Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Cat, Aug 6, 2001.
The "Her" most likely another hand.
Kir Kanos and Carnor Jax aren't mentioned by name, but Royal Guards as a class are listed as force adepts in the game stats. Somewhat contradictory to this, the narration states only a select few of the Guard who were found to be force adepts were taken to Yinchorr for special training. In either case, then, Kanos and Jax are BOTH force adepts.
Sedriss was revealed to be a mercenary who was captured by Imperial Inquisitors and brought before the Emperor. Young Sedriss didn't care much for authority, so Gran Pappy Palpy gave him a butt-whoopin' of biblical proportions and turned him into the good little Imperial we saw in DE II.
Jerec was a Jedi Indiana Jones who came back from a mission to find his Republic was now an Empire. After being turned to the dark side by Tremayne, Jerec took his Dark Jedi from other former lightsiders he tracked down, as well as force adepts he discovered himself. No names were named as to who was a Jedi (Boc, Maw, Sariss, Gorc & Pic, Yun) beforehand, and who was discovered. Also, no mention of whether or not Jerec was a Sith, although he is listed as a Dark Jedi Master.
Curious about Joru(u)s C'Baoth? Me too; his name is conspicuously absent from the book.
Any info on why gorc and pic are called brothers of the sith? Or is that still a mystery that only rahn knows and took to his grave?
Actually, the "her" is Yasinda Bardak, one of the Emperor's experiments. While she was Force-sensitive, she was not Force-active. The effects of the Tasar crystals spontaneously imbued her with Force-activity, of which she has no control over. She is a perfect test case and Palpatine is using Sarcev to observe the impact of the Tasar crystals on her Force-activity. Under the guise of "love," Sarcev visits her every few months to see how things are going. Her uncontrolled Force-activity is driving her insane, yet the Emperor continued with the experiment.
still could be an emperor's hand, I got that impression when I read the story in gamer 15.
she happened to come out of th same school that quest came out of, and I think that may be a school for hands.
yet palpatine decided to turn her into an experiment. Just like he was using mara as an experiment in another totally diffrent way.
What about the Tund dudes? What does it say about them?
"still could be an emperor's hand, I got that impression when I read the story in gamer 15....she happened to come out of th same school that quest came out of, and I think that may be a school for hands."
I have to disagree. I'd say that assessment is kind of an expansion on the original source which isn't necessarily there. We know simply that both Sarcev and Yasinda are "fellow intelligence operatives..." It only says that the "man" was himself a graduate of the Emperor's secret Force-training program.
Basically, they're both in Intel, but not necessarily both in any secret Force-program. There's a precedent for this in the form of fellow Hand, Shira Brie. She attained the rank of Major in the Imperial services - namely Imperial Intel. This duty was separate/prior to her service as an Emperor's Hand. Of course it's logical that Hands would/could be pulled from the intelligence community - but in Yasinda's case, I don't think so.
"I have to disagree. I'd say that assessment is kind of an expansion on the original source which isn't necessarily there."
Read the definition of hand in gamer 5. It pararphrased says most anyone trained in the force, and part of the darkside used by the emperor, in special ways are his hands, including jerec and brandl. note some aren't his hands, such as Darktroopers units, and other body guards, or untrained darkside lackeys. Hands has a kind of overencompassing definition. but since yasinda both came from a dark side training facility(It literally says that), and in gamer 5, we learn that dark side training is often done by the profits of the darkside. More info in dark empire sourcebook pegs, all his darkside adepts as the Emperor's hands.
Now I'm not literally saying she is a hand, but I'm saying with all the evidence I've read it strongly implies she might be. Kind of like tremayne is rumored to be a hand in weg sourcebooks.
Also from the notes of the info you'd never know that was sarcev in AJ 15, the picture is rather ugly, only the armor remains the same, and elsewere his historty is talked about and yasinda's it doesn't give a name. Yet both came out of a Darkside force training facility. or more accuratly "himself a graduate of the Emperor's secret Force-training program". They both went through that training togheter.
Oh, read up above, the section were it talks about the secret force training(her training not the part were it talks about fact that quest came out of the same facillity near the bottome of the page), it says "she was to one day join the ranks of the emperor's hand"pg. 215, aj 15
so it's not speculation anymore I was right. The secret force training facillity is to create emperor's hands.
now this means she was to be a hand, but she was failure to be one, because of her firm beliefs in the doctrines of the new order, that there is no force. the emperor was trying to unlock her knowledge of the force by using the chrystals, to try to turn her to his will. At some point she would become a hand, but she probably cracked before that time. so we can call here a Failed Hand.
