Discussion in 'Communications' started by EmpressPalpatine, Jan 26, 2003.
Was this random mentioning of intresting groups?
And in my opinion it's better then having permanent memebrs who are much mroe likely to fall prey to ivory tower.
I'd like to think the temporary members would be able to keep them in check. Besides which, none of the original three perm members (AJJM, Dev, and Jay) were perm members for more than 9 months. AJJM and Dev stepped down early on in AC3 and Jay towards the end. Granted, that's not going to be the case with every permanent member, but the current three are all very reasonable and intelligent people and will know when it's time for them to step down.
From my profile:
"Oh what the hell I'm nothing if not a sheep." -AmazingB
Now now, those quotes in your profile are clearly labelled as being taken out of context.
As stated previously, there are plenty of spinoff JC ezboards who have been wrongfully accused of "dominating" the administration, whether they be the Slackers, The Old Refugees, The JC Cantina, The Darklords/LightSiders, and now the the Dantooine Base.
This thread was probably started by the lovely Miss Empress as a pre-emptive strike against those disgruntled individuals who want to judge the whole DB group by the one or two members they have a beef with.
Ultimately, the Dantooine Base Community threads are pretty cool and you should want to be their pals.
Of course it's just a message board, which is why we're discussing it here, on a message board. If people started calling the mods at home or sending letters to their senators about the JC, then yes, that's taking it too seriously. But since this is the internet, I don't think discussing it on the internet is taking things too seriously.
I agree with SOK.
Okay, here I go...
First of all, yes that's my name on the bottom of Tessa's first post. At 2:00 in the morning last night after reading it I thought she raised some valid concerns (I still do) and told her she could edit my name in.
However, on thinking about it while at school today and after talking to some people involved I realized that this was not done in the best way and I understand why peoples' feelings were hurt. Private discussion with AC members should have taken place. However, this DOES NOT change the fact that valid concerns were raised and now need to be discussed.
(a copy of a post I made in the DB thread, addressing this issue )
For the record... I tried to address these concerns a few times in the chats, but either got drowned out by all the homosex jokes, or blown off by people I felt that I had no other option. This issue would have come up on the JC at some point. The fact it came from me should show you the gravity of concern. Trust me, I did not want to do this. But I felt I had no choice in the matter. Several of you seem to think it was a personal attack, and have responded with personal attacks of your own on me. Fine. I can handle it. I know that my post was NOT intended as a personal attack, but if that is how you wish to see it, rather than to look at the ISSUES I addressed, more power to you.
My concern was not about the current membership of theAC, moreso as how the current membership was viewed by outsiders. It was not easy, taking a step back, and giving the situation a cold hard look, and when I did, I ssaw the potential for some major problem, both for the JC and the DB.
For those of you who seem to feel that this was a personal attack on you, I wish I could express to you the fact that, from my point of view, it was not meant as such. However, the fact that in private, you've atacked everything from my mental health to my sexual habits makes me think that, as many of you have stated both here and on the DB,that perhaps there was not friendship to begin with.
I'd like to state that I stand by the issues in my original post, but would have re-worded it to remove anyhint of it being a personal vendetta. I'm sorry that some people's pride got in the way of seeing the bigger picture.
What? I didn't think any more spam in here would hurt.
No one who's posted in this thread represents me, that's for damn sure.
-Common JC Member
make sense, plz.
And what group can you be easily categorised into for the purposes of simplifying opinions, lexu?
"No one who's posted in this thread represents me, that's for damn sure."
Hmmm... Have you PM'd an ACer with your thoughts on any subjects yet, or with any suggestions on what you'd like to see them discuss?
I don't think all of them can read your mind.
If you have concerns you don't feel comfortable with expressing in here, send me a PM anytime you wish.
In the end analysis it seems, so far people have responded to Empress Palpatine's thread in a variety of ways.
1)AC members have seemingly, quit the DB to negate any chance of their being accussed of having an agenda. A reasonable action, but perhaps not needed if this issue hadn't been inflamed in the first place.
2) Farraday has gotten very angry and made other people very angry. This has entertained me, and no one was hurt: so I see it as a good thing. Thank you Farraday, you've made my week.
3) The schism has been by now clearly defined between those who believe "AC=good idea" and those who believe "AC=fundamentally flawed." These opinions are interesting, but seem a bit premature given that - as some members of the administration have tried to point out - AC4 has only just began. I believe this debate is a valid one, but perhaps should be halted until we have more of a performance to base our evaluations upon. This is of course, only one man's opinion, who inncidently is a constant lurker and/or poster at many if not most of the "offshoot" forums that have been mentioned in this thread.
Does this make me an evil person? No. A variety of other more subtle influences make me an evil person.
As an aside to those who are being drawn on the tangent of "it is only a message board."
Well, of course it is, your correct. But the water cooler analogy that has already been mentioned is a good one, only perhaps can under-represent what the JC and Message Boards as a collective can be to some.
