The current membership of the AC

Discussion in 'Communications' started by EmpressPalpatine, Jan 26, 2003.

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  1. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the current makeup of the AC, and if so, why?

    That seems to be about the people to me.







    And as an aside, about EP's rocking the boat comment. If that was true, I wouldnt have lasted the full term. Indeed, I feel one of my biggest failings was my own opinion.



    Also, about representation of each forum. You forget one thing. You know why Lit, for example, didnt have much in the way of "big" poster representation? Because there's better. AB and Night are better than anyone in Lit barring POSSIBLY 2 or 3 posters. And this is from someone who spends nearly all his time in Lit. Now, I dont know about you, but Id rather we had AB and Night over two poorer choices, but get there because they're from Lit.
  2. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Wouldn't AC representation from those "major JC forums" eliminate that need?

    What, do you think the AC is some sort of House of Representatives? I assure you, as a former AC member, that at least 80% of all the topics that were brought up have absolutely nothing to do with any one forum.

    The idea was just to enhance the relationship between the Administration and the JC forums. The AC won't be able to cover every single detail from whatever forum they come from.
  3. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    AB and Night are better than anyone in Lit barring POSSIBLY 2 or 3 posters.

    Right. I agree that AB and Night are excellent users and a credit to the AC BUT I hardly see them in Lit.

    And if the point of the AC is to represent users in various Forums, shouldn't it be more necessary to represent those Forums with slightly less-respected users who are 600% more active in that Forum than a very well-resepcted user who hardly posts there?

    AmazingB is, IMO, a very dedicated member of the JC community... who happens have 100 or less posts in EU Lit in TOTAL (and 7 this year).

    Night4554 is, like Amazing, another very dedicated JC member in my opinion... with 150 or less posts in total (and 6 this year).

    So we're back to the question -- is it more desirable to have the best possible users period for the AC -- or the best possible users FOR A FORUM on the AC?

    I'd tend to vote the latter (although I'm all for people like you, RF, who embody BOTH best possible user AND best possible user for a Forum ;)).

    EDIT: What, do you think the AC is some sort of House of Representatives? I assure you, as a former AC member, that at least 80% of all the topics that were brought up have absolutely nothing to do with any one forum.

    The idea was just to enhance the relationship between the Administration and the JC forums. The AC won't be able to cover every single detail from whatever forum they come from.


    And I wasn't suggesting that. However, if the point of the AC is representation for the masses, then it makes sense to have "major JC Forum" representation. Clearly not all issues will be related to one Forum or another but that doesn't mean that people in other Forums mightn't have good suggestions on how to solve a problem.
  4. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    Seriously, what's the point? If it's a group of members that really care about the JC, want to do what they can to make this place better, want to help the "regular members", act as go-betweens, etc... then that's GREAT. But why on Earth do they need a private forum to do this? It seems to me that it would be much more productive if these discussions were taking place in public where every member who has an interest or who cares to contribute could let their voice be heard. Why do we need a "select group" of people who care about this place? Don't we all? Why can't we all be AC members?

    Ideally that's what Comms would be used for. But it's not, and until it is, the AC is as good an option as we have.

    Of course I would ask the AC members how well they thought the mods were using them.

    We are used as a sounding board. I don't know if everything that comes up in the MS is brought to us, but things like off-topic threads, whether people should be held to a higher standard if they've been banned in the past, amongst some other topics have been brought to us.

    I'll post more, especially in reply to Tessa's initial post when I get back from class.

    Amazing.
  5. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    If this has nothing to do with the individuals who are on the AC, then they (and what private boards they visit) shouldn't have been brought up.

    I'm only home for a little while for lunch, so I'll add more when I finish up with all my classes.

    However, I agree with what Vertical has been saying.
  6. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    1) DB Base:
    Petty and IMO a non-issue. One given we can expect of any user here is that the Jedi Council may not be the sole message board they "belong" to.

