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The Dark Side Sourcebook: For non-RPGers

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Cat, Aug 6, 2001.

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The Cat Jedi Youngling

Registered:

Mar 24, 2000

So, does anyone else have it yet? I have no idea how the game works, but bought it in a heartbeat. I loved the way they shed some light on the origins of Jerec and Sedriss, although l'd like to have seen more of their subordinates covered as well.

What I didn't like was the fact that it said there were lanvaroks (sp?) for both the right and left hand. Everyone knows they come in only the latter variety!

Any other comments?

The Cat, Aug 6, 2001

#1
FlareStorm Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

Nov 13, 2000

So what is Jerec's origin? I always wondered.

I would buy the Dark Side book, if I could afford it. The rpg materials are great, even fon non-rpgers like me. There's just so much cool stuff

FlareStorm, Aug 6, 2001

#2
Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer Staff Member Manager

Registered:

May 25, 2000

Jerec was a Jedi "archeologist" before being tempted to the dark side by the Emperor. He was in turn able to lure the six other members of his research team to the dark side as well. His research of Jedi & Sith history had already led him to information about Lord Kaan & Master Hoth and their battles on Ruusan.

Other EU character backstories given:

*Aurra Sing was born on Nar Shada and was the Padawan learner of the Dark Woman before she was kidnapped by Anzati pirates, at about 9 years old. The antenna on her head is part of a biocomputer they implanted in her.

*There were "false" Prophets of the Dark Side (from the GoDV series, I think) who were basically con artists; and the "real" Prophets of the Dark Side, who were Dark Side Devotees (see below) who were gifted in the skill of Farseeing (like Yoda & the Emperor)

*In addition to his armor being cybernetic, Lord Vader was sustained by a Sith alchemical brew that the Emperor personally doled out.

Also of interest was the fact that not only are there Force Sensitive character classes (Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, Force Adept) who turn to the dark side, but there are also dark side "prestige classes:"

Dark Side Devotee, which are Force sensitives that don't necessarily adhere to Jedi or Sith techniques or philosophies.

Dark Side Marauder, a type of Force-using berserker. JD Wilker described them as 10lbs. of hate in a 5lb. bag.

Dark Force Witch, a Dark Side Devotee from a primitive, backwater world. Think Nightsisters from Dathomir.

There is also the Empire-specific dark side classes, the Imperial Inquisitor & the Emperor's Hand.

Most interesting of all were the 3 Sith prestige classes:

Sith Acolytes, who focus on the mystical aspects of the dark side. Examples: Freedon Nadd, Darth Sidious, the Emperor.

Sith Warriors, who focus on the martial aspects of the dark side. Examples: Darth Bane, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Naga Sadow.

Sith Lords, the cream of the crop of the Sith. Typically, a character begins their career as one of the other Sith classes before becoming a Lord. For example, Darth Maul had several levels as a Dark Side Marauder before honing his skills and becoming a Sith Warrior, and had only started the discipline of the Sith Lord. Sidious started out as a Dark Side Devotee, then became a Sith Acolyte, then a Sith Lord. It is also possible to begin as a Jedi and jump straight to Sith Lord, as Exar Kun & Ulic Qel-Droma did.

There are also era notes for the Sith classes: during the Golden Age of the Sith, there could only be one Sith Lord, but any number of the other Sith classes. From the time of Darth Bane on, there could only be two Sith, period; but they could be any combination (a Warrior and an Acolyte, two Lords, etc)

All in all, a good purchase, even for non RPG-ers, though I'm cackling with evil expectation for the moment my Rebellion-era players encounter their first Dark Side Marauder....

Jedi Merkurian , Aug 6, 2001

#3
Genghis12 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 18, 1999

JM...
"during the Golden Age of the Sith, there could only be one Sith Lord"

Kind of makes the whole duelling Dark Lords and the Sith Civil War impossible, however. Obviously, there could be numerous "self-titled" Sith Lords as evidenced by Ludo Kressh and Naga Sado duking it out.

