PT "The dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor."

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Jan 11, 2013.

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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    During the years preceding the Clone Wars and for most of the war the Council was unaware that the Republic was under the control of the Sith, but during the endgame of LOE and ROTS they slowly become aware of a Sith plot and even suspect the Sith is close Palpatine as he is swirling with dark side energy.

    Do you think this was Palpatine's intent? Or was the Force actually giving them a warning. I know that Palpatine initially wanted to use Maul to pick off Jedi Master's and cause panic and fear among the Jedi. Maybe he did this as well the make them panic and act rashly against what they perceived to be a close-by Sith Lord.
  2. DRush76 Jedi Master

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    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    He did? Was there a novel that verified this?
  3. Lord_kimo1 Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 16, 2009
    Master DRush76, I too am wondering the validation of the Supreme Chancellor's statement.
  4. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

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    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    This is verified in "Outbound Flight", has anybody read that novel? He states it pretty early in the novel
  5. Admiral Volshe Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 10
    I think he knew how the Jedi might react and had planned his path to power.
    He knew the Dark Side would cloud their vision, making it difficult for the Jedi to see who was behind the darkness in the Force.
    I believe that was vital, to make the Jedi unsure of who was against them (is it really Palpatine? Is he the only one?), an omnipresent threat that could destroy them at any moment.
    It is a warning, though, it's a warning that is difficult to interpret.
  6. Darth Chiznuk Dark Lord of the New Films Forums

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    Yes me... [face_devil] The fools! [face_devil]
  7. Joe Jedi Master

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    Dec 25, 2012
    star 6
    The Jedi 'knew' the senate was being controlled by a Sith, thanks to Dooku. They just disregarded the information Dooku gave them out of ignorance, because they didn't suspect Palps to be the Sith. When Palps needed the Jedi's attention drawn to him, he just stopped hiding as well as he normally did. This type of action had to be part of his plan. There's no way the Jedi suddenly 'got on the trail' of one of the most powerful Sith ever.
  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    A case could be made that they concluded Dooku was lying to Obi-Wan, after he proved himself to be a darksider by hurling Force Lightning at Yoda..
  9. Arawn_Fenn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That is the approach taken by LOE and even AOTC itself: Joined the dark side, Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now.
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  10. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    The thing about this line -- like all the lines in the saga, really -- is that it strongly depends on your particular POV. Mace's comment can simply be read, for example, as the Dark Side of the Force surrounds everyone, including the Chancellor; whether this is consciously evident to Mace or not. Because Yoda previously describes the Dark Side, or one of its metaphysical accoutrements, as a "shroud" that has "fallen", right, thus blanketing everyone -- or the fallible human institutions where such things are fabulously concentrated -- in fear, greed, and confusion? Mace's comment, then, could be just a reminder that the Chancellor is no angel, and that they're all in this corruption together; so don't rule him out kinda thing. The more conventional ruling that the Jedi actually do sense an extra clouding with Palpatine at the epicentre works as well, however. And the answer to the latter is like a puzzle with a thousand solutions. Again, it comes down to your POV.
  11. Darth Ruian Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Palpatine tried so hard to cover up the dark side in him, which he did a good job since he used the dark side to hide his true appearance and he hid the Jedi from sensing he was a Sith (more specifically a Sith Master).
  12. LukeTano Jedi Knight

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    Jul 10, 2009
    star 3
    The odd thing is, Palpatine was taking a HUGE risk with Anakin. I mean, what if Anakin decided to give into his ego, decided "I found the Sith Lord and I'll deal with him!", and he killed Sidious right then and there, then went to Mace saying the Sith had been defeated and even mentioned Padme? What are the Jedi gonna do, throw him out after he just saved their butts and saved the Republic???? I mean, the thought could have occurred to Anakin that with Sidious gone, he could get Padmé medical help and use his position of "I just saved the Republic" to even be forthright about his relationship with her.

    Anyway, Anakin himself had once said that he didn't care if they knew anymore at one point during ROTS. I mean, with Sidious dead, Grevious and Dooku gone, and the war over, he could retire from the Jedi anyway, having fulfilled his destiny.

    Also, he was taking a risk that Anakin, even if he turned, might whack him soon after anyway, especially after Padmé died. I mean, if Padmé does die and Anakin didn't have his Mustafar accident, Anakin, who actually said he planned to whack the Emperor and have him and Padmé rule the galaxy (and Sidious also said to Yoda that he knew that Vader would become more powerful than either of them), then Anakin would realize he'd been tricked and might seek revenge for being lied to.

    Also, he was assuming that whomever Anakin ratted him out to wouldn't call loads of Jedi back and have hundreds at the arrest and that Anakin wouldn't rat him out to Padmé and have the Senate indite him!

    Revealing himself to Anakin seemed a big risk.

    Of course, this isn't the only time he took a big risk. He's basically egging Luke on to attack him in ROTJ even though he's unarmed and Luke isn't, and he assumed Vader, whom he has to know has tried to betray him already, would somehow come and protect him.

