The DC Animated Universe Thread (The Timmverse & Beyond)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Sn4tcH, Jul 15, 2006.

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  1. Sn4tcH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    This thread is here to discuss the whole of the DCAU. The beauty of the whole DCAU is, like its comic book counter-part, the Universe is all held in one world and rarely (if ever) contradicts events from past episodes even if the events happened in a different series with a different hero. The reason it's called the Timmverse at times is because of the contiuity's influence, Bruce Timm. Here's a list of shows that take place in the continuity of the DCAU:

    Batman: The Animated Series (1992-1995)
    Superman: The Animated Series (1996-2000)
    The New Batman Adventures (1997-2000)
    Batman Beyond (1999-2002)
    Static Shock (2000-2004)
    The Zeta Project (2001-2002)
    Justice League (2001-2004)
    Justice League: Unlimited (2004-2006)


    It also spawned a few films:

    Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
    Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero
    Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
    Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman


    Batman:TAS is considered to be the first truely serious American cartoon ever made. Some events like Mask of the Phantasm and BB: Return of the Joker are probably even too mature for most children. The shows were so good they even affected the normal DCU with characters like Harley Quinn being brought into the comics, and Two-Face and Mr. Freezes characters getting serious overhauls. Some even argue the DCAUs versions of Superman and The Joker are the best representations the characters their film and even more recent comic incarnations.

    But this thread is a place to talk about everything, the good, the bad, and continuity. Favorite epsiodes, favorite moments, it's all here.
  2. ComicDiva Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2004
    star 4
    Come on dude, I know that "Superman: Braniack Attacks was bad", but you should still put it in there.

    Anyway, Bruce Timm and Paul Dini are gods. :) The stories they concoted, the characters they designed, it is all pretty mind boggling. They started with Batman and ended with JLU, with every series getting progresively better (and bigger). Oh, and let's not forget... we have to thank them for giving Mark Hamill's second signature role:
    The Joker, although funny story, he really wasn't supposed to have that part. In fact, Hamill is the one who tracked down Dini and Timm back when they first started doing Batman and he asked them for a role. He was a gangster or something in one of the earlier episodes, and then the guy who should've played Joker got fired or quit or something, and again Hamill asked them for the part. :)
  3. Sn4tcH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    I actually didn't mind Braniac Attacks! But apparently it doesn't fit into DCAU continuity, and instead fits into the Superman film continuity. Weird, I know. Also, just for clarification, the following are not part of the DCAU continuity:

    Superman: Braniac Attacks
    Krypto the Superdog
    Teen Titans
    The Batman
  4. Panther50 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 3
    I love those shows, the best Superhero cartoons around. It was first seeing them that made me start buying Batman and Superman comics.
  5. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    Yes, Braniac attacks is outside of continuity.

    There is some debate on Krypto being outside of it though [face_thinking] and Titans is close and IIRC the only reason it wasn't officially sanctioned as part of the Timmverse was because of the stylistic differences. Then again since Timm wasn't directly involved with either (although he was a producer on Titans and Dini did contribute to Krypto) they are admittedly outside of the "Timmverse" (which if are splitting hairs is different from the DCAU).

    Either way Timm has put out some great shows in his time (some certainly better then others). I'm really looking forward to New Frontier though I doubt they can fit that in the continuity of the Timmverse.
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Yeah, Titans is close to being connected- they sort of dance around the issue at times, but never address it.

    Static Shock sucked however. I really hated how they forced that into the DCU animated universe. For a crappy afterschool special wannabe, it had no buisness being related to the other shows. Especially with the poor crossovers with Justice League (he beat Brainiac with Napster, I mean, come on!).

    I really wished they'd have at least kept Static Suck cameo out of the Batman Beyond future- at least then I could have ignored SS completely. How did that crap ever last 4 years is beyond me.


    Batman TAS, Mask of the Phantasm & Return of the Joker are by far the highlights of the universe though, with Justice League/Unlimited coming in next. Somehow I never caught too much of Superman TAS, so I'll have to get around to picking those DVD's up.