Now, I'm the first to admit that to be infatuated with this place is unhealthy. But it is not a crime to actively enjoy your time on the boards, and to care DEEPLY about things that may on any scale, affect your private sanctuary from the hell of real life.
I come online to relax, to have fun, and to expand my mind and horizons. If it's a debate with someone across the world in the Senate Floor, a RPG in the Role Playing Forum, talking to my favourite authors in A&A or Lit, or messing around with my local FFers: the JC boards over a virtual cornucopia of activity and interaction to sate all tastes. It IS something special, and is worth working hard to preserve...if that means the odd dash of politics, why not? It's all for fun anyway. Angry people can be fun, and so can heated debate - as long as it is regulated and doesn't become too hot, and burst into a flame. (Poor pun, I rectract it and apologise).
Empress, I'd be interested to hear your further input, especially regarding the recent resignations.
Was this in your opinion neccessary? Was it part of your intent in forming this thread, or are you dismayed at this action on behalf of the AC?
I feel that message boards are a simple, enjoyable diversion. As such, I feel that alot of things come down to common sense and we should moderate the behaviors and not the opinions. I always come back to that. I just find it extremely difficult to moderate anything that didn't happen directly on here.
I've heard of folks at other sites who registered my name and went around using it in a not-so-nice manner. The same could be true for anyone on AIM or anywhere. You can only verify who's who and what happened on these boards with 100% certainty. That is why I feel we should stick to moderating what happens here. We can't go watching dozens of chat rooms, message boards, and e-mail groups.
I feel that message boards are a simple, enjoyable diversion.
Now, that's what I always thought. And for me it still is. Yet there are apparently people out there that are not satified with this and have a need to seek out dramatic situations.
People need to relax and grow up.
This is not pointed at any particular person, just my feelings in general on this mess.
If you look objectively at the Communications Forum, weed through the socks, etc... you will honestly see roughly the same 10-15 people with recurring themes in terms of Comms threads.
Permanent AC Members
First off, "permanent" is the wrong description to use. Initially, the "permanent" positions were in fact conceptualized to actually be permanent. However, in practice, this has not been the case. "Permanent" members have stepped down when they realize they are not carrying out their role effectively due to absence, etc. A better name would be "long-term" members - they're in there for a longer term than the termporary terms.
"Permanent" AC members have tremendous benefit to both the AC as well as the Modsquad. For several reasons.
The first is experience - something which in no way should not be discounted when dealing remotely with administrative-related issues. Primarily, it is the long-term members who can effectively and efficiently direct AC members back to prior cases/situations for study. The AC forum "archive" like any other forum is literally filled with locked topics at the bottom of the forum. Permanent members know when and how things were dealt with.
There's no reason why the wheel needs to be reinvented every single time something comes up. It saves a lot of time on everyone's part - mods, AC and therefore the regular users - when there's someone or some people that do have experience.
It's a part of the diversity of opinion. An experienced opinion - even if I may not agree with it - is something that is valuable to have.
There is nothing wrong with having one or several longer-term members on the AC.
What disappoints me about the entire situation, is the ulterior motives hidden under this "statement of concern".
1. This is a personal issue between two members. EmpressPalpatine is using this issue to attack the integrity and e-standing of AYBABTU, which for reasons unknown to me, she has been become disgruntled with.
2. Some members of the offshoot board (of which EP is one), also want the place to return to the "Drama Club", rather then being a rather friendly chatting offshoot which most of us signed up for. They have instituted this DRAMA rather then perform a Soviet style purge, (which they also discussed), to remove elements that they feel are too friendly with the moderators. (this will soon include Vertical) They can then return to being a "thorn in the administrations side". (?!)
Whilst not caring at all what EP thinks of AYBABTU or visa versa, and this changing of focus and members in an offshoot would be a sad loss, but easily forgettable, what I find is unforgivable is the constant misrepresentation of the argument from certain members, as some sort of "Sacrifice for the JC" rather then really being a plot against friends, and the way the "Attack" was planned with such precision.
It is a damning indictment of what some members come to the JC for.
I like Star Wars.
I like to talk about Star Wars with other people who like Star Wars.
If more of you spent half as much time in any Star Wars-related discussion forum rather than here in Communications trying to "politcally out-maneouver" each other.....one would guess that SW fandom would be a better place.
I've noticed there is little to no drama in the actual forums themselves.
You haven't been to the Classic Trilogy forum lately.
That more than likely stems from the fact it doesn't have a dedicated moderator at the moment.
Or...the deep division between OT and PT fans.
This is quasi-off topic but falls within the "representation" portion of this debate...
Why ARE there Forums without proper Mod authority? OT and RPG both sound like they could use some...
They're actively being discussed in Mod Squad. People step down, need a change, etc..
Both of those forums (CT and RPG) are currently being discussed in relation to new forum moderators.