The "damned fool idealistic crusade".

"Sure, but the way events have been portrayed, Owen barely knew Anakin, let alone disapprove of anything he did. Ben made it sound as if there was genuine friction there - we've seen none of that. So again, I guess we just assume Ben was lying."

This is the basic mistaken assumption. It suggests that the root of what Owen believes is focussed on Anakin. The comment is meant more to characterize what Owen did not want Luke to do. It does not involve a close knowledge or relationship between Owen and Ani. All Owen needs to know, in order to see Anakin go on this crusade, is that Anakin joined the Jedi and fought in the Clone Wars.

Again, I agree with openmind here. The dialogue stands up under intense scrutiny, as well as at a surface level of understanding.

 

This is the basic mistaken assumption. It suggests that the root of what Owen believes is focussed on Anakin.

"He has too much of his father in him". "That's what I'm afraid of". Sorry, but it does seem that Owen was brooding on Anakin and what he became after he went on the "crusade".

Looking again at the question of whether Ben was lying, how about his earlier line: "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it".

Now, unless the Sith Lord Darth Vader actually wants his son (who we assume he knows nothing of) to take up his old lightsaber and become a hated Jedi, we have to assume dishonesty on Ben's part in order for this to flow. So why should we believe anything else he comes out with in this scene?

 

"Sorry, but it does seem that Owen was brooding on Anakin and what he became after he went on the "crusade"."

I agree that Owen was musing on what Anakin had become, but only because he didn't want the same thing to happen to Luke. Luke is the one he raised, after all.

"we have to assume dishonesty on Ben's part in order for this to flow. So why should we believe anything else he comes out with in this scene?"

The thing is, Ben's lies are all ones that can be explained by 'a certain point of view'. But we could be moving into spoiler territory here.

 

Hello all, interesting topic,

My thoughts,
Some argue that Owens dissaproval of Anakins actions comes from what he has been told by Shmi and the fact that he has come to love and care for Shmi.
This I find strange, if Shmi told Owen about Anakin, it would have been with pride and joy for her son and she would have been happy that he had the chance to be a jedi. If Owen truly cared about Shmi why would he resent her joy and happines? Would he say to Shmi "your son was an arrogant fool and he should never have left you" and how do you think Shmi would like that? Also Shmi probably said that Anakin did not want to leave her but she encouraged him to go, so Owen should also blame Shmi for Anakins departure.
If Owen really did feel like this he is a rather nasty person, he loves and cares for Shmi yet he resents her pride and happines in her son that he has never met.
Why would he feel so strongly about someone he has never met, if all he had to go by was Shmi words he should at least share her joy and happines about her son.

Second, some have suggested that Owen knows that Anakin became Darth Vader in the "thats what I am afraid for" line.
I am not so sure, how would Owen know this? It is not something that is common knowledge so the only way would be if Obi-Wan told him. But why would Obi-Wan do that? Obi-Wan and Yoda does not want Luke to know the truth before he is ready but then why tell Owen and Beru? It would only increase the risk of them saying too much and Luke learning the truth before Obi-Wan could tell him. Also what good would it do Owen and Beru to know what happened to Anakin? If they know that he is this evil Sith lord stomping through the galaxy they might give the child back to Obi-Wan in fear of Vader coming knocking, looking for his son.
The most reasonable scenario is that Obi-Wan told Owen that Anakin was dead and little else, there is no need to tell him that Anakin fell to the darkside and joined the empire.

Regards
Nordom

 

I don't think Owen knew Anakin became Vader at all. We'll have to wait until ROTS to know for sure, but I for one doubt he knew Anakin's fate. I think he believed Anakin died in the line of duty.

His "damnfool idealistic crusade" was becoming a Jedi. Sure, Shmi would've talked about Anakin with pride, but also with sadness that she hadn't seen him since he'd left. Owen would be able to see that; he's not stupid. He felt that Anakin should've stayed on Tatooine with his mother and not going off to become a Jedi, which was what ended up getting him killed, in Owen's mind.

 

and one more reason for owen to be upset..

