The Dawn of a Mary Sue.. The Bria Tharen HATERS club.

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by jewlmc, Aug 7, 2002.

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  1. TorynFarr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 3
    ok, heres where i'm supposed to rant about how much i hate bria, but i just got my pictures from my trip and i'm in a very happy mood, so i'm just gonna give my support for this thread. rah!
  2. MenionLeah Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Much like Crispin's version of a heartbroken, hurt-by-love Han doesn't jive with the devil-may-care, cheerful Han we see in ANH.

    Agreed, Shelley! Han sure doesn't look like someone pining over a lost love - Hell, he begins flirting with Leia just after meeting her!

    Shelley, I think it was you who said this, but I loved the point that was made that a "Bria" isn't necessary to explain why Han was distrustful of female Rebellion leaders. Han has been presumemly abandoned at a young age for years, has likely had to depend on no one but himself ever since his teens, is it any wonder he would be distrustful of most people? As for the Rebellion - Han is a smuggler, smugglers generally do not like to get mixed up in crusades as they live on the fine edge between good and evil themselves.

    Being burnt by a woman to explain his snappiness to Leia - What man wouldn't be POed at a woman who told them "to do as I tell you to do?" right after rescuing her?!?

    As for Han and Leia waiting three years to get together - It has always been my impression it was Leia's choice, not Han's - Han is the one pushing for a relationship at the beginning of ESB, and is hence frustrated that she is refusing to admit her feelings for him. Having your planet destroyed is likely to leave someone quite emotionally distressed for some time!

    And to finish off my argument against why the HST, in particular Bria, goes against what Han Solo's character was supposed to be, here's a little quote from the Great Flanelled One when talking about Han Solo's character:

    "...a loner when he's introduced in ANH who doesn't trust anyone, save his best friend Chewie...Luke and Leia become the first true friends he's ever had aside from Chewie, and Leia becomes the first woman he has serious feelings for..Of course this scares the hell out of him and he tries to cover it up with his usual bravado and cockiness...."
  3. DarthDave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 2
    While I hated Bria Tharen for reasons mentioned above, I still think the Han Solo Trilogy were some of the best, most fun to read of all the star wars books. Bria was the one, and a big downside, but the trilogy is some of the most enjoyable star wars novels i can remember.
  4. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, Crispin's books were well written and enjoyable, despite Briarf.

    Thanks for posting that Lucas quote, MenionLeah. I am much more inclined to take Lucas's word about why Han was the way he was than a paid author's. A.C. Crispin may be a fan of Han, but Lucas created Han. He knows Han's motivations because he created those too. He did not create him to be a lovesick doofus, pining over some silly girl who hurt him--and he specifically says that Han hadn't had serious feelings for a woman before Leia.

    I don't think it took three years for Han to start pursuing Leia. I think he'd started pursuing her well before the events of ESB, but she resisted and denied her feelings. Understandable, because she'd lost everyone and everything she loved when her home planet was blown up.

    I remember a Briarf fan offering the truly ludicrous argument that Leia was "an obvious attempt to outdo" Briarf. Never mind that Leia was created some 20 years before Briarf. But anyway...someone said in reply: "OK. Let's say that in the mid-70s, Lucas looked into the future, saw the Bria character in one of Ms. Crispin's books, and decided that he was going to create a character to outdo her. Well, guess what? He succeeded." :)
  5. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Welcome back, Toryn! I'm glad you had a great trip.
  6. Jedi15 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 4
    Briarf? Hehe. I like that. :)
  7. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Thank you, Ms. Crispin!

    BTW, does anyone remember what book he was first mentioned in? It's been awhile since I read the first four books of the X-Wing series. (I'm too enamored of the Wraiths!)

    I totally despised Bria as well, but other than that, I loved the Han Trilogy. I just wish that we had found out about Han's father and what happened to his parents and why he was abandoned. Wouldn't Lucas allow anyone to reveal it? :(

    Shelley-where on EARTH did someone say Leia was an attempt to outdo BRIA??? Links? I'd LOVE to see that! This had to be a deliberate troll.
  8. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    If Bria left Han in TPS and never came back, i wouldn't have a problem with her...its when she came back in THG and the last one that i got pissed
  9. Doo-Kimmie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2001
    star 1
    Oh this thread has been going on without me! And all the really good reasons for hating briarf have been listed already.

    Well, here's my main reason for hating briarf... her existence has actually convinced some people (with whom I've had debates with on this and other boards) that briarf is a better match to Han than Leia.

    **shivers**

    Ramada, I don't think so!
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Baron Soontir-Fel's first appearance was in the comic X-Wing Rogue Squadron: In The Empire's Service, issue 21.

    He then cropped up in X Wing 5 Wraith Squadron but was revealed to be an imposter.

    So Fel's appearances are to the best of my knowledge:

    HST: 2: the Hutt Gambit
    XWRS: 21-35.
    NJO: Dark Journey

    Jedi Ben

    p.s. He is generally bloody cool the whole time too! And that's from a bloke's viewpoint! :)
  11. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Vision of the Future as well
  12. Daughter_of_Yubyub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    her existence has actually convinced some people (with whom I've had debates with on this and other boards) that briarf is a better match to Han than Leia.