    2) The AC no longer functions:
    It does. I'm someone who believed in its purpose as a regular user. I'm someone who believed in its purpose as an AC member. I'm one of the mods who still believes in its purpose as a mod. I also happen to be one who takes part with some frequency. The right-sized group can do wonders for working through an issue. The wrong-sized group can waste a lot of time. Issues that come up in Comms and AC prove this on a continuous basis.

    3) Uneven representation of the boards:
    Group size and forum representation have competing goals. IMO, the group size is a bit more important than forum representation so long as the major forums of this site get represented with some sort of regularity. I'm been pleased to see the AC adapt to any gaping holes it may have in representation as well. Not something I see as being a problem, now or in the past.

    4) Is the good of the JC your sole priority?
    As long as there are passionate, reasonable people on the AC then it will have much value. The good of the JC should be each member's priority for being on the AC. If it's not, then stand aside and let someone who cares more than you do. Again, I've been pleased to note there's been AC members who have done this - stepped aside when they see that they can't help the forums as an AC member.

    5) The AC is unnecessary
    If one doesn't think it's necessary, then just stay away from it. Do things like you would if it didn't exist. No harm done to you.

    6) "The AC has no real power."
    IMO, if you believe this, then you've fundamentally mistaken the situation. Administration of a message board isn't "powergaming." Real power is more than a ban or edit function.

    7) Of course I would ask the AC members how well they thought the mods were using them.:

    As an member of AC2 ( :cool: ), I thought the mods worked with the AC rather well. We set up moderator reviews which seem to be a good thing and well-received by mods and users alike. A serious "drama issue" at the time was abuse of the new "title" feature. Specifically, a discussion of a particular title given to a JC hacker. I've gotten to see the AC from all perspectives. As a user, I brought forth some issues to AC1 via Dev Sibwarra and I thought they were handled more than satisfactorily. As a member of AC2, I think we helped deal with some serious things that concerned the whole forum. And now, as a mod, I'm happy to see the AC perform like it was intended in a majority of cases.
  7. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    "shouldn't it be more necessary to represent those Forums with slightly less-respected users who are 600% more active in that Forum than a very well-resepcted user who hardly posts there?"

    Would you prefer to be represented by Night or by Bib Fortuna, Twiek?

    Hmm? A large post count should not be any form of measuring device of a posters quality. That was decided a LONG time ago here.

    UKS
  8. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    And I wasn't suggesting that. However, if the point of the AC is representation for the masses, then it makes sense to have "major JC Forum" representation. Clearly not all issues will be related to one Forum or another but that doesn't mean that people in other Forums mightn't have good suggestions on how to solve a problem.

    The AC's ultimate goal is to improve the relationship between the members and the Administration. Has it been working? Debatable.

    The AC has never truly implemented forum representation, it's just an idea that's been toyed with in the past. Would it work? Again, debatable. And as long as a forum's problem remains relatively general, it's fair game for anyone to discuss.
  9. keokiswahine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 5
    Members of the DB were invited because they seemed to be intelligent, well-spoken people who were interested in the JC.

    Members of the AC were invited because they seemed to be intelligent, well-spoken people who were interested in the JC.

    People don't become members of the AC because they're DB'ers. People might get invited to the DB because they're AC'ers, though.

    But the common requirement for both pools is that the candidated be intelligent, well-spoken, and interested in the JC.


    Does that mean those of us who were not invited to membership in the DB (who are now the majority of the AC) are not intelligent, well-spoken, and interested in the JC? I work in criminal defense. [face_plain]
  10. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    All in DB have those qualities. Those qualities are not just in all DB members.
  11. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "Does that mean those of us who were not invited to membership in the DB (who are now the majority of the AC) are not intelligent, well-spoken, and interested in the JC?"

    That's not at all what Vertical is saying. He's saying that members of the DB and AC are often intelligent, well-spoken, and interested in the JC. There also are intelligent, well-spoken individuals who are interested in the JC who are neither DB nor AC members.

