The Death of Ronald Reagan

Again, in case you missed it: "This is a man who did more to bring about the collapse of communism in the U. S. S. R. than anyone, with the exception of His Holiness Pope John Paul II."

Sounds political to me.

Wrong. That's not political. That's historical FACT.

The fact is, we can debate the merits of Bush's record and the same goes for Reagan. It's not disrespect to do so just because he died. If Ronald Reagan did not want to be the subject of political debate, he should have stayed in Hollywood. Period.

Wrong, again. I didn't say debate about Reagan's record was disrespectful because he's dead. What's disrespectful is turning a thread that was dedicated to honoring the recently passed man into a thread where you blast him politically. You want to debate Reagan's record, start your own goddam thread about it. Just keep it out of here.

 

Wrong, again. I didn't say debate about Reagan's record was disrespectful because he's dead.

This is the Senate. You heard what the mod said. If I created another "goddam" thread as you suggest, I bet it would get locked because it's redundant. Yes, this thread is for discussion. Get over it. And it's pretty arrogant to proclaim what's "FACT."

But let's play your game for a moment, just to see how silly it is. Every word that comes out of my mouth is "FACT." Bill Clinton saved the world from Hitler. Don't go contradicting me, man. We don't need that trash; Bill Clinton killed Hitler and 100 other Nazis singlehandedly and that's "FACT." Just because I say so.

 

I for one will honor this...erm...unique american in a way that is symbolic of his eight...long...years in office......and i shall do my best to forget him...

P.S. FoolWhoFollowsHim...while Mace's examples are hyperbole...his point is vaild...such claims as that simply can not simply be labeled fact and put out of reach of criticism...

 

Wow. So you're claiming that Ronald Reagan didn't have a heavy hand in the fall of communism? I guess that kind of ignorance is what also allows for you to badmouth a good man on the day he died.

 

While Reagan had a hand in the fall of the Soviet Union, its collapse was due to much more internal strife then external.

And while I may not agree with everything he did and a lot of his policies, he was one hell of a President. He has always had my deepest respect in life and it will continue on with his passing.

 

I don't discount Reagan's efforts, but I certainly object to the notion that he got in his X-wing and beat the Evil Empire down all by himself. Either way it is a political opinion. And I'll admit it sounds like he was a character, but I'm not so big a fan of "image politics" (let's face it, he was an actor, and there's a certain degree of putting on a show for most politicians).

Good man? That, my friends, is subjective.

 

Didn't Reagan have more of a role in restarting the cold war after detente rather than ending it? Hence the labelling of the early 80's as the 'second cold war'. Mr Gorbachev had a greater role in winding the war down with his policies of glasnost and perestroika (Openess and economic restructuring if I remember correctly)Gorbi had the sense to pull his country out of a race he couldn't win.

No offence to Mr Reagan, he was in some great movies when he was younger. I guess he was the perfect leader to stand up against the Russian leaders who wouldnt stand down.

 

Alderaan_Viceroy
You think most people listen to Margaret Thatcher these days? [face_lol]

There is a Great Britian today because of Ronald Reagan.

Err, I don't think so. What would have destroyed Britain if Reagan didn't come to power?

Oh, so the whole Germany and Nazi thing didn't happen either huh?

What thing, the fact that Japan attacked you so you decided to come in and claim all the glory for beating the Nazis? Don't kid yourself, Congress would not let the President at the time go to war in Europe: you didn't care about us until you were attacked at Pearl Harbour and so we owe you nothing on that point. (phew about the third time I've type that in a week).

 

A_V: Uh, yeah...

 

It is unfortunate that TripleB has already turned this into a political thread, making it seem as though one can respect Ronald Reagan only if one shares TripleB's pathological hatred for 'liberals'.

Though totally against his politics, I am saddened by Reagan's death. He was a great man, deserving of respect, sadly destroyed by Alzheimers disease.

Alderaan_Viceroy, Margaret Thatcher is hardly the most objective person to make that judgement (even if it meant anything: the Cold War was not 'won' in any discernible sense when the USSR collapsed under its own steam). I venture to suggest that the only thing more incredible than 'British arrogance' is American arrogance, the type that causes TripleB to venerate the view that "America [is] the greatest nation in the world, the most powerfull [sic] force of good that God had ever put upon this world".