    I know. What were they thinking. Bria is a horrible match. (I leave her name unmutilated only out of respect to A.C. Crispin, who is actually a good author, other than one bad character.)
  13. Adi_Gallia_9 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 5
    While some people do like bria more than Leia *coughGlitterbugcough* they are a minority. For example, the user on these boards named Bria likes the character of bria, but she's also a H/L fan and believes they should be together. Only very few seem to think that Han and bria are a good match. But they do seem to be a very vocal minority. :p
  14. Elori Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2002
    star 4
    I like Han and Leia as a couple! Comparing Bria to Leia shouldn't take long, there's not much to compare. I think Leia's much better than Bria as a match for Han :)
  15. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Leia is Han's soulmate and his true love, the first woman he ever loved.

    I'm a tad protective of Leia because she tends to get slammed on all sides--from Padme fans, Mara fans, and Bria fans, though not all of them, of course.
  16. Elori Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2002
    star 4
    Well, every character gets slammed on. But ah well...
  17. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    I'm a Mara Fan, but I'm also a Leia fan.

    I hate Callista too, and (ducks) Kyp.

    You're not going to have everyone like or hate the same character.

    Still, Bria's getting on my nerves. NINE YEARS.

    Or perhaps they should have THOUGHT they still loved each other, met again, looked at one another, and said, "Huh uh. No freakin' way."
  18. Elori Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah I know... Bria should have died earlier...
  19. Adi_Gallia_9 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 5
    Leia does seem to get some flack, but overall I'd say she is appreciated throughout SW fandom. I mean, there are people who will never like some characters, but in general I'd say Leia is a well-liked character.

    Here's something you may like, Shelley.

    In Defense of Leia

    George Lucas, the father of Star Wars. No one can deny that he is Star Wars. He created it, gave it life, and kindly shared it with us. And we loved it; we loved the story, we loved the battles, but most of all we loved the characters.

    For many out there, Han and Leia became personal favorites and when they finally got together in ESB, it was wonderful. George Lucas united them, he was the one to bring them together. The creator of all things Star Wars intended for them to find each other. A watching of ANH reveals from day one, it was his plan for them to be together. Lines like, "He certainly has courage," and "Do you think a princess and a guy like me...?" are testament to that fact.

    Lately, however, debate has emerged over whether these two are truly soulmates. Well, they are. In the everlasting debate over cannon, the only thing ever agreed upon is that what George Lucas created is cannon. Nothing else can face it and win. It is in this point that one must consider the debate. Truly, if George Lucas united them, it cannot be wrong!

    A minor EU character, one of hundreds of EU characters, cannot hope to upset that. When Han and Leia were brought together, the character of Bria had yet to be conceived, let alone be a factor in Han and Leia's relationship. She is merely an addition to an enormous galaxy; an addition who's existance is doubtful in the face of the cannon debates.

    One small character, created decades after the movies, has no bearing on the established cannon, the movies. What George Lucas united, may no one tear apart.

  20. Jedi_Suzuran Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 5
  21. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
  22. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    George Lucas united them, he was the one to bring them together. The creator of all things Star Wars intended for them to find each other. A watching of ANH reveals from day one, it was his plan for them to be together.

    Yes, from what I've heard, that was his plan from the beginning. Everyone expected him to pair Leia with Luke, because Luke was the hero and "should get the girl," but Lucas likes to defy expectation.
  23. SOLO_FOREVERMORE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Hi all! I just have to say that I totally agree with what has been said about bria being a total mary-sue. A few months ago I found these boards and I learned about the HST books and decided that I would give them a try. I had read some early books of the EU but they never really caught on for me, so I never bothered again until the HST(since Han is my favorite SW character :) )

    Oh boy! I found Bria to be soooo obnoxious! My God could she be anymore perfect?! Han's true love? I think not! Starting the rebellion? Don't make me laugh! Han never getting over her? please.

    *starting to become upset*

    Anyway, I just wanted to post my two-cents on this bria nonsense about her being this great rebellion starter and Han's true love..

    *begins to gag*

  24. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Her dad was cool, though. He didn't deserve a whiny little brat like Bria for a kid.

  25. MenionLeah Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oh boy! I found Bria to be soooo obnoxious! My God could she be anymore perfect?! Han's true love? I think not! Starting the rebellion? Don't make me laugh! Han never getting over her? please.

    Welcome here Solo-Forevermore! I completely agree with your post :)

    Adi your post was excellent as well!

    The problem with Bria is that there should be no doubt in the fan's minds who the love of Han's life is. Because of Bria, there now is. Because of fans reading the HST before watching the movies, there are a group of fans who believe Bria is Han's true love and Leia is his rebound girl who he only married because his true love died. If you need proof, just look at the threads entitled "If Bria hadn't died, would Han have married Leia?" and "Who is the real love of Han's life - Bria or Leia?"

    That is one area of Star Wars that belonged to the movies and that AC Crispin should have not touched upon.
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