Genghis12, Aug 6, 2001

#4
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

could be another error like that human's live only 100 years fallacy in one of the WOTC guides.

When there has been evidence, in WEG and other sources of both jedi, and non-jedi humans living much longer than 100 years, thanks to the medical breakthroughs in the gffa.

And don't give me that near-human excuse, that's just total misuse of an anthrolopogical term, which translates out to something totally different(Near-human, by definition means Human ancestors, not quite evolved into humans, yet).

Though my question is? if there is only one dark lord of the sith, then why is it look like tpm era sith are both dark lords of the sith? Or am I wrong about both sidious and maul being described as such?

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#5
Genghis12 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 18, 1999

Valiento...

Two points - we're talking about the GAotS/FotSE era. WotC's SWRPG typically included "Era Rules" which cover a specific point in galactic history and provides rules of play in that era. We're not talking about Lords Sidious and Maul.

See GAotS. There was indeed typically just one Dark Lord of the Sith, he was in control of the Lords of the Sith, who were in control of the rest of the Sith. When the reigning Dark Lord died, a new Dark Lord was chosen. However, in the case of Marka Ragnos, there were two people who claimed the title of Dark Lord - Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh. Even after Ragnos' spirit intervention, the two could not ocme to terms and ended up battling - a fight which boiled over into a civil war which began the Fall of the Sith Empire.

It's within continuity to say that generally there was one Dark Lord, but I don't think it's right to say there was always only one Dark Lord or just one lord, for that matter.

Genghis12, Aug 6, 2001

#6
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

As we know, there were lots of sith lords in the comics of golden age of the sith, it was main plot point of the story. On the other hand, alot of the TOTJ(totj companion and elsewhere) source material I've read, alludes that there can be only one dark lord of the sith, yet Dark lords of the sith is a kind blanket overstatement of all the sith. I'll get my totj stuff out and see if I can find more info.

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#7
Genghis12 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 18, 1999

Valiento...
"As we know, there were lots of sith lords in the comics of golden age of the sith"

Yep. There's a difference in their society at the time between the two titles of Lord and Dark Lord. Think of it like a governing board...
The Dark Lord of the Sith was the Chairman.
The Sith Lords were board members.
The Massassi, etc. were peons.

There was one Dark Lord of the Sith, chosen from the various Sith Lords. In the case of Naga and Kressh, there were two Sith Lords claiming to be the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Genghis12, Aug 6, 2001

#8
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

Exactly, but to take it further, Dark Lords of the sith was a blanket statement for the name of the order, used during that time, and on up to exar kun's time but still generally there was only one true Dark Lord of the sith. As you said others were just sith lords, or other sith classes.

But it is also used as a descriptor, Dark lords of the sith, is to what Jedi knights is.(Or just "the sith" is used as well)

Not accurate, but used to describe all sith orders, even apprentices.

Just like jedi knights describes the order, yet more accuratly, there are Jedi knights, then then jedi masters, and Jedi Lords(with varying classes of each). With padawans/apprentices being on the bottom tier below knights. Yet the the order is still blanketed with being Called, "The Jedi Knights."

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#9
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

In totj companion here's the known sith classes, that I can see.(all blanketed under the term either "the sith" or "the the Dark Lords of the sith"), also note these can fall under sith factions not tied to the main lineage of sith(some can be offshoots, or self taught sith, but are still sith):

Sith Initiate(A kind of Occultic member of the sith lineage, worships the order) Novar

Sith Apprentice(still, is getting education to become a strong sith, has a long way to go.)

sith adept (while not a complete mastery, can still be quite formidable, and can also teach apprentices.) Queen Amanoa

Sith Sorcerer(Mastery of force, but does more alchemical studies, and experiments. creating artifacts, or creatures.) Ommin

Sith Master(mastery of the force at a deep religious level, tend to be the main class that become true lord of the sith.) freedon nadd.

