Books The Darth Bane trilogy

Agreed. I thought the exact same thing, that a piece of Bane was somewhere within Zannah, and that it'd be an important plot point down the line. I wanted them to make more novels about other Master/Student Sith in the Order of the Sith Lords, but especially a doulougy on Zannah and Cognus.

 

I figured the implication was that whoever won the battle literally acquired all the loser's strength and skill (subsuming the defeated's spirit into their own being), thus ensuring that Bane's vision of each successive Dark Lord being more powerful would be carried out in every sense...



... and also transforming the Order into a Highlander tribute band.

Which I'd actually be totally cool with, because I love Highlander.

 

The cartoon is still my favorit version

 

Heh. That was actually my first exposure to Highlander.

I was very surprised when it turned out there WASN'T actually any nice, non-violent way to pass on the quickening as portrayed, there.

 

That was my interpretation as well.

I remember, long before the Bane trilogy, there was this popular fanfic called Fall of the Sith, which introduced the concept of the Banite Sith jumping into their slayers' (most commonly, obviously, their apprentices') bodies, not as a full essence transfer, but as a sort of instant corruption to the dark side (if their slayer was a Jedi, striking them down in anger) and as a guide.

Now, Andeddu might have said the loser of the contest of wills was consigned to Oblivion, but I don't trust Andeddu further than I could throw him, since we're dealing with an actual spirit here rather than a holographic gatekeeper. He also said the ritual resulted in the destruction of the body (clearly a reference to Palpatine exploding), but Vitiate's essence transfer is just one example of this not always being the case. We also have Khem Val and Darth Zash maintaining 'joint custody' of Val's body.

So I believe whatever essence of Bane that clawed into Zannah's mind was in fact pretty much all of Bane's spirit (perhaps shorn of all of his powers and skills), not having succeeded in taking over Zannah's body, but acting as a devil on her shoulder; Zannah gaining his abilities, and allowing all Sith in the line to seek council from their forebears' spirits if they so wished.

I wish Darth Plagueis had left this kind of survival open, as it did with the 'Anakin's creation' issue.

 

Really? I always felt Plagueis' survival was left open. I mean most of his death scene is from Palpatine's point of view. Also, a few days(?) prior Plagueis had a vision of Vader and other elements of the future.

 

I'm not talking about Plagueis' survival. I'm talking about the technique of essence transfer surviving Gravid's sabotage, whereby apprentices gain their masters' power and knowledge even in a failed attempt.

 

Oh, okay, my bad.

 

Did that really happen that often? I think not.

 

Did what happen?

The acquiring of the loser's strength and skill? No, that isn't canonical. I'm referring to my and Ulicus' interpretation, stated above:

Or do you mean essence transfer in the Banite line in general? Because Plagueis states that apprentices often had to watch out for an attempted essence transfer from their masters, up until Gravid. (So something Cognus and probably Vectivus had to watch out for).

 

I read a fanfic, a loooooooooong time ago, probably shortly after or before AOTC came out. It dealt with Palpatine's origin and was actually pretty darn good. Actually got a few things, like his Master being an alien, spot on. (Though I believe that in that fic his Master was from some reptilian species, honestly can't remember) Anyways, it of course dealt with Palpatine killing his Master, in his sleep, and when that happened his Master woke up, as he was struck down, grabbed Palpatine, and transferred all of his Sith knowledge to him (locations of bases, techniques, contacts, etc.) that Palpatine didn't have.

Anyways I just find it funny that that fanfic was similar to what others are saying above. (It also featured the....Tridente(?) Lightsaber, which is basically just the three bladed lightsaber we've seen in trailers for the new film. Either the author was ahead of his/her time, or became a key writer for Disney. )

 

Do you happen to remember the name of the fic? I'd be quite interested in reading it.

But yeah, on a similar note, I remember coming up with a story that had pretty much the exact plot of The Force Unleashed, only taking place in a setting identical to TOR albeit ABY, and that's not even mentioning the dozens of Darth names they stole from me. Venamis hurt the most, since I didn't like the name of my most beloved villain being applied to a failed Bith Sith apprentice and be forever asked "Oh, can you come up with a different name? There's already a Venamis" in online RPGs

 

Darth_Dreadwar No I don't, sorry. I actually found it a few years back and had it saved on my computer, but that was right before my computer stopped working and I had it replaced. Wasn't able to transfer anything saved on it over to me new one smh. Hated that. I'll see if I can find it again though.