    It's sorta like how a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square.
  12. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Hmm? A large post count should not be any form of measuring device of a posters quality. That was decided a LONG time ago here.

    Apparently you missed my point about choosing someone who was only SLIGHTLY less respected than a well-respected user with an infrequent posting habit in a Forum. I certainly was not advocating taking the person with the highest-post count from any particular Forum.

    And, if we're talking about post counts then no, I don't believe someone with near 600 posts this year and only 7 of them in Lit represents the average Lit poster. There has to be SOME measure of post count towards experience, otherwise you wouldn't need 200 to adopt a Newbie in the recently revised "Newbie Adoption Thread 3.0." CLEARLY there are people who accumulate massive post counts without any regard for the JC beyond their own posting -- and clearly those members shouldn't be AC members. But if there is to be Forum representation, I think you have to look at the best representation for a Forum and not the best representation overall. Sure, you might take a SLIGHT hit in quality, but I'd tend to think that 95% with an 85% representation rate would be better than 99% with a 50% representation rate.

    I suppose it's all a matter of "weighting" priorities though...
  13. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    Hmm? A large post count should not be any form of measuring device of a posters quality. That was decided a LONG time ago here.

    The people with the highest post counts are generally not the ones with the most quality. Posting often also doesn't mean you know what's going on. I lurk a lot in some forums and have a decent idea of what's going on without actually posting a lot.
  14. keokiswahine Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2000
    star 5
    The quote are his words. Say what you mean and mean what you say........ We are supposed to read between the lines?? ?[face_plain] ?[face_plain]

    *gets out magnifying glass to search for hidden words between the lines* :D :D :D
  15. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    Keo, I never suggested that every intelligent person who loved the JC was invited to DB, don't misunderstand me.

    Vertical
  16. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    2) Because a few people probably wanted to flame me.

    Vert, I'm still working on my essay flame towards you.

    ;)

    We've been in the AC now for 3 weeks. That's not exactly a lot of time to really get rolling. As far as the Mods using us as a spring board, I answered that last night. It's happened a couple of times. We can't make the MS bring issues to us and we can't force the MS to listen to issue we bring up. It's a two way street.
  17. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    First, I would like to say that I really appreciate the input from everyone on this. Overall, the discussion of the purpose of the AC and how it?s working is one that we do need to have.

    As I said earlier, most of the Acers this term happen to post at the Base. Coincidentally, many of the ACers from the last term also posted at the Base yet we were able to accomplish a lot and were not(and still aren?t) afraid to call each other on the carpet on issues. Just because I (or anyone else) post at an offshoot board doesn?t automatically discount the ability of the AC to do it?s job.

    I do believe that the AC works. Yes, AC4 is having a slower start than AC3, but everything has it?s ebbs and flows. Just because the last month has been slow, it certainly doesn?t mean that the whole AC no longer functions. As for representation, I know that the nominees for the AC came from diverse areas. I purposely voted for individuals I did not know personally (Flaming Sword) yet, I believed would bring a good insight to the AC. More cross representation would be good for future AC teams, but I still believe that those new ACers can provide opinions into all board issues, not just those that affect the areas in which they post.

    On to the original post:

    Jokingly, some friends of mine have begun to refer to me as the Mother Hen of the AC?

    News to me.

    I think it's a bad thing for the JC in general to have the entire AC come from such an exclusive group.

    It?s unusual, but not a bad thing unless problems result from the association and I haven?t seen any specific issues that relate to this. The discussions I?ve seen in the AC have been honest and many of them quite challenging on various topics regardless of any Base association.

    As you can see this was rather a surprise to me, as I was under the impression that the AC was here to represent all of us, not just themselves.

    What I believe was being said in the quotes given from an AIM chat was that all of the ACers are there to give their individual opinions on topics related to the JC as a whole. Of course the opinion is mine, but that doesn?t mean that I don?t think through the repercussions of decisions that might be made and how they will impact the JC. We do represent the JC, but we are ?regular members? who were asked to the AC to give their opinions and insight on issues that affect the JC and the other members as a whole.

