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The Darth Plagueis, Midichlorians and Anakin Relationship

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lokus, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. lokus

    lokus Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2004
    I'll preface this post by saying that I haven't read the Darth Plagueis novel yet. So my theory may have been explained in that book. Even though the Darth Plagueis material in the book is considered non-canon I've been thinking about something ever since I saw ROTS. If this has been discussed before I apologize.

    There is a scene in ROTS where Palpatine and Anakin are in the theater. Palpatine starts telling the tale of Darth Plagueis the Wise. If I remember correctly he stated that Plagueis figured out how to manipulate Midichlorians to create life. Do you think that Darth Plagueis was responsible for creating Anakin? If you recall in TPM when Shmi talks to Qui-gon, she stated there was no father for Anakin. Could it be possible that Plagueis saw that Sidious would kill/overcome him and planned somehow to create Anakin via manipulating Midichlorians? Maybe Plagueis knew that Anakin/Vader would eventually defeat Sidious and as a result Plagueis would eventually get his revenge for being killed by his apprentice. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Manager / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Mod Note: Any discussion about what was contained in the Darth Plagueis Novel should be addressed in the Lit Forum. Howeverm any issue surrounding the Palpatine / Anakin discussion or Anakins conception is fair game for discussion here.
     
  3. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    no i don't think so. I still think the Force created Anakin to bring balance.
     
  4. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    It could be both. The Force works in mysterious ways.
     
  5. Alienware

    Alienware Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Palpatine's statement in RotS is deliberately made to be open to interpretation. We simply don't know for sure how Anakin came to be. Maybe Plagueis did create him, maybe he didn't. It doesn't really matter for me, because one clearly shouldn't manipulate the force in that way, but should instead be in symbiosis with it. So I like my own personal view that the Sith were ultimately punished for their trying to manipulate the force.
     
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  6. Seagoat

    Seagoat Music and PT Section Sentinel star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Without taking the novel into account, it's pretty much implied that Plagueis was responsible for Anakin's creation in some capacity
    The novel elaborates that Plagueis's meddling with the midi-chlorians is what provoked the Force into countering via creating the Chosen One, though obviously that fact isn't brought to light in ROTS
     
  7. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    I have to say that until I saw it suggested here it never occurred to me from watching the films that Plagueis may have created Anakin.
     
  8. TX-20

    TX-20 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Shmi's comment about Anakin having no father clearly is a cover-up for her torrid affair with Darth Plagueis.
     
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  9. Seagoat

    Seagoat Music and PT Section Sentinel star 5 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 25, 2013
    A Human-Muun affair would be quite.... interesting 0.0
     
  10. oierem

    oierem Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    There isn't an answer in the movie, therefore it's open to interpretation. There is a (quite subtle) hint in the movie yes, but it's Palpatine who's saying it, who is a lying manipulatior and the whole thing can be true or not. It is unknown if the ability to cheat death even exists or if it was all a lie.
     
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  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe Palpatine, like Dooku, is good at manipulating with the truth, as well as lies:

    "Hundreds of Senators are now under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious"

    "Darth Plagueis was a Darth Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise that he could influence the midi-chlorians to create ... life."
     
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  12. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Manager / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I am not sure that statement is not true. Whether they knew it or not, every Senator (with the exception of a small group of Senators destined to lead the Rebel Alliance) was controlled by him
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Hence "Manipulating with the truth".

    Using truthful statements, in order to manipulate.
     
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  14. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Manager / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    From a certain point of view, I presume
     
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  15. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    I didn't think of it the first time I saw the movie. It was only after Pablo or someone hinted at it in a magazine that summer.
     
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  16. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    In the audio commentary of the movie, Lucas says he left it vague on purpose so that the audience could interpret it both ways.
     
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  17. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    In the DVD commentary, it's Rick McCallum talking at that point, and he seems to indicate that the scene reveals Anakin's origin. But in Rolling Stone Lucas said that it was up to the audience to decide.
     
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  18. Phoenix267

    Phoenix267 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Having Anakin being born as a results of the Midichlorians would make him unique compared to the various other characters. But would it be because of the Sith or because the Force was unbalanced?
     
  19. Oissan

    Oissan Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Quite frankly, I find the idea of Plagueis creating Anakin rather stupid and am rather happy that it never made it into the movie.

    That being said, it would be kind of funny if Plagueis thought he finally managed to cheat the force and influence it in a way to create life, only for the force to turn the tables and willingly allowing it to happen, turning the "creation" into the very being that will destroy the Sith. A sort of "you play with something that is way out of your league, fine, but don't think it won't come to bite you in the butt" kind of way ;)
     
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  20. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    It could be both.
     
  21. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWAC-y Mod of SWTV star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Wow, really? I think I remember that being my first reaction.

    But for the sake of this discussion, I wonder whether it occurred to Anakin?

    Heck, for that matter, what did Anakin even know about his parentage? What did Shmi have to say when her boy asked, "Mom, who was my Father?"

    Skywalker knew, certainly, that he was viewed (at least potentially) by the Jedi as the "Chosen One," and presumably that his midichlorian count had tested through the roof, but did he even know anything about being "created by the will of the Force"?

    If so, I can't imagine that Palpatine's words wouldn't have raised some questions in young Anakin's mind. But he seemed not to betray any visible signs of having picked up on the thread.

    Now, obviously, due to the circumstances Anakin found himself mired in at the present, his attention was focused squarely on the notion of "saving people from death." This makes it reasonable, I guess, that he would table any thoughts about his own conception for the time being.

    But I can't help but wonder, especially once Darth Sidious revealed himself as the keeper of the Sith flame, and Darth Vader pledged himself to his new Master's teachings, whether Vader ever thought to dig any deeper into the question of his own creation?

    By that point, would Vader have even cared enough to bother?
     
  22. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    That's how I interpret things, and I think it's brilliant.
     
  23. SkywalkerJedi02

    SkywalkerJedi02 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2013
    lokus it's a very interesting for sure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. Rauno

    Rauno Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2013
    I was under the impression that Plagueis created him. Though it's strange that Shmi just accepted the pregnancy without any action. Surely it wasn't a common thing.
     
  25. Among the Clouds

    Among the Clouds Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2001
    Without taking the novel into consideration, I think the films definitely leave it open-ended, just as was intended. We learn in TPM that Anakin was born to Shmi as a virgin birth of sorts. But, did Palpatine know this? If he did, he could have used it to hint to Anakin in ROTS that Plagueis was behind it. It stands to reason that Palpatine knew. The question is whether he was telling the truth with a lie or telling a lie with the truth. It's truly up to the viewer to make that decision or at least open themselves up to it being a possibility.