    Anyway, the Dark Side definitely blinded Sidious to reality as he didn't see Anakin coming in ROTJ until he already had his hands on him. I mean, he didn't redirect his lightning at the redeemed Anakin until it was already too late for him. Once Anakin had him and was willing to hang on even if it killed him, Sidious was screwed!
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  13. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Not quite. He could feel Anakin's conflict and his problem with attachment. He only revealed himself when he felt was the right moment.

    That's how the Sith work, their lust for power is part of who they are and Sidious knows it. And it's not really a problem for Sidious anyway, at least not at that moment, since he's still more powerful than Anakin.
  14. Darth Dreadwar Grand Inquisitor of the EUC

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    Palpatine wasn't really at any risk, as he'd already learned essence transfer by this time period. Even if Anakin had killed Sidious (and I'm certain Palpatine knew he wouldn't, due to precognitive power, acute psychological analysis of his protege, extensive mind-reading to know what he'd do in a given situation), it would have just been an unfortunate setback. In fact, now that I think about it, I wonder if Palpatine, while knowing essence transfer, didn't have Spaarti clone bodies on Byss at this stage, and was instead planning on possessing Anakin, the ultimate vessel with unprecedented Force potential.

    After all, his faith in his apprentice - "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us" - doesn't quite seem to match what we know of Palpatine's selfish goals, but it's entirely congruous if he ended to become Darth Vader, become the Sith'ari. And then Obi-Wan undid the plan.
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  15. TCF-1138 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Sorry, but the EU is no longer canon. No essence transfers or clone bodies, no Byss.
  16. Darth Dreadwar Grand Inquisitor of the EUC

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    I do believe everyone is fully aware of the existence of the new canon.

    You missed the fact that this thread, from the OP onwards, is based on the EU, with reference to Outbound Flight. In other words, like the majority of the threads on the Lit board now for instance, the context is (at least partially) Legends, the frame for discussion is Legends, and reminders to the contrary are unnecessary.
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  17. TCF-1138 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
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    I didn't read it as a Legends discussion at all - it had a couple of references to the old EU, but that is all.
    And not everyone is fully aware of the Legends situation. I've seen a few that haven't been.
  18. Darth Dreadwar Grand Inquisitor of the EUC

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    Exactly, and as I said, those couple of references in the OP alone (which, with the making of my post, came to number a couple more with my references to SkyeWalkers and Dark Empire) makes "the context (at least partially) Legends." And anyone making references to a Legends continuity work released just a few days ago, as well as the detailed specifics of spirit transferrence, is likely not ignorant enough to need a reminder that "Sorry, but the EU is no longer canon." :)
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  19. IG Lancer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2015
    star 2
    The way I interpret that is that the Jedi had their precognition clouded by the activity of Dark Side users, and their perception was most clouded around Palpatine. They knew that the Dark Side was very active around him because it was impossible to read his emotions, future or thoughts, but they weren't sure it was because of his fault. It could be that there were Sith spies close to him.
  20. jakobitis89 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2015
    star 4
    I think it might even have been the Stoveralisation of Episode 3 where it's described how the council initially thought Dooku was just lying to cause trouble, then maybe he was accidentally right (someone was playing the senators but not Palpatine himself, directly) and finally that they were pretty sure someone in Palpatine's inner circle was Darth Sidious, but not sure who. They actually specifically ruled out Palpatine himself on the basis that he already essentially ruled the Republic whilst emergency powers were in effect and they didn't think one person could have that degree of control over BOTH sides.

    Palpatine was pretty good at masking his force presence given he managed to regularly chat (not always amiably) with some of the most powerful Jedi in the business and not one of them even twigged he was force capable, I can't imagine he didn't have it in mind to deliberately fog and mislead them into misinterpreting the Force. He was most certainly intending to provoke them at one point or another I think, Order 66 proves that much. His game plan would have been to gibe them into taking aggressive action and coming across as launching a coup (or even actually launching a coup that he would block), Mace's 'arrest' attempt was fortuitous but he'd have got them eventually even without that.
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  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Palpatine hide himself by controlling his emotions and using a technique that made it difficult to sense the Force within him. And this was on top of the fact that the Jedi's power was diminishing. What Mace was sensing was the evil intent from Palpatine, but not that he was a Sith. He realizing that Palpatine is not the man that they thought he was and is now the enemy. Possibly in league with Sidious.
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  22. Vialco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    They were deceived, blinded by their own complacency and arrogance, and for their blindness the Jedi paid the ultimate price, their order fell and the Sith rose to ultimate power and ruled the Galaxy for two decades.
  23. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    Palpatine was able to protect his own identity, however he couldn't mask the fact the Dark Side was rising and growing.
  24. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

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    Nov 12, 2012
    star 6
    Yeah, considering how Jedi can sense people left and right, especially if they're strong in the Force, it's pretty crazy that Palpy was able to chat with them. However, as The Man Mace said "the dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor" so they probably just wrote it off as one of those "shroud of the dark side" things. The real question is, how did they not realize who he was before the war broke out?
  25. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    The Dark Side clouds everything.

    Plus this is Palpatine we are talking about.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
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