The Dawn of a Mary Sue.. The Bria Tharen HATERS club.

I like the part where Leia turns it back on Han. In ROTJ, when she shows him that she has a hidden blaster, and he grins and says, "I love you," and she smirks and goes, "I know."

It's just so cheeky!

Bria/Han were too mushy-happy-kissy. Even when they were miserable.

 

I like feisty couples who work together without getting all lovey-dovey and kissy-face every six seconds.

Han and Leia are nonpareil smoochers in the SW galaxy, and while some might think that there are too few bussing scenes between them, sometimes less is more. They don't kiss all that often, but when they do...wow!

 

Han and Bria reminded me of a bad romance novel (oh, wait...). I like the way that Han and Leia could be partners as well as lovers.

 

I could have sworn TOS had a feature that involved shooting stopping and someone (I forget who) deciding it was a "poopy" line for Han Solo.

 

I heard the original line was something like "Well you better remember that, cause Ill be back", but every take, Ford said "I know". Lucas didnt like it, but it stayed. Bit like the "No thanks, I already had a wife" line in From Dusk Till Dawn.

 

In the book, he says, "I love you too. And I'll be back."

Somehow, that doesn't fit Han.

I don't mind some steam-heck, I like smutty fan fics.

But it has to be FUN. Not syrupy.

 

When Carrie Fisher was in the scene, she was zonked out on drugs. She kept flubbing up her lines, and they kept reshooting the scene. After a long time, she finally got it right--and by then, Ford just said "I know".

Not true. Transcripts from behind-the-scenes conversations disproves this, as does the Annotated Screenplay, although for some reason it keeps being trumpeted as fact, which infuriates me.

Harrison Ford conferred with Irvin Kershner about changing the line because he didn't think it fit. They changed it without consulting Carrie Fisher, and she was really mad about that and got into a big fight with Ford; they later reconciled.

Lucas wasn't sure about the line change, and wasn't totally convinced until he saw that a test audience loved it.

 

UP with Bria hate!

 

"I know" was brilliant, it fit so well for the pair. Why the heck did they go and spoil it for us? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I completely agree! To ret-con the famous quoting of "I love you" "I know" to make it a reference to an EU character is not just unnecessary, but insulting to the movies, and to the character of Han. What's it supposed to say for Han when he's supposedly bearing his soul to Leia and thinking back to his dead girlfriend?

Harrison Ford came up with the line "I know"; for Crispin to put her handprint on it is totally egotistical.

Oh, and I found the excerpt from Once Upon a Galaxy where it explains how the line came about.
once upon a galaxy

pages 131-147

At this point in the story Han Solo is brought to what symbolically, if not actually, is his execution. The scene takes place in the carbon-freezing chamber on Bespin?s Cloud City, a city administered by Lando Calrissian. Han hopes Lando will provide refuge for him and his companions, Princess Leia, Chewbacca, and Threepio. But soon after this group?s arrival on Cloud City it is clear they have flown into a trap.

Boba Fett, a bounty hunter who is pursuing Han, has preceded them to Bespin and made a deal with Darth Vader. Vader?s real quarry is Luke and by ordering Han to be put into carbon freeze, an ordeal that may prove fatal, Vader is merely experimenting. If Han survives being frozen solid, Luke will meet the same fate.

In all this, Lando Calrissian seems to acquiesce. In fact, he is powerless to do otherwise beneath the might of Vader. Naturally, the travelers feel they have been totally betrayed.

Another element the director must weave into this sacrificial scene is the emotionally tense relationship between Han and the princess. It has been a cat-and-mouse game up to now, but this scene of Han?s departure into the void must surely be the moment of truth for both of them ? and for the audience. How much to reveal, how much to imply? It is something else Kersh has to decide before the scene is played.

And so, on a day meant for lazing in the summer sun, I followed Kersh onto the carbon-freezing-chamber set, he with his cordless mike, me with my receiver and antenna, feeling somewhat like a robot strayed from Hoth. It is 8 A.M.

IK = Irvin Kershner
PS = Peter Suschitzsky (dir. of photography)
HF = Harrison Ford
DT = David Tomblin (1st AD)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We enter Stage 5, already throbbing with activity, and climb a stairway to the central platform where Kersh joins director of photography Peter Suschitzsky, who is lighting the set for the long shot of the group?s entrance. They take turns looking through the lens.

IK: We?ve got to be very careful on this set never to put the frame-line on any strong horizontals. If we do, the light will be there as we follow the action, jumping in and out of the frame-line, and that worries me. Little things like that are so important. This set is so peculiar that we?ve got to keep watching tiny relationships of light like that. I?m also worried whether the set is too bright back there.