Someone early said that anakin arrived in ep2 with a senator and two droid..

in fact..no..he arrive with only one droid..

after he suddently arrive..found Shmi..burried her.. to finally go away with their protocol droid..

i mean..from owen point of view..that sux even more.. lol

 

Well, C3PO *was* his. I mean, he built the critter. And Shmi kept him because Anakin asked her to. Essentially at that point Anakin gave the droid into Shmi's keeping but asked her not to sell him. Why would he not want the droid sold? There's only one logical reason, he wanted to come back and see the critter one day.

OK, fast forward 10 years. Shmi is now dead. What happens when people die? The kids inherit the family estate if both parents are dead. Well in Anakin's case Shmi is his only parent. Before a will can be processed loaned items are retrieved from the estate and returned to those who own them. Anakin never gave up ownership of C3PO, he just left him behind for awhile. Had he fully given C3PO to Shmi, then he would have had no say-so in her not selling C3PO. Thus it was still his property and his to reclaim upon her death.

As for the rest, I just love this. We've got people here arguing like absolute maniacs that Ben is a liar or not when WE DON'T YET HAVE THE WHOLE STORY! Have you all forgotten there's another movie coming out in 75 days or so? For all we know, this can all be resolved in the final espisode... and I'd be willing to bet that Ben did in fact introduce himself as Ben and tell Owen that Anakin was dead and ask him to raise his son. I'm betting Owen never heard the name Obi-Wan at all. Remember that Luke told Owen about the message from Leia and the names in it. IIRC, the line from Own in ANH was something like "Obi-Wan Kenobi? Never heard of him. Only Kenobi I know of is old Ben Kenobi, some old crackpot who lives out in the desert. Crazy guy, stay away from him."

Which then means that Owen WAS bitter towards Ben, and perhaps we'll find out why in EP3. Perhaps Ben claims that he tried to save Anakin from Vader and failed, and Owen never forgave him for the "death" of his half-brother.

So if anybody around here is the liar, it would have to be Owen. He hated Ben for getting his half-brother killed, and would say anything to Luke to prevent him from running off and joining up with Ben/Obi-Wan.

RH

 

I think I like this idea and would easily wage 20 bucks on it.

The thing that always bothered me is how they all sat on their rear ends and how Anakin was the only one who ever went after her.

Maybe I'm out of line for thinking that becasue perhaps they searched plenty long before Anakin showed up. But the thing is if I had been in Owen's shoes, I'd of atleast demanded Anakin let me come along and help. I mean that's my MOM. And as far as I'm concerned if my WIFE was out there in the sticks I had better be dead or in a coma or you can bet cash money I'm gonna be out there myself.

I was truly disgusted at their complacency to just sit by.

 

So, were to believe that Owen comes to his conclusions about Anakin based on what Shmi tells him about what he did... At 9 years old.

*SIGH*, stop it, people, please. The OT clearly implies a relationship and knowledge of sorts between Obiwan, Anakin, and Owen. Dont try to make up stuff because Lucas didnt consider this when halfass writing these prequels.

Soon, the prequels will prove EVERY profound and intriguing piece of diolog in the OT as nothing more than jibberish. The sad part about that is those who dont no any better are okay with it.

Put your pointing-finger to your top lip, poke your lips out, make any sound of your choice, then run your finger up and down over your lips. This is the sound of Obiwan and Owan talking in the OT according to the "logic" presented here.

 

I think I need some clarfification here.

So, were to believe that Owen comes to his conclusions about Anakin based on what Shmi tells him about what he did... At 9 years old.

Where did you get this idea from? Not only is it not implied in the films, it makes no sense whatsoever. Besides, the only thing we know about Anakin and Owen's relationship, outside of a very brief meeting in AotC, is that Owen hopes Luke doesn't grow up like Anakin ("That's what I'm afraid of.").

*SIGH*, stop it, people, please. The OT clearly implies a relationship and knowledge of sorts between Obiwan, Anakin, and Owen.

There IS a relationship and knowledge between Anakin and Owen. They are step-brothers.

Soon, the prequels will prove EVERY profound and intriguing piece of diolog in the OT as nothing more than jibberish. The sad part about that is those who dont no any better are okay with it.

So now the fans of the prequels don't 'no' any better? I think we 'know' quite a bit about what we like.

