The current membership of the AC

Discussion in 'Communications' started by EmpressPalpatine, Jan 26, 2003.

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  1. wstraka5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 4
    Ok, after reading this thread I felt it necessary to post my opinion, especially since I am not a Base member. And before anyone says that I don't have enough experience in Comms to know what is happening, I want to say that I have been watching Comms for a long time. I decide to post when I have something to post that is worthwhile nowadays.

    So, on to my comments. I know a number of the current AC as friends. I have known several of the current ACers (such as Anvia_Fett) since I first came to the boards, not to mention some of the previous term.

    Personally, I don't see what the big deal about the majority of the AC being Base members is. Every time I have interacted with the current crop regarding concerns about the JC (even before they were ACers), they all seem to want to truly make the JC a better place, be it by acting as an interface between the users and the mods or by acting as a sounding board for new policies. This is what I understand the AC to be.

    It wasn't until recently that I learned that those I knew on the current AC were part of the Base. Was I (or anyone else) supposed to know of this in advance? No. What they do outside the JC is not my concern. Now it happens that I now know that some of the ACers are (and have been for a while) a part of the Base.

    Does that change my opinion of how they have been doing their job? No. I would have to say that they have been doing their jobs.


    Is the fact that someone posts at Episode-X, ATS, the Base or AICN supposed to mean that they are disqualified from being part of the AC? No. As long as they do their job (namely addressing the concerns of all of the users of the JC) then that is all that matters.

    So, does it matter that a number of the current crop of ACers are members of the Base? No, as long as they do their jobs.

    Just because this time there happened to be a majority of ACers from the Base doesn't mean that it will happen all of the time.
  2. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Still no current AC member has either explained why AYBABTU's position is acceptable or repudated him on it.

    Also there seems to be a distinict lack of understanding amoung the AC themselves what their position is.

    FlamingSword : From what I understand, the AC was never meant as a stop and check for the modsquad...

    Katya_JadeThe AC is also in place to hold moderators accountable.

    Considering the confusion amoung the aC why is it odd there's confusion amoung the members what it's there for?
  3. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7


    To address farraday?s points:

    I was rebuffed strongly by the members of AC3,

    I don?t agree at all farraday. You were asked into the AC twice because you were viewed as a valuable contributor to our discussions. I?m sure there were some ACers with whom you didn?t get along with more than others, but just because you were ultimately asked to serve the best interests of the AC by your departure does not mean you were ostracized on a consistent basis.

    That my actions had hurt the regular members views of the AC and as such were interfereing with the AC's job.

    Your actions internally were causing a difficult time with communication and hindering open discussion. You have strong opinions and that is why I wanted you on the AC. However, your abrupt, harsh and condescending tone during discussions was difficult to overcome. I don?t think your actions hurt the ?regular members views of the AC? as much as it was interfering with the job we were given to do.

    Now however they seem to be ignoring that and blindly accepting AYBABTU claims he has no responsibility to anyone.

    Not in any way true. Rhett has not claimed that he doesn?t have responsibility to anyone, just that he is there to give his opinion on issues presented. Isn?t that what you did in the AC, farraday? Present your opinions and views? AC3, just like AC4 is there to give our thoughts and input. We have a responsibility to the JC as a whole, which all of us understand. If one of us causes a rift with the JC membership or contributes to a disruption in our open communication amongst each other or the mods, it?s the other ACers responsibility to hold them accountable for that behavior. If Rhett or anyone else acted inappropriately or his actions caused the AC to lose it?s focus and productivity, I would do the same thing.

    Considering the confusion amoung the aC why is it odd there's confusion amoung the members what it's there for?

    I don?t believe we?re a ?stop and check?, but we are there to ask questions on decisions and actions, as appropriate. I don?t think those types of differences are why there may be confusion among JC members as to the AC?s purpose.


    wstraka5, thanks for your feedback.
  4. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    You don't think you're a stop on the MS yet you do think you can hold mdoerators accountable?

    Could you please explain that more completely for those of us without razors that shave that closw?

    And you apapretly haven't read his quotes Katya.

    They(AC members) have no obligation to represent anyone other than themselves.

    Where I come from obligation and responsibility mean the same thing. Perhaps your razor blade could explain that to me as well?