"so we can call here a Failed Hand."
Exactly my point, to our knowledge she never was a Hand.
Makes you wonder how many to his Empeor's secret force training school for hands were Failures, and how many passed?
There's a stat block given for Rokur Gepta, but little information given about the Sorcerers of Tund. Supposedly, the TotJ-era Jedi Council was aware of them, and periodically sent ambassadors to convince the Tund to "join the Jedi Order and study the Force without the trappings of mysticism & magic." Since often the Sorcerers displayed power at least as great as the Jedi, the Council adopted a "live & let live" attitude, occasionally checking to make sure the Tund didn't fall to the dark side. Unfortunately, the Jedi became preoccupied with Sith Lord Kaan. With their numbers depleted in the aftermath, the Jedi weren't able to check on the Tund, and they were eventually forgotten.
About Sedriss, an excerpt from the Sourcebook:
Various Imperial organizations tried to recruit Sedriss, but found him insolent, insubordinate, and violently opposed to authority. He was awaiting execution for the death of a handful of Imperial officers when he was spirited away by members of the Inquisitorium and dragged before the Emperor himself, who asked Sedriss simply: "Would you like to kill me?"
The Emperor looked inside Sedriss' heart and in his own way cut to the core of Sedriss' problem. Sedriss could not respect anyone who he could kill-which included most of his superiors in the military. The Emperor made a deal with Sedriss: They would duel, and if Sedriss won, he could take the Emperor's life. But if Sedriss lost, he would serve the Emperor wiht unquestioning loyalty, or suffer the most terrible, lingering, ignominous death he could imagine. Confident of his chances with the frail old man, Sedriss agreed-and was promptly crushed to the ground by the Emperor's power. Sedriss admitted that the Emperor had defeated him and promised to honor their agreement. The Emperor didn't desist. Sedriss felt his ribs collapsing, and swore that he would serve the Emperor. Still, the Emperor didn't stop, until Sedriss felt his heartbeat slowly coming to a stop and begged to serve the Emperor. When he was finally able to stand, instead he knelt-convinced that this was a superior that was truly superior to him.
"There's a stat block given for Rokur Gepta, There's a stat block given for Rokur Gepta, but little information given about the Sorcerers of Tund. Supposedly, the TotJ-era Jedi Council was aware of them, and periodically sent ambassadors to convince the Tund to "join the Jedi Order and study the Force without the trappings of mysticism & magic." Since often the Sorcerers displayed power at least as great as the Jedi, the Council adopted a "live & let live" attitude, occasionally checking to make sure the Tund didn't fall to the dark side. Unfortunately, the Jedi became preoccupied with Sith Lord Kaan. With their numbers depleted in the aftermath, the Jedi weren't able to check on the Tund, and they were eventually forgotten."
Well to add more info to that, the Essential Chronology say the are a Sith Sect practicing ancient sith arts. Looks like they secretly hid there way from the jedi.
They could have been followers of a Sith Lord/Dark Jedi and after he or she died they changed for the better and after many centuries they turned back to their old ways, Nikkos Tyris founded a Sith cult called the Jensaauri?and they werent evil just followers of his ways and beliefs.
"Makes you wonder how many to his Empeor's secret force training school for hands were Failures, and how many passed?"
Well, Mara is living proof that you can pass "Hand school" and still be a miserable failure.
Not, of course, that you're biased.
No information was given on Gorc and Pic. Maybe when Jedi Knight II comes out, Gamer will have a Dark Forces issue and explain more in depth the origins of the Dark Jedi, but until then, we only know a little about Jerec.
As far as the definition of a Hand:
"The Emperor's Hand is an assasin recruited, trained, and employed by Emperor Palpatine himself...The Emperor's Hands operate out of devotion to the Emperor. Though they righly fear his wrath, they also feel gratitude or affection for him, for he rewards their services lavishly...Each EH operates alone, often with the false idea that he or she is the Emperor's only assasin. The Hands are given a great deal of fupport and authority, with special clearances designed to allow them access to whatever resources they need. The rarely identify themselves as Hands, however..."
Yes, sir, there's just something about red-headed green-eyed Emperor's Hands failing miserably.
