Amph THE DARK KNIGHT RISES(now also general Batman discussion)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Import_Jedi, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    I don't remember any DNA being involved; that would be way too silly. IIRC they went the much more believable route of implanting a microchip in Robin's brain encoded with the Joker's memories and personality.
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Hey look, in lieu of an actual argument or substance, Ender_Sai is engaging in personal attacks again, and directing them solely at me, even though I'm making the same point also made by another poster, whose post mysteriously failed to elicit the same reaction!

    Looks like someone thinks they've marginalized dissent through childish bullying!
  3. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Ages since I saw it, but wasn't it a microchip with Joker DNA, hence the physical change?

    EDIT: Arawn, all you do is have the odd pissy snipe. You haven't said why you think Rises was a good film, you've just take weak and ineffectual swipes at people who say it is terrible. To date, you have not articulated why Rises was good and our criticisms invalid. A wannabe smartass perpetually wasting everyone's time with bitchy swipes is not adding value; I stand by this assertion.

    Either add comments or GTFOTB.
    Last edited by Ender_Sai, Jan 16, 2013
  4. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    In case you missed it - which makes sense, given that it was spelled out explicitly in my post - I'm not talking about "Rises" and "why Rises is good/terrible/nun/whore/whatever", nor is anyone else at this point. This is called "changing the subject". The issue at hand was your determination to treat TDKR as though it exists in a quantum state of Elseworlds - citing it as evidence when you think it helps your case, blurting "Elseworlds" when it doesn't. Pointing out the inconsistency may not have any value to you, or to your shrinking-ice-floe of a stance, but what is of value to your agenda and what is of value in general are two different animals. And once again, though this was ignored the first time: I'm not the only one here who made this point, but it is only when I make it that the result is "wasting time" or "not adding value". What effect do you think this blatant hypocrisy has on your credibility?
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Jan 16, 2013
  5. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    It's not hypocrisy if one member of the audience is uniquely dense.

    Firstly; it would stupid to claim that Elseworlds, though apart from continuity, doesn't influence.

    So, when they make references to Jason's death in TKDR, it plants a seed. Influences people into thinking, hey, it's doable. We can kill him. It's not a big deal.

    Similarly, the image of Batman with the gun and the lecture on "this is the weapon of the enemy" - it's used because it's the single best representation of Batman's philosophy re: firearms; not because it's canonical. Short an extensive monologue, or images that require the context of the story preceding it, you couldn't better describe his view on guns.

    If you've read TKDR, you'll know Batman takes a high powered rifle with him when confronting Two-Face...

    It's not picking and chosing; if there was a better panel to capture Batman's gun philosophy I'd use it. But otherwise it takes a few panels and the odd bat-anedote to achieve it.
  6. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    To be fair, I am not sure that the idea that the entirety of someone's mental architecture, consciousness, and memories can really be implanted as any usable form of data in a conventional microchip is really that more "realistic" than just saying they implanted his DNA.
  7. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    [face_shhh]
  8. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    IIRC, wasn't the rifle he was carrying when confronting Two Face more of a line-launcher than something he intended to shoot people with?

    I don't think you answered my question properly: how is Batman killing the Joker (and only the clown) once and for all such a terrible thing? I know it'll never, ever hapen in the comics since Batman needs his recurring arch-nemesis. I'm speaking of a hypothetical situation where Batman would simply refuse to put up anymore with the cycle of death Joker puts him and his acquaintances/family through on a repeated basis?
  9. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, the rifle he has was a cable gun IIRC.

    @Darth_Invidious-I'd say it's the ethical stance Batman takes against his opponents-they kill; he doesn't.
  10. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    It did fire some sort of piton-on-a-cable yes. But it was also clearly a bolt-action rifle. The image of Batman, taking aim with it - striking! :D

    As for your second point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=VRiX5Mh2YCo&NR=1

    We've referred to this book (and it's animated adaptation) a few times as a good source of the explanation.
    Last edited by Ender_Sai, Jan 17, 2013
  11. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    But killing Robin is a big deal; in this instance, what's good for a self-contained Elseworlds story is not at all good for continuity.