    To me, it has become painfully obvious that the AC no longer fuctions as it was intended to, and now, it seems that those in charge of the AC have seen fit to use the Base as their own proving grounds to pick AC members in an effort to consolidate their own "power" and to try to exclude those whose opinions do not fall in line with theirs.

    Not from what I?ve seen.

    One example of this would be the ousting of faraday, because he refused to kowtow to the Mods, was known to be in disageement with the Adminstration several times, and on a variety of issues, and refused to tow the AC party line. In essence, farraday rocked the boat, and challenged the AC leadership on many issues, and in doing so, was deemed unsuitable to the AC.

    That?s not at all the reason faraday was asked to leave the AC and if that?s your or his perception, then its frighteningly skewed. farraday is a highly intelligent person who?s opinion I value. However, his style was hindering open communication in the AC. If we were worried about ?kowtowing? to the mods, I wouldn?t be there. We?re there to hold them accountable.


    If the AC is not meant to be representative of the members, and is, as was told me me, a sounding board for certain members to interact one-on-one with the Admins, giving only their point of view, then in the interests of getting the best cross-section of JC society, one would not want to draw all the members from a small select group of friends, most of whom share the same points of view, am I right? One would want to seek out people from various subcultures here
  18. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Here at the JC we also have a newly formed Advisory Council that incidentally enough, is made up almost exclusives of Base members.

    As of today that should no longer be an issue.

    Jokingly, some friends of mine have begun to refer to me as the Mother Hen of the AC, as I am the de facto leader of Dantooine Base

    As far as I have seen, you are the only one that has called yourself by that name, Tess.


    You may think I liked this for some reasons having to do with "power" or "drama" or whatever nonsense. Neither of those are the case. I think it's a bad thing for the JC in general to have the entire AC come from such an exclusive group.

    Again, as of today that should no longer be an issue.

    As you can see this was rather a surprise to me, as I was under the impression that the AC was here to represent all of us, not just themselves.

    The AC was established as a place for regular members to give their opinions on subjects brought before them by the Administration in a closed forum. The AC is obligated to make no effort to represent any members other than themselves. However, over the months that the AC has existed, AC members have been more than willing to bring up issues that other members had brought to them. We also have made a point to get samplings of ideas from other members.

    To me, it has become painfully obvious that the AC no longer fuctions as it was intended to, and now, it seems that those in charge of the AC have seen fit to use the Base as their own proving grounds to pick AC members in an effort to consolidate their own "power" and to try to exclude those whose opinions do not fall in line with theirs.

    First of all, no one is "in-charge" of the AC. No member has anymore power than any other. Some post more than others and take a more active position in discussions, but that is about the extent of this. No one is pressured by anyone else to change his/her opinion, and most of us have no contact outside of the forum with which to conspire. I'm still fuzzy on this whole "power" thing on an internet messageboard.

    One example of this would be the ousting of Farraday, because he refused to kowtow to the Mods, was known to be in disageement with the Adminstration several times, and on a variety of issues, and refused to tow the AC party line. In essence, farraday rocked the boat, and challenged the AC leadership on many issues, and in doing so, was deemed unsuitable to the AC.

    I don't know who's feeding you your information, but whoever it is should be fired.

    farraday sealed his own fate in the AC, but since it is a private matter that should be kept so that is all I will say.

    As the co-creator and "Supreme Chancellor" of Dantooine Base, this is not what I, nor the other founders, had in mind for our board when we created it

    Actually I thought that Klye was Supreme Chancellor. That's what his title said.

    That being said, I think we all know what the Dantooine Base was originally created for. It has been with much toil and not the least amount of resistance that some of us have tried to drag it kicking and screaming from the Drama! base that was its original purpose.

    Dantooine Base was meant as a social alternative for social misfits, not a stepping stone to a JC career.