    I've nevr heard of The Zeta Project till now- what was the deal with that?
  7. Panther50 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 3
    Zeta Project was about some assasin robot that developed feelings and couldn't kill anymore so it went on the run from its Government handlers. I think it was spun off from Batman Beyond.
  8. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    I was wondering how you could be so harsh on Static while leaving out Zeta but if you never saw it that explains that :p

    Zeta was spun out of Batman Beyond. He was a rogue assassin droid that Batman was originally hunting for with the military. Once he found out that the droid had rebelled against the army because he didn't want to kill anymore Batman started helping him get away from the military. That episode of Batman Beyond that introduced him was good enough but not enough to start a series off.

    I thought it was a joke when I first saw ads for it. I watched a couple because I really liked BB and I thought it was terrible. Its odd for a number of reasons. First off it didn't look like the same character. The droid in BB had a boomerang shaped head with no real human features and when he got his own show it was a more generic cylindrical robot head
    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Zeta.JPG]
    What I really didn't like though was how it was supposedly set in the same world as BB but they were totally different. You could make the argument that Gotham is always darker then any other place in the DCU but this was so bright and bubbly it just seemed completely different. I've heard of some BB fans coming around to it in its second season but I could never get that far.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Teen Titans is close to being part of DCAU, because of various references made on both TT and JLU. Speedy appearing in the Seven Soldiers episode of JLU, looking and voiced much like he is on TT. Kid Flash seen in TT, voiced by Michael Rosenbaum who did the adult Flash. And seeing the Kid Flash costume in the Flash Museum. Krypto doesn't have as strong ties to Superman, but there's nothing saying that it couldn't fit. Brainiac Attacks, despite all appearences, is not part of the DCAU. The writer of the film is one of the guys who works on The Batman and The Batman vs Dracula. They used animation designs from Superman, because it was cheaper than creating an all new design. Tim Daly, Dana Delany and the rest were only brought back to try and build hype for the film.

    I enjoyed Static Shock's crossovers with the DCAU. Pretty entertaining, you get to see your favorite characters and we have a crossover between two different continuities. The kind of thing that you only see in comics. Zeta Project's design was different, to appear to a younger crowd. I admit they probably shouldn't have tried it as a spin off.
  10. Sn4tcH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    See the reason I started this thread is because I've suddenly really jumped into the DCAU head first. I was watching Boomerang at a friends house and the "Two-Face" episodes of Batman: TAS came on. And it just hit me that this show might be even better now, as an adult, than when I was a kid. It was made in such a somber and adult way, and I really really enjoyed it. So I decided to start picking up the DVDs that are being released.

    So far all I've picked up is the four Batman movies, 3 of which I've never seen (Mask of the Phantasm I actually saw in the theatre). And I picked up the first season of Batman Beyond, which before yesterday, I had never watched an episode of. I thought it looked silly when it first came out, but the character Blight/Powers is keeping me hooked and I want to see what happens.
  11. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    I felt the same way about BB when it came out. I thought it was going to be a silly show with a "cool" Batman designed just to sell toys.

    It was sooooooooo good though. It just got stronger as it went on too. I really enjoyed some of the JL episodes (forgot what it was called in the future though [face_blush] ).

    Then when they did "Epilogue" on JLU it wrapped everything that had happened in STAS, BTAS, BB, and Justice League so well it was just about perfect.
  12. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    I loved most all of these series so much. I have all the Batman collections and movies as well as all the JL and Superman collections released so far. Batman Beyond was better than it should have been, and I must get Return of the Joker on DVD. I remember when that came out that Mark Hamill was very vocal about being unhappy with it. Can anyone (Sinister) tell me why?

    I missed out on a lot of JLU so you'll have to clue me in on this one.


  13. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    I don't know. Its best if its seen and not told.