    To push this further, the movies are essentially Elseworlds tales. Does that mean that it would be kosher for comic writers to refashion the Penguin into a sewer mutant? Or have Wayne abandon Gotham by running off to Europe to bang his criminal girlfriend?
  12. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Eh to be fair Wayne's been involved with Catwoman for some time; in the aforementioned Hush, he reveals his identity to her, for one.

    But yes, you are right in terms of the films as Elseworlds. I'm just re-reading Death in the Family to see if Jason's return has diminished my dislike of him over the years :p
    Last edited by Ender_Sai, Jan 17, 2013
  13. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    THE DONUT RATSO RIZZO
    Ender_Sai likes this.
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, Bruce and Catwoman have been an on-and-off thing for years. I was honestly glad to see them finally hitch in TDKR just to provide some closure to twenty-odd years of writers putting them together and then splitting them up for lulz :p
  15. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Boba can we rename this as a general bat-thread?
  16. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
  17. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    Yes, we have referred to Red Hood several times now and I saw the movie (the movie left me cold to be honest, I found it dissapointing on several levels). And simply put, I'm on Jason's side on this one. There is only one solution to the Joker problem. As Bruce said on TDKR about him: "There's nothing wrong with you. Nothing at all, that I can't fix...with my own two hands." I'm not saying Batman should ever become the Punisher and start mowing down every Arkham crazy or those few non-mental patients in his rogues gallery, but I sincerely think the Joker is the one exception he should probably ever make in that regard.

    But again, that'd be the stuff of Elseworlds stories since I doubt they'll ever have Batman murder his arch-foe except in movies were the character is not true to his oath or otherwise gets around with loopholes like "I'm-not-gonna-kill-you-but-I-don't-have-to-save-you". :p
  18. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    The only word Bane ever says to Talia in the film is "Goodbye."

    Bane loved Talia to the end, and that one bit of emotion gives humanity to a seemingly evil monster.
  19. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    No, it's hypocrisy when it's two or more members with the same view but only one is singled out for attack.

    You're being too hard on yourself.

    It is when another scene from the same source, which happens to undermine the thesis, is ignored. I suppose only those panels which support a specific view are to be considered influential or germane to the "canonical" portrayal of the character.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Jan 19, 2013
  21. LloydChristmas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
  22. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I enjoyed Red Hood as a comic book movie (though I think Jason could've stayed dead - I've only read the Owls arc in New 52 but I understand Red Hood's running around as part of the Bat family?) though Year One and TKDR are more satisfying for me to watch.

    But I just like the idea that Batman doesn't feel he could stop; that his obsession is so deep if he kills one, he would descend into being DC's Punisher. Don't get me wrong, I love Frank and will defend the Tom Jane film forever, but Batman not being that guy is somehow more interesting.
  23. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    One of my favourite things about TDKR was that Bruce wanted to move on. He wanted that with Rachel, who was wrong about him being unable to leave Batman behind. After Rachel's death, Bruce does exactly that.

    He hangs up his cape and cowl for eight long years. Batman is always portrayed as obsessed and unable to stop. I always found this a little too creepy to be heroic, and I love that Bruce doesn't want to be Batman forever. He wants to have someone love him, he wants real happiness.

    What makes TDKR the best of the films is that it has a happy ending. Bruce saves his city from the greatest peril it has ever faced and then retires. He passes his mantle to Robin and goes off to the happy life that he deserves with Selina.
    Alpha-Red and DarthBoba like this.
  24. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    How does a happy ending make a film the 'best'? What's the correlation? I don't get it.
    Last edited by Bacon164, Jan 21, 2013
    Darth_Invidious likes this.
  25. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Because when it's done you feel happy as well. You see that after all the struggles and perseverance the hero gets his happy ending.