As though pursuing a foreign policy based solely on its own interests and propping up countless tyrannical dictatorships across the globe ought to be regarded as 'good'. Half the world now hates your nation, and if they hate Britain too, that comes merely from our being your ally.

 

Alderaan_Viceroy: Your Brit-bashing makes you look as if you had some sort of deep-seated personal resentment against an English person for some reason.

It's also the type of attitude that makes other countries hate Americans. I prefer to be able to go someplace like the UK (beautiful, wonderful country BTW) and be able to tell people that I'm American without being associated with the Americans who think they're better than everyone else.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the proof--newspaper articles, etc.--that the UK was on the verge of no longer being a nation and Reagan prevented them from sinking into the North Sea.

I'm born and raised American and half my male relatives have been in the American military, and I still agree with Branthoris and Darkgloom.

 

How is TripleB's left bashing NOT against the TOS? I very much do NOT appreciate constantly being painted as loony and a hater of America and freedom.



Now then, I'm not a fan of Reagan's at all, but I'm sorry he suffered so, and I'm glad he's at peace. But I'm not going to mourn or pretend I'm sad. (But I'm not happy, either. I'm just blah.)

At any rate, I'd say that the Russian people, Gorbachev and the Pope had more to do with the fall of the USSR, which had been in decline since the 1970s. Reagan may have sped it up a bit, but it was going to fall anyways.

As for Central America, I know a guy from El Salvador. Ask him what HE thinks of Reagan and his cronies.

 

I've spent quite a bit of time in Latin America and that is one thing about Reagan I did not like at all. His meddling really screwed up a lot of people down there and the entire system.

And yes, it is a shame someone has to go out of their way to bash liberals and preach hatred towards a progressive way of thinking. Kind of ironic when he claims by voting democratic you'll support Saddam and Bin Laden when it was the right wing of America that put them in power in the first place. Maybe he needs to study his history.

It's kind of pathetic when people are so brainwashed into believing anything the people in power will tell you.

 

Exactly.

I mean, yeah, I never liked Reagan, but I'm not going to start in on all the details of that RIGHT NOW.

It's a cheap shot.

 

How is TripleB's left bashing NOT against the TOS?

Welcome to TF.N, Guinastasia. Only right-wing bashing is against the TOS.

And that's not a smack on the current mods--it's been that way for a couple of years now.

Now then, I'm not a fan of Reagan's at all, but I'm sorry he suffered so, and I'm glad he's at peace. But I'm not going to mourn or pretend I'm sad.

I'm sad because no one deserves to have Alzheimers, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend I think Reagan was wonderful for America.

Kind of ironic when he claims by voting democratic you'll support Saddam and Bin Laden when it was the right wing of America that put them in power in the first place.

Yeah, and I've been told that being a Green Party member will get you labelled a "terrorist" in some circles. Certainly being anti-Bush will.

I guess I'd better sign off and go attend my How to Be a Terrorist 101 class.

 

I doubt TripleB's left bashing is against the TOS, and in any case it ought not to be, but it's entirely, totally, and utterly inappropriate in a thread such as this.

 

So the fact that Darkbloom, Anakin_girl (you can move to England anytime BTW), and whoever eles hates the USA means I can't love my country? From my point of view without the United States, that U.S.S.R. (that is Russia for you younger Boys and Girls) would have expanded without being checked until it did own all of Europe, including all of England.

Ronald Reagan restored the U.S. into a economic and military powerhouse that was able to bankrupt the Soviet Union (Russia) and end their expansionost threat. We did that despite England and western europe's help, not because of it. Hell they stil b*tch about it today.

The world is safer, and more free because of Ronald Reagan, not the British Empire (Not that it is anymore...). When someone like Darkgloom likes to bash this country, I like to bash back and set the record straight. God Bless The United States, the greatest nation on this earth.