Sith Warrior(A creature of darkness, warrior of pure rage. Now more a mindless weapon than anything else.) Warb Null.

"True" Dark Lord of the sith can come from one of several classes, but tends to come from those that have complete mastery of the darkside.

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#10
Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer Staff Member Manager

Registered:

May 25, 2000

Genghis:
"Kind of makes the whole duelling Dark Lords and the Sith Civil War impossible, however. Obviously, there could be numerous "self-titled" Sith Lords as evidenced by Ludo Kressh and Naga Sado duking it out."

Correct, that there were "self-titled" Lords of the Sith; however as described in the Sourcebook, only one character could ascribe to the actual prestige class of Sith Lord, with all the accompanying benefits. In the case of the Golden Age of the Sith, Naga Sadow succeeded Marka Ragnos as Sith Lord, with Ludo Kressh being forced to remain a Sith Acolyte. However the struggle between the two, or more accurately, the struggle for Kressh to replace Sadow as Dark Lord, tore the Sith Empire apart.

This restriction apparently was not enforced (within WotC game terms) after the demise of the Sith Empire, as Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were both the Sith Lord prestige class, although Kun was clearly the more powerful of the two (game terms: higher level Sith Lord)

Valiento:
"Though my question is? if there is only one dark lord of the sith, then why is it look like tpm era sith are both dark lords of the sith? Or am I wrong about both sidious and maul being described as such?"

After the rise of Darth Bane and the Rule of Two, there could only be 2 Sith of any type. It didn't matter if they were both Lords (as was the case with the Emperor & Vader) or Lord/Acolyte, or Warrior/Acolyte, or Acolyte/Acolyte, etc. As Genghis already noted, "Sith Lord" becomes the common term for a Sith, regardless of experience or specialty, just "Jedi Knight" is the common term for the Jedi.

It's also interesting to infer the progression of a Sith based on their classes. For example, Darth Maul is listed as a Soldier 1/Dark Side Marauder 3/Sith Warrior 6/Sith Lord 2. That would imply that Sidious discovered Maul as a Force-sensitive, gave him basic combat training (Soldier) then treated him mercilessly in order to goad him further into darkness & anger (Marauder) Maul eventually began to learn Sith techniques to focus the dark side, (Sith Warrior) and was only beginning to comprehend the greater glories of the Sith (low-level Lord) before being slain by Obi-Wan.

The Emperor was listed as a Noble 3/Force Adept 3/ Sith Acolyte 3/Sith Lord 10. (not-so-coincidentally, WotC gave us a clue by listing Sidious as a Noble 3/Force Adept 3/Sith Acolyte 3/Sith Lord 9, one level lower) This would infer that he began as a politician (Noble) who dabbled in the dark side (Adept) before learning the ways of the Sith (Acolyte) eventually becoming a Sith Master, the highest possible level of Lord, an honor bestowed only (in the Sourcebook) himself and Darth Bane.

As EU examples given of the other classes:
Dark Side Devotee: King Omin, Satal & Aleema, Rokur Gepta
Dark Side Marauder: Kaox Krul (from SW Gamer #5) Darth Maul before he was "officially" a Sith Apprentice (DM Journal), Warb Null
Dark Force Witch: Gethzerion, Tamith Kai
Emperor's Hand: Mara Jade, Roganda, "Black Hole"
Imperial Inquisitor: Tremayne
Sith Acolyte: Freedon Nadd, Ludo Kressh, Darth Sidious (prior to becoming a Lord)
Sith Warrior: Darth Maul, Darth Bane, Darth Vader (all prior to becoming Lords)
Sith Lord: Darth Maul (low-level), Ulic Qel-Droma (mid-level), Exar Kun & Darth Vader (high-level), Darth Bane & the Emperor (run for your life!!!)

Jerec & Kueller were given as examples of Jedi Guardians who turned to the dark side, and Brakiss was given as an example of a Jedi Consular who turned to the dark side. Aurra Sing was given as an example of a low-level Jedi who learned some more advanced (non-Jedi) combat skills before becoming a Bounty Hunter.