Put your pointing-finger to your top lip, poke your lips out, make any sound of your choice, then run your finger up and down over your lips. This is the sound of Obiwan and Owan talking in the OT according to the "logic" presented here.

This section of your post is antagonistic, and obviously not true. Poor hyperbole in your statements will not substitute for substantive arguements.

 

It seems to me quite possible that this issue won't really be touched upon in ROTS except for OB1 delivering baby Luke to Owen. From what it sounds like in ANH, OB1 and Owen have had an on-going 20 year feud since OB1 returned to live on Tatooine and to keep and eye on Luke. This could certainly explain their attitudes towards each other.

 

Its seems one thing is certain. Owen doesn't want Luke going anywhere out of the regular farmwork. Be it following Obi Wan, or going to the Academy or waste time with friends.

Owen also makes promises but doesn't keep them, for fear that Luke would indeed leave the farm.

 

The thing that always bothered me is how they all sat on their rear ends and how Anakin was the only one who ever went after her.

You need to watch it again. You seemed to have missed the part where Lars explains that they searched for weeks, but all they found was the booby traps that cost him his leg.

By the time Anakin shows up, Shimi had been gone for months.

 

The animosity between OB1 and Owen is certainly a mystery and from what I've read of the spoilers, will not be addressed in ROTS. All we'll see is OB1 handing over baby Luke to either Owen or Beru or possibly both together and then ride off into the sunset. I've even heard that there won't even be any dialogue.

I'm beginning to think maybe Darth Furbaby might be on to something when he/she says that their feud really develops after ROTS and reaches a climax by ANH. When you think about it, OB1 and Owen don't even meet until the above scene at the end of ROTS and the "damned fool idealistic crusade" idea may have come about during their feuding period between ROTS & ANH.

As far as lying goes, Owen also seems to engage in this. He tells Luke that his father was a pilot on a space freighter or some such thing, instead of telling him he was a Jedi. He also tells Luke that Ben is just a crazy old wizard and renegs on his promises to send Luke to the Academy. Obiously OB1 isn't the only one that seems to have a "CPOV."

The OB/Owen feud, like a many other plotholes, will not be addressed in ROTS. I guess we're supposed to just use our imaginations.

 

"I don't think Owen knew Anakin became Vader at all. We'll have to wait until ROTS to know for sure, but I for one doubt he knew Anakin's fate. I think he believed Anakin died in the line of duty."

Which brings up another question. What about Padme? Owen would have remembered her and would probably want to know why she isn't caring for Luke. How does OB1 explain her being out of the picture?

 

Maybe Owen simply thinks of Jedi as "crusaders" - This might be a historical reference Lucas has thrown in. The crusaders of the middle ages can be seen as noble or corrupted, virtuous or insincere. Obi Wan says "damn fool crusade" as if Owen sees the whole Jedi order as a bunch of balloney - Jedi saying one thing, then doing just the opposite.

Owen might be the typical cynical a-political individual who has a general disdain and distrust for all governments, especially those that hold themselves out to be noble.

Anyway, Owen probably knows that Jedi went on various adventures around the galaxy, and it is reasonable to assume that mythology and rumors exist in the Star Wars universe regarding Jedi. So saying "damn fool crusade" might not be referencing any particular event at all. In Owen's view, Jedi went on foolish crusades all the time.

 

From what it sounds like in ANH, OB1 and Owen have had an on-going 20 year feud since OB1 returned to live on Tatooine and to keep and eye on Luke. This could certainly explain their attitudes towards each other.

This is clearly the case- Owen resents what he sees as Obi-Wan's interference in staying on Tatooine looking over Luke. It's not complicated, and makes sense to anyone whose imagination has not withered into nothingness with age.

 

I believe when he says "he should have stayed here and not gotten involved," he means he should have never left Tatooine in the first place, stayed with his mother, and not become a part of the Jedi Order and, later on, the Clone Wars.

 

The animosity between OB1 and Owen is certainly a mystery

It's not a mystery. And I wouldn't call it animosity, necessarily, simply distrust. Yes, Owen does speak harshly of Obi Wan, but he's trying to impress on Luke that he too should distrust Obi Wan.

and from what I've read of the spoilers, will not be addressed in ROTS. All we'll see is OB1 handing over baby Luke to either Owen or Beru or possibly both together and then ride off into the sunset. I've even heard that there won't even be any dialogue.

