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Amph THE DARK KNIGHT RISES(now also general Batman discussion)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Import_Jedi, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    I would concede the point if only due the one solid piece of evidence that can sustain your claim: namely Bruce's injuries. As the doc that checked him out showed us, he was in pretty rotten shape, what with having no cartilage on his left knee, contussions on the kidneys, shoulders and even his brain. Not to mention whatever damage Harvey's bullet caused followed by a 3-4 story fall (which could've caused any or the injuries listed above, mainly the one on his leg). Perhaps after he limped his way out towards TDK's end credits, he simply was in no physical (or mental) shape to continue anymore...

    BUT...we're talking about the goddam Batman here. A very driven individual that perhaps managed to endure that and more because he could, indeed, take it. Thus he kept on going incognito if only for a little while longer, hanging up the cowl because he was no longer need or because his body simply could not go on anymore. We are debating and conjecturing over something the film only treats superficially and with an eight year gap to consider between the events of both movies. We both don't know everything that happened during that time. If you have something that clearly flat-out states that he hung up his gloves that night, then feel free to post it here and we'll all shut up.
     
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  2. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    That's what makes it so grating, though. Batman took 10 years off before the events in the only TKDR that matters - the Dark Knight Returns (People calling the film "TDKR" aren't true Bat-fans :p). But that was from his 40s to his late 50s, and after he'd beaten the rogues gallery a few times over. Each.

    Firstly, if you consider yourself a Batman fan and aren't listening to Kevin Smith's podcast "Fat Man on Batman", then for shame, and why not?! Anyway, I'll again defer to Ralph Garman in this episode (http://smodcast.com/episodes/ralph-garman-the-diss-knight-returns/) because he nails the criticism so eloquently.

    I don't disagree that the Batman would have not hung up the cape for 8 years after his cabbage patch doll got set on fire. But that's one of my major gripes with Rises.
     
  3. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    The best evidence that Batman quit is that Alfred has a line referring to how many years its been since anyone made use of the Batcave. Likewise, we are told in the opening of the film that Wayne has become a complete recluse, refusing to leave a single wing of his house in over a decade. Given that he abandoned his cover for being Batman, and that he stopped using the facilities dedicated to supporting his work as Batman, we really have to conclude that he was no longer Batman. Really, though, I don't much care about that. It's perfectly reasonable to stop if he's accomplished his goal. What's bizarre is the idea that he has apparently sunk into a deep, inconsolable depression for all that time. I see no real justification for this.
     
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  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Yeah I think the films made it clear that he was active b/w BB and TDK, though I have an issue with that (which I will come to) but hasn't been active since Harvey died. We want that not to be the case, because the goddamn Batman just does not quit. But, I think it is.

    So, yes, BB to TDK. End of BB, Batman gets the Joker's calling card. Start of TDK, Joker's active and Batman says "Him again". So whilst we know from the establishing shots that Batman has been shutting down the mob's drug trade, it can only have been over a short space of time.

    Batman was active for 2 years, tops...
     
  5. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Your training is nothing. The will is everything!
     
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  6. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    No, the training is mostly everything. Sorry.
     
  7. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Not according to Ra's. But if you like training so much, Blake has police training.

    Wayne's not the only one trying to save Gotham. Talia still has **** to do at that point: infiltrating and betraying Gordon's fifth column, ratting out the Special Forces guys, convincing the board members to go along with Bane...
     
  8. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I'm pretty sure they sort of made this point with the idiots running around in hockey gear at the opening of the second movie.
     
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  9. AAAAAH

    AAAAAH Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    why didn't bains just break batman completely in half and then put his top half in the prison and his bottom half in, say, the louvre?
     
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  10. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Blake will probably go the hockey pad route.

    How does one "defend" against a tautology?
     
  11. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Make a point.
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Well, I guess... let me put it this way. You're not really defending the film; you liked it and can't say why, but you get terribly upset when people point out the multitude of plot holes, errors, and other issues with the film.
     
  13. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    To answer the rhetorical question: tautologies defeat themselves.

    PPOR. Until then, you're just describing your fantasy world, which I suppose is somewhat interesting.

    Yes, as long as we're revising history, that was the topic: a multitude of plot holes and errors! [face_laugh]

    Not the film committing the grave, unforgivable crime of disappointing those who expect to be told everything about everyone up front or else.

    Speaking of so-called "plot holes", have you made any progress in figuring out how Wayne got back to Gotham yet, or are you planning to insist that it breaks the laws of physics?
     
  14. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    You know, you could really just explain your reasoning for thinking the way you do at any point. Instead, you just sort of respond with posts that go "How dare you say that!" Try telling us why we're wrong.

    In completely unrelated news, have you guys seen TPM? I think it was really weird of George Lucas to make Sabe a main character for two full hours. I mean, even though she was technically being Amidala's decoy, the actual character was Sabe the whole time! Therefore I guess we have to conclude the Queen of Naboo wasn't actually a main character until AOTC.
     
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  15. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    I can see why you missed it; it was only in every post.

    You're hallucinating. PPOR.
     
  16. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    You've said that they amply demonstrated Talia's character in her scenes as a child and as an adult, and yet you've never actually given us any description of said character. Would you like to rectify that now? Might you, perhaps, answer the questions I posed in my last post about Talia, regarding her personality and viewpoints?
     
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  17. AAAAAH

    AAAAAH Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    jesus christ, you two.
     
  18. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    PPOR?

    Post number 904 in this thread (penned by you) was a pretty grand temper tantrum. You certainly didn't bother to actually continue the discussion that was going on at the time.
     
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  19. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Awarn, I can't figure if you're an elaborate sophist or petulant child.

    I suspect, both.
     
  20. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Welcome to the scientific method. You've taken your first steps into a larger world.

    If the rule you followed led you to this, of what use was the rule?

    You also can't figure out how Bruce Wayne got back to Gotham.

    Maybe figuring things out is not your strong suit.

    You're imagining things. Perhaps you got the number wrong. Who knows?
     
  21. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Clearly. I am sorry I besmirched your deeply serious and thoughtful answer.

    You've given us a thousand reasons why we should be able to understand Talia's character, and how her reveal is just like some other character in another franchise, or how Nolan actually did a better than average job of things. But in spite of all this, you can't answer one simple question. Just tell us what Talia Al'Ghul's character was. Describe her to us. Answer the questions we've posed in the thread. Have you made some oath to God that is preventing you from doing this? It's the most basic of all questions, and we've been asking for over 50 posts now.

    What can't you just answer it?
     
  22. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    And the money. Don't forget the money. :p
     
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  23. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Wait, I thought it was a, quote, "pretty grand temper tantrum". [face_laugh]

    Now it's not serious and thoughtful enough.

    Your story is changing so fast, I just can't keep up with it.

    Now comes the point where I mention the sequence in the final act which is edited incorrectly leaving the scenes out of their correct order.

    ( Apparently, I have just made myself terribly upset. )
     
  24. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Stop being **** and you'll be apples, Arawn.
     
  25. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    It was a temper tantrum. As evidenced by your lack of thoughtfulness or serious replies.

    Were you going to answer the question now? Talia's character? We're seriously running up on 100 posts at this point.
     
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