    Here is Wiki's page for the episode. It was the last episode of season 4 and since they thought it might be the last ever they tied up a lot of loose ends.
  14. RedHanded_Jill Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2004
    star 4
    i have batman, jl, and superman DVRed every night. my two sons and i watch them if not when they come on the next day. my oldest, josh-15yr old, loved batman from the beginning. he was born in 1990 and as soon as batman came out he ditched barney and all those shows. we would watch it together. i took him to see phantasm and it is a cherished memory for us both. return of the joker has to be one of the best animated films ever. pixar and disney need to give these guys carte blanche. these guys are cutting edge. i even wrote letters to stop cancellation of jlu. i dont know how many times we watched epilogue. who would have thought the antimath equation would have done him in? wasnt it great to see superman finally let loose.


    i will stop now cause i am rambling. mark hamill said it best in his comic book the movie movie. something about comic people arent ashamed of their fantasy life. we are in no danger of going postal. (that was my summarization, not his)
  15. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    The DVDs are only up to season 2 right now. I know it only recently changed to "Unlimited" but I was just wondering why? And was this really the last season, ever?

    Is it truly the end of the Timmverse, or are there more projects in the future that will maintain continuity?
  16. RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    I love the Timmverse! Some of the best portrayals of the DC characters in a long time, perhaps ever.

    I don't even consider it separate shows, but one long epic. And so many great moments, too.

    "I'm not the man who killed President Luthor. Right now, I wish to heaven that I were, but I'm not."

    And when all six pulled Flash out of the Speed Force, even Batman... Incredible.
  17. RedHanded_Jill Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2004
    star 4
    after season 2 they started to include all sorts of superheroes not just the big 8 or is it 7. the stories expanded.
  18. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    The change to Unlimited was because they wanted to focus on some of the second string heroes instead of just the big 7. It was great that they did. Who would of ever thought that you'd ever get to see a cartoon version of Hawk and Dove or the Question?

    Sadly I think this is the end. Timm has a direct to DVD video that is supposedly going to come out but I think they'll have a real hard time putting that into continuity as it was hard enough putting it into comic continuty.

    CN is trying to get away from licenced shows and while Kids WB is getting more there are even now questions of how long that will last :(

    Thats why a lot of the fan sites were calling on people to really support Krypto. It may not be the best of them but it would send the message that its something we want to see more of in different forms ;)
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >>and I must get Return of the Joker on DVD. I remember when that came out that Mark Hamill was very vocal about being unhappy with it. Can anyone (Sinister) tell me why? <<

    First I heard of him being upset- perhaps it had to do with the controversy surrounding it being re-edited in a censored version? (but that was eventually rectified when the original, uncut, (and, might I add, superior) version was released on DVD).

    The only other possibility might be (without spoiling it) he possibly didn't care for a big twist in the film.
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Okay, here's the lowdown.

    -Batman itself started as Alan Burrent has tried since 1986, to get Batman off the ground as an animated series. One of the few, really good episodes of Super Powers was the origin of Batman. Adam West had reprised his role during this time of the series. And he did a damn good job playing it seriously. In it, we learn Batman's origin while pursuing the Scarecrow through the spot where his parents were killed. By 1991, Burrnet finally got his chance and as we know, a legend was born the following year.

    -After two seasons, the show was relaunched as "The Adventures Of Batman & Robin". Robin was now in nearly every episode and the show had a new opening/closing titles. This went two more seasons. Well, it was one season divided and aired over two years.

    -Superman was the new project for WB. Something new and different. However, not long into the first season, Bruce Timm was called to see about reviving Batman for another season. After creating some new designs, he signed on and that's where the 1997 year began. More DCU characters began appearing, after having only Zantana, Zartara and Jonah Hex on Batman. This helped the popularity of both shows.

    -After completing their order of episodes for Batman, the crew was asked to create a Bruce Wayne series, following his adventures before donning the mantle of the bat. Paul Dini felt it wouldn't work and instead, they pitched Batman Beyond. Which did get picked up and became a success. WB wanted a more youthful tone and they got it, while older fans were given props with Bruce being there.

    -When ROTJ was made, this is where things when wonky. They had the script and storyboards presented to the WB execs and they got the greenlight. Dini, Burrnet and Timm all felt that even thought it would be DTV, they could still treat it just the same as if it was a theatrical release. As we know, the first animated film was more adult than the show had been. Well, when the execs took their first look a week before release, they had a fit. Though it should be noted that the election was going on and violence had been a hot topic. The film was recut and new footage added in place. This lead to Paul Dini walking away. Batman Beyond was also affected as edits were made to a lot of the show's third season, during the fights. And the show was cancelled, not long afterwards.

