Lit The Dark Forces Saga

Oh I love Jedi Knight the most. I actually dislike the narrative and mechanics in Outcast, as the whole choice of the first one was negated for a visually slick style that appealed to prequel fans.

I remember in Dark Forces there was a level with a cargo hold and a corridor that vaguely resembled the Tantive IV's interior. If you opened a door it appeared as if it was a urinal. So good.

Also, this:



I have all the WOTC minis of Kyle, but doubles of the above. He sits on my monitor stand.

 

I think a screenshot of the urinals is in this thread somewhere.

 

Ha! I'll go check it out. Perfect excuse to drop a thermal detonator in and close the door.

 

Found it.

 

Jedi Knight is, without any doubt, the superior game, but I still like the original Dark Forces much better. It feels more right. Part of me can't stop thinking that Kyle Katarn was ruined when he was made a Jedi...

 

I played through and beat Jedi Knight once, many years ago. I'm actually on another attempt right now, which inspired me to read this entire thread. I just picked up the lightsaber. Honestly, my first playthrough is a decade ago (I think), and it looked dated then, becoming almost unbearably so now. I have always disliked first-generation 3d graphics, and Jedi Knight has become pretty dire. I actually find Dark Forces has retained its style and 'looks' better because it was sprites. I beat that for the first time just a month ago.

I loved Academy, if only for the way the 'missions' felt like separate Jedi adventures. I recall Hoth very fondly, as wandering Echo base, and then fighting Alora felt suitably... Jedi.

But, of course, Outcast is the one that held my heart. I played the demo level on my Gamecube what had to be a hundred times, from the easiest to hardest difficulty. That final fight between a reborn (or two, on the hardest setting) was always exhilarating. It's still my favorite level all these years later, and its not even a real part of the PC version that I later moved to. I had endless hours of fun with spawning shadow troopers (and setting an oddly weak Luke against the other NPCs) and fighting them on Bespin, as it had the long drops and large areas to duel in. In my youth I actually found Desaan somewhat boring (a failed apprentice, and a dinosaur alien to boot [my Imperial loyalties were showing themselves, even then.]) But still, seeing Luke and Kyle fighting back to back, and a 'modern' SW FPS was amazing. It's not like we have had many of them, even now, outside the Battlefront line.

Going back quite a few pages, I saw it raised that Kyle is still proposing to Jan in the comic set in the Vong invasion, when she accepted in the novella, and how that all fit. I believe that comic was, as awesome as it is, a Tales story? Thus it was basically Infinities when it was released?

 

The last issues of Tales were actually canon - I think the NJO story was in those issues?

 

Yeah, it was one of the few canon issues of Tales. And that comic really was awesome, but there's no reason that Jan and Kyle shouldn't have been married by then. I didn't actually know until this thread that he even proposed to her in the novella, which really irks me. I do admire Kyle's chivalry in that comic though. She asks him if he's trying to tell her something by mentioning babies several times in the issue, and he says "I don't know...will you marry me?" and when she replies no, he says "Then nope, not a thing." It kind of reminds you that, even though he's got The Beard and he is totally awesome, he's still just as much a farm kid as Luke is.

That said, it is really irritating to me that Jan is never, not once, mentioned in the post-NJO novels when Kyle is involved. He is featured more heavily in Allston's books, especially Fury and Outcast, but not once does Jan (or a potential Kyle Jr.) pop up, at all. And yet Kam has Tionne and Corran has Mirax, and even Kyp had his unnamed girlfriend from Exile. Why can't Kyle be happy? Why?

 

I just choose to see him as keeping his personal life separate from his Jedi duties, except on actual missions where Jan plays transport. As for so little being said, i'm just happy he turned up at all in the later books. I recall back when that was unthinkable.

 

Wait, I just realized that urinals are no longer canon.

Jan is supposed to be part of Alpha Blue/Red so presumably she was behind trying to genocide the Yuuzhan Vong. Given the fact that Kyle effectively didn't exist in the literary universe until The Unifying Force this doesn't really matter.

I found the preeminent Dark Forces 2 mod from which that prior screenshot was taken:


Here's a pretty slick Jedi Academy one:


Edit: BTW, for those complaining about graphics, here's a playthrough of a level of Jedi Knight with a graphics mod:


Not quite to Jedi Outcast levels but pretty close.

 

I am with JoinTheSchwarz on this. Kyle, without being a Jedi? Win. After JK though, it's all just... not as good. The story's gone to hell - why have Kyle decide to stay light if he can use dark side powers?

 

I actually tried getting that working, without much success. Probably because I have the steam version of the game.

 

I had it work but some of the textures were weird. This was the Steam version. However, there's a way to get different versions of the executable file. I haven't tried it with that mod though.

 

This thread is making me think I'll play these games again.

And demand that they make Dark Forces a spin-off movie. With Chuck Norris.

 

I'm thinking about modding them and playing through them again. My playthrough when I first started this thread was all vanilla, except for Dark Forces.