There's a neat "game mechanic" for characters turning to (and from) the dark side: a Jedi can "trade in" levels for Sith classes; hence Exar Kun goes from Jedi Knight to high-level Sith Lord. Likewise, a dark side prestige class character that turns from the dark side MUST trade in their levels for a "light side" class. Hence, Mara Jade goes from Emperor's Hand to mid-level J

Jedi Merkurian , Aug 6, 2001

#11
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

"Sith Warrior: Darth Maul, Darth Bane, Darth Vader (all prior to becoming Lords)"

Warb Null is also one, going by the the TOTJ companion's information and history.

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#12
Mateo Jedi Padawan

Registered:

Mar 22, 2001

Does the Dark Side Sourcebook have any background information on Sedriss,Vill Goir,Xecr Nist and Jeng Droga? and what seperates a simple Emperors Hand like Roganda Ismaren or Mara Jade from a Emperors Hand with the rank of TA like Maarke Stele?

Mateo, Aug 6, 2001

#13
JediVegeta Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

Dec 20, 2000

It sounds like a really great reference from what I hear. My question is, where in the world can I get it at? I went to Amazon and the place that had it were out and everyone seems to be out of stock as well. Can someone give me a hint as to where to look?

JediVegeta, Aug 6, 2001

#14
Genghis12 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 18, 1999

JediVegata...
Check your local wargaming?RPG/hobby store, it will most definitely have it. If you don't have one, then go with any chain with a RPG section such as Waldenbooks, etc.

Mateo...
"and what seperates a simple Emperors Hand like Roganda Ismaren or Mara Jade from a Emperors Hand with the rank of TA like Maarke Stele?"

The non-serious answer, he's Palpatine's Emperor's Hand Teaching Assistant. The serious one - Stele was awarded Ta long before we knew anything about him being Emperor's Hand. Most likely, it is a non-Hand status and is more related to some military/noble title like knighthood or something. That is, Stele probably became Ta Stele because of his flying/starfighter prowess more than anything Hand-related.

Genghis12, Aug 6, 2001

#15
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

Ta(though in the game there was a flight group Tau, he flew in)in the case of the article it was an spelling error, it should have been Tan(a special pilot's honor shared by aniken before him).

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#16
Bubba Jedi Knight

Registered:

Sep 10, 2000

You mean "Tan" Stele?

Bubba, Aug 6, 2001

#17
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

bubba Ta is a typo in the main article. But Tan is used in the Game seed box.

I was just explaining what happened.

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#18
Genghis12 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 18, 1999

Val...
We may as well go with the latest official "company line." Abel Pena, the writer of the SWG article had this to say regarding the "Ta(n)" status:
"Example: Maarek Stele's achievement of the title "Tan." That's actually a continuity fix of the most obscure order you can imagine. On the back cover of the TIE Fighter strategy guide, for some odd reason Maarek Stele is called "Tan Stele." In an unrelated and decade+ earlier flub, Luke's father is referred to as "Tan Skywalker" in the Russ Manning comic strips. I leave the conclusions to be drawn by the fans on this one."

Basically, there's a whole lot of possible reasons for the "Tan" connection - but right now they're leaving it to us to speculate on - something we love to do anyway.

Genghis12, Aug 6, 2001

#19
Bubba Jedi Knight

Registered:

Sep 10, 2000

That was a good idea of his. TimeTales will be including the forums' own speculation on it. Nothing extensive, but it's conjecture anyway.

Bubba, Aug 6, 2001

#20
PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff VIP

Registered:

Jul 4, 2001

Here's all you need to go to your local bookshop and order it there :

Star Wars : The Dark Side Sourcebook
Bill Slaviscek
Wizards of the Coast
0786918497

PrinceXizor, Aug 6, 2001

#21
Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer Staff Member Manager

Registered:

May 25, 2000

Mateo:
"Does the Dark Side Sourcebook have any background information on Sedriss,Vill Goir,Xecr Nist and Jeng Droga? and what seperates a simple Emperors Hand like Roganda Ismaren or Mara Jade from a Emperors Hand with the rank of TA like Maarke Stele?"