But there isn't really any need for any. Obi Wan obviously contacted them prior to his arrival, and told them he was bringing them Anakin's infant son.

I'm beginning to think maybe Darth Furbaby might be on to something when he/she says that their feud really develops after ROTS and reaches a climax by ANH. When you think about it, OB1 and Owen don't even meet until the above scene at the end of ROTS and the "damned fool idealistic crusade" idea may have come about during their feuding period between ROTS & ANH.

But why does there have to be a feud at all?

As far as lying goes, Owen also seems to engage in this. He tells Luke that his father was a pilot on a space freighter or some such thing, instead of telling him he was a Jedi.

In his own mind, he's protecting the boy. It's part of his plan to keep Luke on the farm, where he'll be "safe." An obviously mistaken notion, given Owen's eventual nasty end.

He also tells Luke that Ben is just a crazy old wizard and renegs on his promises to send Luke to the Academy. Obiously OB1 isn't the only one that seems to have a "CPOV."

The OB/Owen feud, like a many other plotholes, will not be addressed in ROTS. I guess we're supposed to just use our imaginations.

I don't think there is an Owen/Obi Wan "feud" per se, and it's not a plothole. Owen simply doesn't want Obi Wan hanging around because he's afraid that Obi Wan will lure Luke off on the same "damnfool idealistic crusade" that his father went on.

Owen's perspective is probably something like this: despite his gruff, unsympathetic demeanor, he cares very much for Luke. He and Beru obviously couldn't have their own children, so Luke is the closest thing to a son that they would ever have. Owen doesn't want to lose him. He's afraid of Luke having too much of his father in him, and he doesn't have to have known Anakin well to form that opinion. Shmi was Owen's stepmother, whom he lived in the same dwelling as for at least several years. She no doubt talked with great pride about her beloved son Anakin, who left to become a Jedi, but surely she was sad too that she hadn't seen him in ten years. Owen probably started forming the opinion that Anakin should've stayed there and not gotten involved around about that time.

Then out of the blue, Anakin shows up one day, and Owen sees that he's impulsive, quick to run off into a situation he may not be able to handle, and has a violent streak.

A few years later, Obi Wan shows up with Luke's infant son. We may not see this in the movie, but I would guess that Obi Wan told Owen that Anakin had been killed in battle. So in Owen's mind, Anakin's damnfool idealistic crusade led to his death. That makes him even more determined to keep Luke from making the same "mistake."

 

Agreed with Shelly.

Meanwhile, its actually good of GL to let the audience "fill in the blanks" rather than showing more than necessary or exactly how it went down. We even have a clue about certain ?idealisms? from AOTC where Dooku is considered a ?political idealist?. We don?t see in the films exactly how he came to be, but allowed to again fill in blanks.

In AOTC also Anakin goes out to the call of the name ?Obi Wan?. Also the inhabitants of Tattoine, such as Watto knows of Jedi and their mindtricks. Its understandable that some characters feel disenchanted with Jedi in any case and for what Owen had witnessed, assuming Obi Wan hands over Luke to Owen/Beru, the audience and even Owen can fill in the blanks as well.

 

Well, excu-u-u-se me! Perhaps I used the wrong term. How about substituting "disagreement" for the word "feud" in my post, does that make it any better? Sheesh!
Whatever term you want to use, obviously OB1 & Owen weren't on very friendly terms and what I was trying to say is maybe this started at the end of ROTS and escalated during the period between ROTS & ANH.

 

Well, excu-u-u-se me! Perhaps I used the wrong term. How about substituting "disagreement" for the word "feud" in my post, does that make it any better? Sheesh!

No need to take such offense, Padme-II.

Whatever term you want to use, obviously OB1 & Owen weren't on very friendly terms and what I was trying to say is maybe this started at the end of ROTS and escalated during the period between ROTS & ANH.

Maybe it did. Obi Wan and Owen obviously disagreed very strongly about Luke's future. Perhaps one day Obi Wan showed up, and Owen told him never to come near the homestead again, that he didn't want Luke going off on some damnfool idealistic crusade.