    Again the difference is I was an ex mod there to give my opinion to the AC to help them work better, Rhett is part of the AC and for him to feel he has no obligation to anyone strikes me as the complete antithesis of what the AC is supposed to do.

    Why is a memebr suppsoed to go to the AC with a problem if the AC has no obligation to them?

    Wasn't part of the reason the AC was there to reduce the Ivory Tower that was percieved to exist?
  5. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "How well do they represent Literature, or AOTC, or CT forum issues?"

    Well, I had one issue in the AOTC forum that I asked them about (I asked during the AC3/AC4 switchover, so both groups gave feedback). They gave their advice, and even though they aren't all AOTC regulars, their advice made sense. I'd have to say that a higher proportion of the problems here often deal with YJCC. Yes, this doesn't mean that the entire AC should be comprised of all people who only post in YJCC. However, from what I've seen, if you take an issue to them, they will do their best to help out. If something forum-specific needs clarifying, the mods from that forum should be able to come in and explain how things work in that forum.

    The AC relies on three groups of people in order to survive. First off, there are the regular members. From what I've seen, both as an ACer and as a moderator, if you send a PM to an ACer on a topic that you would like to see them bring up, they will bring it up. Chances are, if it's brought up, it'll show up in their next weekly update thread. If it doesn't, feel free to PM that ACer again, asking if it was discussed, or PM another ACer or moderator, to see if it was brought up. Heck, you can PM me an issue, and if it doesn't involve anything personal that requires super-secrecy (something that might be better left to the Mod Squad or kept to PMs), I'll bring it up in the AC for you.

    The second group that the AC relies on is the moderating staff. If we're not there to give the AC issues that come up, or if we're not there to discuss the various issues with them, they cannot succeed.

    The final group is the ACers themselves. If they're not motivated, nothing will get done. However, in both this AC term, and the previous one, the members have been highly motivated.

    In other words, don't complain about the AC not fairly representing everyone, unless you have concrete proof. If you haven't sent them anything to work with, you can't complain about them not representing you. At least from what I've seen, ACers rarely get PMs about things to bring up. The ACers are out there and available. They have a thread explaining who the members are, and how everything works. Many moderators are willing to participate in the AC. That makes the regular members the missing link. The AC can only be effective if everyone is willing to participate and work together.

    Oh, and I know for a fact that the ACers aren't all brainwashed clones who don't care about the JC, or who agree with the administration on every issue. They think on their own, and (aside from the Mod Squad), you'd be hard pressed to find a group that cares as much about the JC.
  6. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    From The Advisory Council: Term 4 - who we are, what we do, and how you can help:
      I. What is the purpose of the AC?
      The Advisory Council serves as a bridge between the Administration and the Membership. A selected group of dedicated Jedi Council members gather together to discuss pertinent JC issues alongside the Administration.

      The AC is meant to provide personal insight and a membership's point of view into various subjects, and to give the Administration a better idea as to what the membership thinks of a certain proposed policy issue.

      The AC isn't meant for grievance or technical issues, which are topics better suited for the Administration. However if you do see a problem in how the JC is run or have a question or concern, feel free to privately contact the ACer(s) of your choice and that issue will be brought up for discussion.


      />
    />
  7. Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 5
    If you attack the integrity of the group, you attack the integrity of any and all persons within that group. You of all people should know that. No matter how that post is played, it is in the end an attack on the integrity of the members (or former members as the case may be) of the DB that populate the Advisory Council.

    sorry, but it doesn't work that way. what she said isn't that clear cut. the intent of tessa's words are open to interpretation, in a reasonable way, whereas your words were VERY CLEAR in their intent.

    Until I came around here I had no idea that friendships were thrown away so casually.

    i feel the same way.
  8. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    The AC isn't meant for grievance (issues)..

    However if you do... have a... concern..

    New logic?

    So basically don't ask the AC to do anything if you have a problem with the mod squad because they won't or can't accomplish anything?

    Or is there another way to say it?
  9. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    farraday, I don't understand your continued need to post quotes from different people and try to make a basis for an argument. We all have different viewpoints, but are under the same purpose.

    You don't think you're a stop on the MS yet you do think you can hold mdoerators accountable?

    I don't think we're an automatic stop on the MS for every policy, but I do think we can question decisions if we don't agree with them. This has been demonstrated time and again in the AC.

    Could you please explain that more completely for those of us without razors that shave that closw?

