBeer.com's watched users list is interesting as well.

citizen-tom, DarthBoba, and xie are Slackers now?

 

This gets to the crux of the matter though -- if the AC is supposed to represent the users and "everyone else has Comms" then why do AC members have to be active posters in Comms to represent their Forum?

Good question. Nobody said that ACers have to be *active* in Comms, it's just a tendency. Comms. is simply the best forum for a member to "show off" their knowledge of the boards, so it only makes sense that those that frequent Comms. the most get noticed the most.

One must keep in mind that these representations are informal, not something that should be taken for granted. Yes, as I stated earlier, many Comms. regulars are also JCC regulars. It's kind of like the non-voters saying they got screwed over in the local election - they shouldn't complain since they didn't vote.

Perhaps, as an idea, each major JC forum (save Comms ) could subit a monthly report to the Mod Squad. It can include, and is not limited to, members' opinions, forum activities/plans, popular discussion topics, etc.

 

Freebeer.com's account was compromised, and the situation has been handled.

As for the MS updates, we've recently discussed setting up a calendar with sign-ups and deadlines so that we can get these out regularly and on-time. This should help.

As for why DB invited me? Probably a few reasons:

1) To let a 'critic' of the place in to show that they weren't some evil board.

2) Because a few people probably wanted to flame me.

3) Because some of the people there actually wanted to see me post there, and to socialize with me.

Outside of that, I dunno. I don't meet any of the other requirements.

Vertical

 

Since I just found this thread this morning, I'll respond in more detail later.

However, I would like to state that any implication that the AC members, many of whom happen to post at the Base, would use their AC positions as a "stepping stone" to a mod position or unduly influence the JC is highly offensive to me. I know that as for myself and many others on the AC, I view my position on the AC as a privilege and an honor. I take my role their seriously and to hear an insinuation of this sort is surprising and disappointing.

That's all for now.

 

Perhaps, as an idea, each major JC forum (save Comms ) could subit a monthly report to the Mod Squad. It can include, and is not limited to, members' opinions, forum activities/plans, popular discussion topics, etc.

Wouldn't AC representation from those "major JC forums" eliminate that need?

EDIT: However, I would like to state that any implication that the AC members, many of whom happen to post at the Base, would use their AC positions as a "stepping stone" to a mod position or unduly influence the JC is highly offensive to me. I know that as for myself and many others on the AC, I view my position on the AC as a privilege and an honor. I take my role their seriously and to hear an insinuation of this sort is surprising and disappointing.

And I don't think that's been the case here (unless I missed something?) I think the issues in this thread started out as:

1) How did so many members of DB get to be AC members and was it a "tit-for-tat" situation or was it benign?
2) Does it matter if the preponderance of AC members are DB members?

This led into:

3) Are there concerns of the general makeup of the AC and is there proper Forum representation?

and then:

4) Is the AC necessary if they don't view themselves as beholden to anyone but themselves and not the users at large?

That an accurate summation? Bueller?

 

About the problems with the current AC:

1) DB Base: I'm not from DB nor do I know what they are or that they even existed. It may not mean much, but at least there are some people who aren't from the DB "exclusive" club. Like Vertical said though, members may both be members of the AC and DB because of their intelligence and common sense. It may have little or nothing to do with being a member of one to be a member of the other. They only thing I've noticed about my fellow AC members is that they have common sense and a desire to help. I haven't seen any exclusivity or promotion of anything.

2) The AC no longer functions: That's a serious concern. I would really like to hear more from people who feel the AC doesn't work and why it doesn't work. AC4 hasn't done that much but we've barely gotten a chance to get going. We've had some good discussions, which are private so no non-ACers know about them. But we have had discussions, which is the main purpose of the AC. Perhaps a more public forum of sorts would make members feel that the ACers are more active. Or more thorough updates.

3) Uneven representation of the boards: I can see why this is a problem. When it comes time for AC5, I'll do my best to make sure that the boards are evenly represented, if at all possible. However, it may be that those who are on boards that are under-represented aren't as interested in the administration and thus the AC. Maybe we could set up something were we have a member for every section. We could at least try and discuss it.

4) Is the good of the JC your sole priority? For me, absolutely, 100%. I didn't know any of the AC personally before coming to the AC. I have no desire for more power or having the AC being a stepping-stone to more power on the JC or to membership of other boards.

5) The AC is unnecessary: That is something to be looked at. If the AC doesn't serve a useful purpose, why does it exist?
The AC has no real power. It can't act on anything. It can only discuss, advise, and bring up issues.
Like deltron said: The AC is meant to provide personal insight and a membership's point of view into various subjects, and to give the Administration a better idea as to what the membership thinks of a certain proposed policy issue.
As a JC member, I feel proud that I can try make a difference in a recognized body. As a single member, it is harder to get the mods to pay attention to you than it would be for the AC to communicate. The AC is a forum where members can discuss and try to make the JC a better place.
Whether this actually helps or not, I don't know. But my other question is, does it hurt?

6) Of course I would ask the AC members how well they thought the mods were using them.: Some are, some aren't. Some mods do come to the AC and ask for the opinion of the ACers. The ACers aren't useless in giving advice or opinions to mods. However, you should ask the mods how helpful it is.

Darth_Dagsy: Frinedship should never be allowed to influence decision-making.

I agree. However, you know your friends well and if they are capable. You often don't know enough about strangers to make that decision.

UKS: Also, if you have an issue, take it to a AC member, they will raise it for you in the Advisory Council.

Absolutely! We will discuss any issues that members bring to us and feel important. We also dicuss issues members bring up in comms and issues we feel are important.

Jon_Snow: In AC5, I'd like to see a lot more focus on the forums that deal with Star Wars...

I'll do my best to make sure that the next AC will represent more forums. Are there any specific forums you feel are underrepresented?

farraday: Things like that leave me wondering over the AC's willingness to fight for or against something.

Who would you have us fight? Bring us something to fight for that would make the JC a better place and we'll do it.

no offense intended but most of the AC seems rather bland

 

I suppose I will restate what I said earlier, since no one either understood, or paid attention.

This is not about individuals that make up the AC. It's about what the AC's true function is, and how it utilizes the "responsibility" it's granted.

I don't think hurt feelings were intended, and I think some of you may be taking this too much to heart. We aren't calling into question the people themselves here, ok?