    -However, Bruce Timm was offered a chance and enough money, to do Justice League. Plus, "The Call" episodes of Batman Beyond helped prove that a show with that many leads could work. The show moved to Cartoon Network and became an instant success. Teen Titans soon followed, riding off their success.

    -After the second season, the show was relaunched as JLU, with the goal of making things more diverse. New ideas with new lineups. And this would give them the chance to have as many different DCU characters as possible involved. Sadly, due to the launching of "The Batman" over on WB network, an embargo was placed on the Batman characters. Only a couple of villians were left in. Batman would appear in fewer and fewer episodes, as the last three seasons progressed.

    -An animated film was planned, which would feature the Crime Syndicate and would bridge seasons two and three together. But it was shelved right before filming began. The film would feature the first appearence of the Invisible Jet, which is why you see it in "For The Man Who Has Everything".

    -The show ended this past year. Timm has said that he is working on "New Frontier" which is based on a popular mini-series though it will probably not reflect DCU continuity in the animated series timeline.

    -In seasons three and four, Project Cadmus from the Superman books made it's DCAU debut. This would then lead to the fourth season finale, called "Epilogue". In it, we finally learn the full origin of Terry McGuiness and how the JLU changed into what it is in the future. The show was originally supposed to end with season four, but they got a last minute renewal. But when you watch the episode, it all comes ba
  21. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    That's just so sad. :( ~sniff!

    So there's a Director's cut, or different version of Return of the Joker on DVD? I have the VHS version that I bought when it was released. How do I differentiate the two? Is this still available?
  22. Sn4tcH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    The box is the same with a black border and it says "The Original, Uncut version" at the top in red letters. And yeah, I just ordered it on amazon, though it's hard to find in stores.

    And here's a list of edits made to the movie.

    So do you think that the DVD set will have the un-edited episodes?
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    No word on the animated front that I know of. It is possible. Mostly the edits included adding flashes whenever a punch or a kick was done. As to Batman Beyond, due to low sales and loud protests, it was release with the uncut version.

    Changes to ROTJ.

    -A number of punches were cut from all the fights.
    -Joker calls the Jokerz gang putzes, but was changed to yutzes for the cut version.
    -Joker whips out a gun and pulls the trigger, which yeilds a flag. Joker fired it again and the flag imbeds itself in Bonk's chest. In the edited version, he pulls the trigger a second time and his Joker venom is used on Bonk. We hear him laugh himself to death, but it mostly happens off screen.
    -Joker tells Dee Dee to take the trash out, refering to Bonk's body.
    -When Terry finds the mess in the Batcave, the Ha-Ha's were made to look less like blood and more like paint.

    -When Barbara talks about trying to find the kidnapped Tim Drake/Robin, she contacted her girl/girl connections. The term was cut and altered.
    -A scene is cut where we see one of the Dee's pretends to be the girlfriend of the scientist who invented the laser. She's seduced with the lights off, until they're turned on by the Jokerz. The scene just starts with the lights turned on.
    -Footage of Tim Drake being tortured by the Joker is cut. We see Joker electrocute Tim and he licks his lips. In the edited version, we just see Bruce's reaction.
    -Joker whips out a knife which he uses to slash Bruce across his chest and then stabs him in the leg, causing the limp. The knife and the visible damage was removed.
    -In the uncut version, Tim uses that gun that was used to kill Bonk in the future, on Joker. As he's dying, the Joker says "That's...not...funny...". In the cut version, Tim throws down the gun and charges Joker. The Joker pushes Tim off, but slips and falls back, as he reaches out to stop his fall he grabs some cables and is electrocuted to death. We see him reach out, then it cuts to Batgirl hearing him scream.
    -Tim's insane laughter is cut down.
    -When the Jokerz attack at the nightclub, Dana's injuries are lessened somewhat.
  24. weezer Jedi Grand Master

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    May 16, 2001
    star 6
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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