 

Here's a modding guide for Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2, including the Steam edition.

You can bypass the first two steps by downloading JKVersions.exe which will give you the unofficial patch exe, which you need before installing the mods.

I'll figure out some good mods for Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy next.

 

I got it working, in the end, thanks.

I finished the canals level just after getting my lightsaber, and I actually had a really good time, though due to Katarn's only budding skills I had to use the typical weapons through most of the level. One thing that really stood out to me was that feeling of the pre-PT Jedi. Realistically I can make Kyle wade into a group of three or four enemies, and he will perhaps block all the shots, but it feels like a calculated risk that could backfire. At this point, I find reaching for my blaster rifle is a more sure-fire method, though I really felt like I was playing a Jedi when at one point I swapped to the lightsaber when low on health, and deflected enough shots to close the distance with a sprint and then a closing slash.

 

meh, first few playthroughs I only used the lightsaber for Jedi battles. The rest was proper weaponry

 

Once they figure out the new "status quo" of the Star Wars universe when Episode 7 hits, I would love for there to be a new Dark Forces game starring Kyle Katarn. I know Disney might not want to address the canon issues of the older games in the series (especially with Katarn training with Luke in a new Jedi Order in 'Jedi Outcast' and 'Jedi Academy', which may or may not fit with whatever Luke is doing in Ep. 7), but perhaps the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series can take the approach the 'Wolfenstein' series did.

Starting with 'Return to Castle Wolfenstein', the series was marketed as a reboot, yet it used the same protagonist and nothing outright prevented the series from taking place in the older continuity. They even have the main character in the latest game, 'Wolfenstein The New Order' (2014), have a dream that comprises of a recreation of the first level of 'Wolfenstein 3D' (1992).

I wouldn't mind an older, gruffer Kyle Katarn game taking place in the Sequel Trilogy timeframe, market it as a reboot, and just leave it ambiguous whether the older games are canon or not.

 

While I think its now impossible for Jedi knight III/IV I would love to see another game using the concept or a reboot of the series in the new continuity.

Same for Kotor. If you can't make kotor III, make a kotor style star wars game bioware!

 

Just defeated Sariss, and have made part of the journey towards the valley of the Jedi, to save Jan and stop Jerec. I have to admit, Yun is one of my favorite characters in SW, despite how little time he gets on screen/page. I can't recall a darksider before him that valued honor so highly ("He is a Jedi. He deserves a battle...") that it gets him killed, if not redeemed. He is the reason I liked yellow/orange lightsabers for so long, and the reason why my TOR Jedi Knight wields an orange blade. I had almost forgotten, its been so many years.

I'm finding the duels a lot easier this time around. I remember having issues on my first playthrough.

I will mention again though, just how good it feels to deflect blaster fire like the OT-based Jedi do, rather than the PT blocking you end up with in later games. Yeah, its canon that a skilled and actually properly trained Jedi can take on a dozen droids/soldiers by themselves, and a hanger full with backup, and the games had to move on with that revelation. However, there is nothing quite like that feeling of moving in on a couple of Stormtroopers, and cutting them down after taking a glancing hit. It feels so much more visceral and risky than the danger free level-2/3 block of Outcast.

There is also something about the movement in game that, despite showing its age visually, it feels weighty. When I force run, and leap, the landing metaphorically jars my teeth. If I make Kyle drop too far, I wince when he grunts, almost feeling the shock up his legs. When sprinting, the way the camera leans as you veer left and right gives the feel of actually sprinting.

I have never actually played MotS, and thus I find myself really looking forwards to it (while being disappointed that all cutscenes will be engine based, rather than video). As my avatar shows, i'm a fairly big fan of Mara, and it will be interesting to play as her, for that and for all the reasons above.

 

So does the steam version of this game work on Windows 8 or 7 (my laptop and PC respectively)? Also will the old graphics feel weird the whole time or will I get use to them? Is it worth five dollars?

 

I heard it takes effort to get it working on Windows 8. I posted some videos of a modded version as well as a modding guide to get it looking a lot closer to Jedi Outcast.

I played through it several months ago unmodded no problem with the graphics, but I've been gaming for a while and like to replay classic games. I think it is definitely worth $5. Best "Jedi" game IMO.

 

I started replaying Jedi Knight and I'm on level 4: The Jedi's Lightsaber. I bashed this level on my first playthrough, but I've realized that the reason why is because I was playing the game as I would Jedi Outcast, which you can't do.

Despite acquiring the lightsaber, it's more practical to rely on blasters and bowcasters for this level. You're mostly engaging the enemies long range and your deflection skills suck since you just picked up a lightsaber.

 

I don't think I ever played the Dark Forces saga legit. All of them even JK2 and JKA I played with cheats.

I had an absolute blast with those cheats. Particularly with the g_saberrealisticcombat_1 or whatever it was.

Noclip was fun too. npc spawn etc was also used to great effect. I loved using cheats to make my force persuade to level 4 where I could basically control the enemy.

Those were the days.