There are game stats & backstory for Sedriss in the Sourcebook. There is no mention of Vill Goir & Xecr Nist. Roganda Ismaren & Jeng Droga have backstory & game stats in SW Gamer #5.

Actually, Mara may be the most well known of the Hands, but in terms of mastery of the Force, she was also one of the weakest, if game stats are an indicator. Sorry, this is where the boundaries between the RPG forum & the Lit. forum begin to erode...

Mara Jade is listed in the Sourcebook as a Scoundrel 6/Emperor's Hand 5. The rest of the Emperor's Hands are listed in SW Gamer #5, and the only ones weaker in the Force (by criteria of Force-user levels) are Roganda Ismaren & Maarek Stele

Maarek is a Fringer 8/Starfighter Ace 5/Emperor's Hand 1.
Roganda is a Noble 6/Emperor's Hand 4.

The remainder are:
Blackhole: Force Adept 5/Dark Side Devotee 7/Emperor's Hand 3.
Sarcev Quest: Jedi Consular 7/Emperor's Hand 7.
Arden Lyn: Force Adept 8/Dark Side Marauder 4/Emperor's Hand 3.
Jeng Droga: Jedi Guardian 7/Emperor's Hand 9. And...
Shira Brie AKA Lumiya: Scoundrel 1/Emperor's Hand 3/Sith Warrior 9/Sith Lord 5. It was stated in Gamer that Vader started training Lumiya, but "hid her in plain sight" by offering her to the Emperor as one of his Hands. After the death of Vader & the Emperor, Lumiya took Flint as her apprentice. When he turned away from darkness, she went into hiding like Darth Bane before her, taking Carnor Jax as his apprentice. Her whereabouts after Jax's death are unknown, but the Vong have heard of the Sith, and seek an alliance with them against the Jeedai. It's also hinted that Jade & Lumiya have met on at least two occasions...

Valiento:
"Sith Warrior(A creature of darkness, warrior of pure rage. Now more a mindless weapon than anything else.) Warb Null."

Actually, that description would be more fitting of a Dark Side Marauder. Sith Warriors are FAR more disciplined.

BTW, Genghis: who's Sarcev Quest? He's the only one I don't recognize...

Jedi Merkurian , Aug 6, 2001

#22
Valiento Jedi Knight

Registered:

Mar 19, 2000

true, but I was just going by some of the info pulled out of the TOTJ companion were he was a sith warrior. I assume he got ahold of some of his mind and improved his level at some point. I didn't read it all. just the little blurb underneath. That says the armor stripped his memories of the past away from him. It literally says Sith Warrior under his character sketch.

Valiento, Aug 6, 2001

#23
Mateo Jedi Padawan

Registered:

Mar 22, 2001

Does it say anything about Kir Kanos being a Force Adept at all or was he able to kill Carnor Jax just because jax was distracted by the Trandoshan and was too busy paying attention to grabbing his gun with the force to notice the coward attacking him from behind while he was distracted, also are Alexi Garyn the leader of black sun and his lover/bodyguard Mighella mentioned in it?they were force users.

Mateo, Aug 6, 2001

#24
Genghis12 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 18, 1999

JM...
"BTW, Genghis: who's Sarcev Quest? He's the only one I don't recognize..."

Sarcev Quest "appeared" in the last published Star Wars Adventure Journal - #15. It was a grand ret-con of the highest order, kudos to Abel & the gang. Along with a picture, all that was known was that...
"Before she went to Tasariq, her lover, who unknown to her, is a fellow intelligence operative, presented her with a gift...The man, himself a graduate of the Emperor's secret Force-training program..." (SWAJ #15)

Genghis12, Aug 6, 2001

#25

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