"Jerec was a Jedi Indiana Jones who came back from a mission to find his Republic was now an Empire. After being turned to the dark side by Tremayne, Jerec took his Dark Jedi from other former lightsiders he tracked down, as well as force adepts he discovered himself. No names were named as to who was a Jedi (Boc, Maw, Sariss, Gorc & Pic, Yun) beforehand, and who was discovered. Also, no mention of whether or not Jerec was a Sith, although he is listed as a Dark Jedi Master."
Didn't Jerec train Sariss first, then the others in some order, except for Yun. Sariss found and trained Yun herself, didn't she? Or am I just making this up?
Yes, Jerec trained Sariss, who in turn trained Yun. So it is conceivable that Sariss was once the Jedi padawan of Jerec, and they both turned together.
BTW, as far as the Dark Empire 2 Dark Jedi, it says (I cannot find a page number) that the people (no names mentioned) "empowered" by Palpatine were not true Dark Jedi; it was only a title. They were bathed in the Dark Side but had no formal training. So that's why Leia could kill them. See what happens when you give an Imperial pencil-pusher a pat on the back and a lightsaber and expect him to defend Darkness?
The Cat, in the Audio version of Dark Empire 2 Sedriss is talking to Emperor Palpatine about the death's of Zasm Kath an Baddan Fass and mentions that the emperor still has other Dark Jedi like Tedryn Sha and Xecr Nist that can take their place, so i think that they were either Dark Side Adepts waiting to be trained as dark jedi or dark jedi without any real training until palpatine mentally transferred his darkside knowledge to them.
Also does the Dark Side Sourcebook have any information on the insane clone Joruus C'Baoth? he is a Dark Jedi Master and is far more powerfull than Jerec,Sedriss,or Aldric Brandl.
Joruus C'Baoth's stats, etc. were all given in WEG's HttE Sourcebook, DFR Sourcebook, TLC Sourcebook and TTT Sourcebooks.
Depending on how one converts the stats (there's a lot of wiggle room), WotC has generally been conforming to WEG in terms of general power levels. Joruus is indeed one powerful lunatic.
However, the power levels with respect to him and Jerec, Sedriss or even Brandl are heavily time-dependent.
For example, it's probable that Jerec was the most powerful Force-user in the whole galaxy at the time he began tapping into the Valley of the Jedi's power. Kyle was only able to stop him because he was the Chosen One to do so.
Same thing for Sedriss. When he was Executer, he was most likely one bad dude - one of the baddest Force-using dudes in the Empire. Which is to say he could be in C'Baoth's power range.
Similar thing for Brandl. However, his tale was never finished. We don't know if he became a Master or not. If he was, he would presumably be comparable in power to Joruus.
Was Jeng Droga more powerfull than Sedriss was? he is an expert swordsman with advanced mastery of fighting with two lightsabers at the same time and was the most loyal Emperor's Hand out of all the others including the force users that werent hands like sedriss and the Sovereign Protectors.
according to dark empire handbook sedriss, and the DE2 force adepts were emperor's hands.
Not really in the same respect as Mara Jade or Jeng Droga were but they were more like his Military Hands meaning that they went out and executed his military plans for him and directed battles against enemys like the New Republic and individual people like Balmorra's governor Beltane, the people in Gamer 5 like Sarcev Quest and Roganda Ismaren tended to kill political enemys and also spied on his enemys for him, while those like Jeng Droga and Maarek Stele guarded the Emperor's Shadow his yacht,while stele was a part of the emperors sword fighter wing escort, Blackhole tended to control the Imperial Holonet and worked a the head of intelligence, Arden Lyn was used to train the Byss Mages and Sovereign Protectors, and Lumiya didnt really do much of anything since Palpatine died at Endor shortly after he appointed her as one of his hands.
Just got it, in the mail. saw some continuity errors, it says in jerec's part that rahn, and morgan katarn died, after the emperor died.
which is wrong, since from Dark Forces 1, we know morgan had already died.
And the novels talk about this as well. As for rahn, it states that they were doing a mission for the emperor, who was still alive, when they killed rahn(several sources setting a time about 1 yr or so before battle of endor).
The error in the "darkside" being that jerec didn't start doing things against palpatine's will until after he died, and wasn't awhare that palpy still lived. When from the books we know palpy was still alive, and jerec was doing duties for him, while working against HIM secretly.
Add that to a couple of other errors in other WOTC products, even still WOTC, seems to be doing an excellent job.