 

Well, as somebody who was actually around in the 80's, and remember's Thatchar and Reagan's relationship very well, I can firmly say that Ronald Reagan WAS a true friend to the UK. And unlike today's relationship between Bush and Blair, the Thatchar/Reagan relationship was much more real and strong, because they were not afraid to disagree from time to time. Infact they had a couple of real hum dingers, over the years. But what united them was always more important than any rows they had.

Reagan DID help to end the Cold War. It probably would have happened anyway, but without a doubt Ronald Reagan helped to speed up the process. Although what Alderaan Viceroy is talking about I have no idea. The Soviet Union was not getting ready to over-run the UK, and no way did Reagan help "save" us! Infact, you could say that Reagan got a lot of his economic idea's from Thatchar, as she came to power in 1979 and Reagan didn't come to power until 1981. They were both of their time. They were what the individual Countries needed at that point in time, and they were what the world needed, too. They were as important as each other, which is why whenever you say one, you always think of the other.

Alderaan, where do you get this idea that everybody in Europe is against the US? Yes there are some people, especially in France and Germany, but we're not all against you, you know. A lot of us have problems with your current President, but we still have great admiration for America and it's people. Really, some of you American's need to get this idea out of your head's, that we're all against you-It's just simply not true. America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia will always have a special place in the hearts of the people of Great Britian. You can't go through what we went through together during the second World War, and not have a special relationship.

 

Do you Brit's have history books written past the 18th century?

 

So the fact that Darkbloom, Anakin_girl (you can move to England anytime BTW), and whoever eles hates the USA means I can't love my country?

One, I'll thank you to stop the personal attacks. They have no place here.

I have just as much right to live in America as you dictatorial "America has the right to run over the rest of the world because we're God" Bush supporters do.

Two, let's get one thing straight: just because I don't think all other countries in the world should bow down to America and kiss our asses doesn't mean I hate America. My father and both grandfathers fought to keep this country free, but they didn't fight so we could be arrogant jerks and bash other countries so that they don't want to get along with us anymore. They also didn't fight so we could go around saying "Nayh nayh, we saved your asses, bow down and worship us."

I would simply prefer that we stop being so bloody arrogant, get the sticks out of our asses, and stop making everyone in the world hate us.

Have you ever considered that since every other country hates us, then maybe the problem is us?

I love America--that's why I want Bush out of office. I'm sick of him making everyone hate us.

I intend to do my part this November in voting his sorry ass out. Of course we didn't vote him in office--we might not be able to vote him out either.

From my point of view without the United States, that U.S.S.R. (that is Russia for you younger Boys and Girls) would have expanded without being checked until it did own all of Europe, including all of England.

Still waiting for the proof that England was on its knees before Reagan took office. As I said, newspaper articles, etc. from 1980. Since you have yet to provide them, I'll assume you are unable to do so.

 

Alderaan, Please read my edit.

I'm not going to get into an arguement with you. Today is the 60th anniversary of D-DAY, when UK and US men fought together and died together for freedom and liberty. I'm going to honor that anniversary and not get into a row with you.

 

With the hope that something will be done (although this is a pro-American message board, and sometimes pro-American in the worst way, so no promises--that's not anything against the mods, that's just how TF.N always has been unfortunately--I feel for the posters of another nationalities who hang out here), I have reported Alderaan_Viceroy's constant personal attacks on British people to a moderator. I think that's the only way to keep things civil in here.

I was offended, and I'm not British.

This is the anniversary of D-Day, and it's also a thread about Reagan's death. Somehow I don't think Reagan himself would want us to use this thread as an excuse to flame people who have always supported us and been on our side, in spite of the way people like Alderaan_Viceroy treat them.

Thank you, G-FETT, for taking the high road. I'm not sure I would be able to be quite so pleasant if I were English.

 

This isn't a thread to rag on anyone's nationality or patriotism. It is a thread to discuss the life and influence of Ronald Reagan.

Further such off-topic posts or commetns will be dealt with.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Reagan was one of the best Presidents we'll ever have.
May he rest in peace.

 

I haven't made up my mind about Reagan yet, but he was one of the most gifted communicators of our time, that much I know for sure.