PS: (Suspecting, perhaps, that Kersh is playing to the mike) I think you?re just worried about everything.

IK: Yes, I am worried about everything. Everything is important, especially things like that.

PS: I thought that light was just fine.

IK: I want to steam it all up. I would like to see figures through steam. I know that?s hard on the light because steam washes your light out, but we?ve got to do something. (Kersh proceeds to direct the shifting of various lights.) We have to be very careful. Go back a touch. Now go all the way back. I want the camera back there out of the way. Yes, put it there. Move the lights. I have to move everything! I want it all hazy, all figures in space. I must do this now before I position my actors. Once I get them into position we?ll take two cameras and do the action, the whole bloody thing.

(Harrison Ford arrives, looking very much like a student who has

 

Wow, thanks for that whole thing. You're amazing.

EDIT: In fact, you get a *hug*

 

Awwww thanks I can't really take credit though, boushh2187 and set 271 typed it up, not me.

 

I believe that the passage about Mary Sue was written by Melyanna and reposted by Doughreyme. Just wanted to give credit where it was due.

Oops! My bad. Thanks for the correction.

Isn't it ironic that two of the biggest Mary Sues in the EU (Bria and Mara) have reddish-gold hair?

 

I thought Mary Sue meant it resembles the author. Tim Zahn has black hair and a beard

 

Nah, that'd be more like a Gary Stu.

If anything, Thrawn more resembles Zahn than Mara Jade.

 

Or Karrde


Or Bel Iblis


Or....

 

Didn't Zahn actually pose as Karrde and Stackpole as Corran with Shannon as Mara? For some reason, I thought that was hysterical

Anyhow..I think a Mary Sue is more what the author WISHES they would look like/be, not what they actually look like/are.

 

Zahn has two Gary Stus, Thrawn and Karrde. Mara wasn't really a Mary Sue when he created her; later authors Mary Sue-ified her. Both male and female authors used her to live out their fantasies--the female authors wrote her as the type of woman they wish they could be, and male authors wrote her as the type of woman they wish they could bed.

Bria was a complete and utter Mary Sue from the start.

 

IMO, the Mary Sue-ification of Mara was complete in VOTF (written by none other than Zahn), when she put Luke down for each and every mistake he ever made in the EU (most notably his serving the cloned Emperor), conveniently forgetting her own less-than-perfect past.

 

Ah, can the thread go back to being about Bria? I do realize mary-sueism is an issue with Bria as well, but keep it to Bria, there's a separate thread for Mara and Mara-hate related issues.

 

Sorry, Elori, you're right. I apologize for drifting off topic.

Back to Bria...she stinks.

 

haha that's right

It really got on my nerves how she was a part of the Rebellion, much like Leia was. I loved those books, don't get me wrong, but Bria... :: Why...

 

Can I join?

I agree with Elori, we should stick to Bria bashing here

On the subject of Mary Sue-ism, it's not so much Bria's character that's Mary-Sueish, but how everyone treats her. Just look at the books from PS to RD:

- birds who land on her finger while she's at the beach with Han :rolleyes)

- Han worshipping and pining away for her for ten years then immediately jumping back to her when she appears in his life again

- Boba Fett (FETT!) who admires her beauty and strength even though he was supposed to kill her, he can't go through with it because he likes her too much

- Imperials whom she can manipulate easily with her good looks

- Lando who's awed by her beautiful singing voice and great figure

- Bail Organa who decides to join the Rebellion mainly due to Bria

- the Wookiees who thinks she's beautiful and brave

- Winter who idolizes Bria's dedication to the Rebellion

- her troops who look up to her as an angel

- how the Rebellion sees her as a martyr when she dies

I wish there had been SOMEONE in the HST who didn't think Bria was the be all and end all, but alas, everyone thought she was the greatest thing in the universe. Despite the fact that her character, to me, seemed pretty weak (come on, running away to a cult because she couldn't handle university?), boring (she didn't have any of the fiestiness or sense of humor Leia does), and selfish (every time something didn't suit her perfectly, she gave up on it).

 

Yes!! The Boba Fett thing! I had completely forgotten about that! Thank you eeyore for reminding me! I can't believe they didn't leave Fett out of her sinewy grasp! Anything but Fett! Oh poor Boba...

 

(if this pastes twice, sorry! My brother's computer is being tempermental)

Yes!! The Boba Fett thing! I had completely forgotten about that! Thank you eeyore for reminding me! I can't believe they didn't leave Fett out of her sinewy grasp! Anything but Fett! Oh poor Boba...