    It's an insult. Veiled, but an insult nonetheless and I really don't appreciate it.

    And you apapretly haven't read his quotes Katya.

    Yes, I have. You apparently haven't read anything I've posted responding on the subject.

    Where I come from obligation and responsibility mean the same thing. Perhaps your razor blade could explain that to me as well?

    Again, I've posted my opinion on Rhett's comments if you'd care to read them. Please refrain from insinuating that my opinions and thoughts on this issue are less important or valid than yours.

    Again the difference is I was an ex mod there to give my opinion to the AC to help them work better, Rhett is part of the AC and for him to feel he has no obligation to anyone strikes me as the complete antithesis of what the AC is supposed to do.

    Once again, his quote was taken out of context and I do not believe that was the intention of the statement.
  10. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    He already said he stood by his position.

    For the record, the quoted comments in the first post were all mine, and I stand by them. I made them in a semi-private chat where both current and former ACers were present. My remarks were never meant to be more than my own personal opinion.

    What mroe do you need Katya, he is not claiming his quotes were taken out of context or anythign else. That's you trying to cover his ass.

    This is the problem when all the AC members are close friends, none os them are willing to publically say the other is wrong.

    Furthermore your statment that the AC is a place to call moderators to account is directly at odds with the expressed purpose of the AC.
  11. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    You know what...I'm not obligated to anyone on this board either. I accepted this position on the AC because I felt it was the best chance for me to help bring about positive changes to the JC. I choose to listen to complaints or suggestions from other users because I feel it's important that I do so. I don't have to do that. I could easily just sit back for the next three months, do my one update, help pick the next AC, and go about my business.
  12. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Unfortunately Salty, you voluntarily accepted this position and those of us down here in the gutters expect a little more from you then to be a gods be damned bench warmer.

  13. mac-nut Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    cold blue milk smoothies for everyone.

    Let's calm down. Take a deep breath. well, more than one. How about 10 deep breaths, please, everyone; exhale slowly. Thank you. :) :)
  14. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    What do you want farraday? Do you want us to bust down the doors to the MS and make them bend to our will? This constant badgering I've seen from you over the past few months is annoying as hell. It's no secret you have a major axe to grind with the administration. You bitch, and bitch, and bitch, but you offer no solutions that I can see. How about bring some solutions instead of pointing out all the problems you see.
  15. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    [edited]

    YJ edit: Stay on target
  16. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Farraday, it matters not what you did, it's what you do.
  17. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    [edited]

    YJ edit: Stay on target.
  18. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    farraday and Salty, stop. Now.
  19. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Reaper, kindly please refrain from posting until you know what the hell you're talking about.

    I have offered ideas publically and privately, I have been trying to make this board a better place and one thing you will never see me say is 'well yeah, I don't have to do anything I'll just sit here and waste space'.

  20. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Farraday, your entire post was basically saying what you DID when Salty was in the BYS. Hence, I feel I know exactly what I'm talking about.


    Come on, calm down, you're not helping anything.
  21. Mace Windy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 1999
    star 6
    Salty...relax. Prove that you are the bigger man by not letting him get to you. Don't say anything else that you will regret. As an AC member you should serve as an example to our fellow-members. You are not doing such a good job of that right now. Just compose yourself.






    :cool: Mace Windy,
    yes, there is a draft in here!
  22. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Farrie, I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you. All I want is for you to tell me what you want.
  23. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    I, for one, but be a very close reader of an essay put forth by farraday explaining exactly where the administration has gone wrong now (not in the past), what it needs to reform, and how exactly to go about it.

    ¤Night
  24. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Get rid of ther permanant positions, have 12 people on 3 months terms shifted so every month and a half 6 new people are coming in.

    Have the AC actively look for things to do instead of waiting for thigns to fall into their lap.

    And for gods sake holds mods to a standard instead of "I agree with the administration on this issue" Fine so you believe you're there for your common sense, you're allowed to have some actualy hard and fast opinions to go with it.


    Edit//The problem with that is Night the Adminsitration's problems are continued from earlier mistakes.
    If you want me though I cna borrow heavily from PMs to Vert on the subject as soon as a mod assures me I won't automatically be banned for it.
  25. Mace Windy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 1999
    star 6
    All this anger. All this controversy.

    We're talking about a message board, right?





    :cool: Mace Windy,
    yes, there is a draft in here!
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