 

I just love the setting as it a very unique take on a Post Apocalypse world.

 

In the context of Dark Empire, of course. I feel like it's specifically a reference to what we see in Empire's End.

 

as far as the trilogy goes, i enjoyed the first novel immensely, but the other two were not so great

 

Does that mean that Palpatine/Sidious had the Darth Andeddu -holocron?

 

It's likely, given that it fell into Dooku's possession. However, Palpatine's discovery of essence transfer was attributed to Ashka Boda and, more specifically, the Jedi Holocron he carried. I think it's possible Palpatine used both the Holocron of Heresies and the Tedryn Holocron to discover the secret of spirit transferrence; perhaps Andeddu, dismissing Palpatine as a pretender, was uncooperative and Palpatine had not mastered the ability he had initially learned from Andeddu until he drew upon the knowledge of the ancient Jedi (and presumably their knowledge of the ancient Sith rites?)

 

I wonder, when Andeddu even considered Bane a mere pretender, whom he would accept worth enough to acquire his secrets? If not Palpatine neither, maybe Darth Vitiate? Or is that one to cruel in Darth Andeddu's attitude?

 

Andeddu did not exactly dismiss Bane as he did Krayt, but rather expected him to be patient and prove himself worthy of his secrets.

In truth, an innate feature of Sith holocrons (as per TOTJ Companion) is that they berate and belittle those who access them regardless, and only surrender their knowledge if their trust is won through flattery, or if they are cowed into submission (as Bane did to Andeddu, I suppose, through ripping the knowledge from the holocron). Obviously the gatekeeper of Andeddu's holocron is not a simulacrum but rather his transferred intellect, so Andeddu's insulting Krayt might have been representative of his views rather than Sith holocrons' usual shtick, in which case I'd say he'd probably favour ancient Sith.

Still, I suspect Andeddu was rather narrow-minded philosophically; he's of the ancient Sith, who embraced something akin to the Rule of the Strong, yet unlike them favours the Darth title which signifies individual supremacy, and seemingly opposes the One Sith, whose structure are more similar to the ancient Sith than the Banite Order. It probably came down to vehement opposition to the concept of cooperation among the Sith, rather than any preference for structure; so, I'd imagine Andeddu would have been critical of both the Brotherhood of Darkness and the One Sith for their notions of equality and unity, respectively, even if he did not care for limiting the number of Sith. In fact, I suspect Andeddu would have been critical of the Rule of Two for removing the social Darwinist element that comes with thousands of Sith struggling to claw their way to the top... And at least in terms of which ideology is more 'purely Sith,' I'm inclined to agree with him. I think Bane was more similar to Kaan than he'd care to admit, as both thought the 'War of the Fittest' - as the Sith called it - that raged as the Sith ruled the galaxy (no longer even needing to care about the medieval Jedi Lords and the paltry few Core Worlds they held) was some kind of mistake or weakness that needed fixing. Kaan was too influenced by Jedi dogma, and Bane too influenced by Kaan (even in a reactionary sense).

 

jedi_samuel Iron_lord

So who actually won. I thought Drew said Zannah won?

 

Yup:
Actually he said that Bane won - and that he didn't intend it to be that ambiguous:

 

But what I am getting from that is that he makes Zannah win, but with the cost of having some of Darth Bane's presence transfer into her, hence the twitch in the left hand. But when he says, "The second odd assumption you have to make to think Bane destroyed Zannah is to assume that you are dealing with an unreliable narrator. Once Zannah identifies herself, I refer to her as “her” and “Zannah” throughout the scene. To believe Bane took over, you have to assume that I am intentionally misleading you throughout that scene for a cheap GOTCHA moment at the end." that is saying Zannah actually won. Is it not?

 

You, er, haven't been here long, have you?

 

You're right - I miswrote the first line. Fixed.