    This is the first I've heard of this. I didn't realize that the most proficient posters on the JC were "social misfits". I'm not sure wether I should take that as an insult or not.

    But greater than that, this is not a good development for the JC as a whole. Whether the AC has any actual influence on things that go on behind the scenes or not is debatable. But what isn't debatable is the current makeup of the AC is not good for the JC because it doesn't represent the interests of everyone, just of those who are on the AC roster, and their own personal take on issues.

    And so we see the crux of the issue. You can't control it, therefore it should be disbanded. That's what this is all about, isn't it? Turns o
  19. Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 5
    well, it looks like a little background on teh Base is needed here since a few people have taken to expressing ignorant opinions. so, as a Base admin, allow me to educate you: teh Base was formed in late june of last year following the destruction of the DC, which the members did themselves. when teh Base first got up and running, some of us realized that there was still a little bit of DC element that needed to be changed. myself, EmpressPalpatine, and YodaJeff (who was not a jc mod at the time) lead the charge in the transformation of teh Base to a drama-free SOCIAL board...yet still allowing people to speak freely about whatever they so desired, however, the concept of the DC was completely swept away. and as others have stated in this thread, the DB invitation process is, and always has been, based on a few key factors such as FUN, intelligence, charisma, NON-troublemaking (for anyone, whether it be at the jc or against individual people), etc etc etc. if you think choosing people based on perceived quality of character is "elitist" then so be it.

    and for the record, Vertical's invitation to teh Base was predicated mainly on the same "standards" for inviting anyone else, and partly for the purpose of hopefully comforting the jc mods and keep them from thinking there was any "drama" or "plotting" going on there.

    the fact that many people have wanted to join teh Base because they think that's the best way to become a JC mod or AC member...is disturbing.
  20. xie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 5
    Uh, I don't think being "well-spoken" is a requirement of the DB. If you poked in on a chat at any one time, not only will the title offend the weak at heart, but the content is usually not what is even suitable for these boards. Though I don't know about the DB Boards themselves (not being a member), if they're anything like chats, this is not a requirement.
  21. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Katya...
    "Insinuating that the Base has some agenda to infiltrate and take over the JC is ludicrous."

    You need to get your nefarious agendas straight. Ludicrous was the Slacker Council, not the Base. :p ;)
  22. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    For the record, the quoted comments in the first post were all mine, and I stand by them. I made them in a semi-private chat where both current and former ACers were present. My remarks were never meant to be more than my own personal opinion.

    Other than that, what Kate, and especially Jim said.

    And like Jim, my participation at the DantooineBase will no longer be an issue. It looks like EmpresPalpatine wants to continue to live down to her reputation, and I won't be taking part.

    AYBABTU?

  23. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    AC was here to represent all of us, not just
    [Dantooine Base]
    .

    Let me read the whole thread before I say anything other than what the heck is Dantooine Base? A spinoff board I've never heard of? Let me go read some more...

    ¤Night
  24. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    You need to get your nefarious agendas straight. Ludicrous was the Slacker Council, not the Base.

    See, just goes to show how crappy I am at drama.
  25. Anvia_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 4
    "the fact that many people have wanted to join teh Base because they think that's the best way to become a JC mod or AC member...is disturbing. "

    I agree, those people are not correct to think this, but why should the AC be questioned because some people have got the wrong impression of things? Vert's got it exactly. The qualities he mentioned above are among what the Base looks for in a member -- or, at least, DB's interpretation of those qualities -- and it just so happens that they would also make for a potentially good AC member.

    To those people who are asking for Base admission for the sole reason of getting in the AC or MS... I do not wish to be associated with the Base anymore but believe me, if I still did, I would do my best to make sure you lot never got in. If you want access, then for heaven's sake do it for the the pleasure of talking to the Base members, you'll find that there are several quality people in there. If you refuse to see the Base as anything other than a lift to the AC, then I'm terribly sorry but I have no idea why you are being listened to in the first place. Your intentions are apparently nothing but foolish ----

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