The death penalty: are you for or against?

Do you consider Russia developed?

Nope!
Isn't it only for treason and espionage?

E_S

 

An "eye for an eye" is a call for fairness, NOT revenge.

Oh and just so you know, I find the death penalty acceptable as punishment, not revenge. Hey, you gotta figure in economics when considering race. It's economics that make people commit crimes as well.

 

What is the purpose of this punishment, FID? An ineffective deterrent? Satisfaction of your anger and aggression?

Do you then, argue that the state (and thus people in general) has a right to decide that someone deserves to die?

Of course, the poor are executed far more often than the wealthy, because the wealthy can afford better lawyers. And yes, economics are also a motivating factor in committing crimes. Are you suggesting that somehow the death penalty will make potential criminals decide to just live in squalid conditions perpetually?

Life is not fair. Get used to it.

"Of course he deserves to die. Many that live deserve death. And many die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment."

 

How can anybody claim to be patriotic while pregnant women and minors can still be executed in their country?

A pregnant woman wouldn't be executed, even if there were laws allowing in. Simply because, think of the time the legal process takes and the amount of time people sentenced to die spend on death row. Even if the woman was pregnant when she was committed the crime, or during the trial, or when she was sentenced, she would no longer be pregnant when the time came to execute her.

And for the record: I believe the death penalty should not be used on minors.

 

I am for capital punishment.

 

I am for it in limited cirsumstance - treason, for example, or mass-murder. Martin Bryant has forfited his right to live; but with 33 dead people to his name I don't think that too far out of the spectrum of "normal" do you?

(Watch as people go "Martin Who?" )

Whilst I'd love to see Child Molestors and Rapists executed, I'm not for punishment as revenge. Thus I would stand against that.

E_S

 

Ender_Sai long time no see.

I agree with you, but rather than execute rapists and child molesters, I have a inventive means of dealing with them that can be summed up in one otomotopiea (sp?):

<snip>

Give them a bris to remember. Castration would certainly stop a rapist.

 

I think that only God can decide to kill somebody.

 

I'm against death penalty in all my earth.
How a humanist can be for it?

 

Heart, not Earth

 

What is the purpose of this punishment, FID? An ineffective deterrent? Satisfaction of your anger and aggression?

Come again? Did you just imply that I'm for it because I'm angry? HA! It's a suitable punishment for the worst offenders. Like that sniper that's been terrorizing my state. Even people in Baltimore county are scared! The death penalty started out as a deterrent to crime. With the mentality that if an aspiring criminal saw someone die then that would make him think twice. It was BS nonsense then and it's BS nonsense now.

Do you then, argue that the state (and thus people in general) has a right to decide that someone deserves to die?

If it is deemed so, then yes.

Of course, the poor are executed far more often than the wealthy, because the wealthy can afford better lawyers.

No, it's not because they can afford 'better' lawyers. It's because of who they are. Their stature in society makes them less likely to be convicted. However if we're talking about drug convictions then anyone can apply there. Look at Robert Downey Jr.


And yes, economics are also a motivating factor in committing crimes.

Not just a motivating factor it's one of the motivating factors. Another could be a rocky childhood. And where do most and I stress most wife-beaters and child-beaters live? Middle to lower-class homes.

Are you suggesting that somehow the death penalty will make potential criminals decide to just live in squalid conditions perpetually?

No, you're putting words in my mouth. And I'd like you to stop it.

Life is not fair. Get used to it.


Actually I can remember about 3 or 5 incidents where I was told that life was fair. However these people looked disheveled and were closet manics.

"Of course he deserves to die. Many that live deserve death. And many die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment."

I think, if you're proven guilty without a hint of doubt and your case depends upon the death penalty then you should be executed.

On a side note in recent years I have changed my stance on the death penalty. As I've seen how sick some murderers are I've grown a little more accepting of the death penalty than I have in the past. Before I was neither for it nor against it. But well you can blame this sick-@$$ society on that.

Oh and I'm not talking using the death penalty for every offense, just major ones that are unforgivable.

 

I think of the death penalty as the same as abortion, unnessesary, for example, if the serial sniper this week is convicted as the Islam and his step-son, i still do not like them for what they've done, but no one deserves a death sentence. If you put another man to death, no caring what the government says, they are a murderer and not any better than the dead man.

 

Death penalty is state-sanctioned killing, and I personally find it cruel and unusual by my personal standards of morality.

 

How is it cruel, and how is it unusual, if I may ask?

 

I assume he thinks it's "cruel" because it takes a life. How taking someone's life is "cruel" when taking their liberty is not, I don't quite understand.

It can only be considered "unusual" because it is used infrequently, and many states have stopped allowing it altogether. However, it has historically been used as a means of punishment in our country and others, so I do not consider it unusual.

 

Kitt: Personally, I believe that everyone, no matter how disgustingly, repulsively evil, given enough time and the right treatment, can be reformed. Naively optimistic, I know.

On the subject of 'how do you know', that is exactly the reason why I don't believe in the death penalty. We don't know if someone can be reformed - we can't look into people's minds - but by killing them, you are denying them any chance of redemption.

I agree with your second point, but for a different reason: If the person is found innocent, he can at least be freed. But you can't bring a dead guy back to life.

As for your first point, I have insufficient knowledge of human psychology to be able to say much, but I do have a more pessimistic view of human nature. Whatever the case, it is irrelevant, as I will explain next.

womberty: I think the basic question here is whether punishment can exist for the sheer purpose of punishment. Do we always have to be interested in "reforming" the criminal? When we pose a fine for an offense, does it necessarily serve to reform the person who committed it? When we do try to reform someone who has committed a crime, is it for the sole purpose of their own improvement, or is it to protect our society from the recurrence of their crime?

Thank you for bring this up. IMO, punishment is not about reforming the criminal. I don't give a damn how the criminal's doing, or whether or not he's learned his lesson - I just want him out of sight and I want his pain and suffering to go out as a lesson to all the other would-be criminals out there. Give them just one more reason, one more example of why they should stay home and read a book instead of going out at night and killing people.

Apparently, the DP doesn't have that effect. Maybe some criminals will never be deterred from crime, no matter how harsh the penalty. But I want to scare as many criminals as possible, so we can have as few crimes as possible.

That's why I advocate (for capital crimes) that the harshest punishment that still fits within the non "cruel and unusual" category be implemented. It appears that life in solitary confinement without parole is that punishment, assuming that prison conditions be worsened and luxeries like gyms, cable TV, libraries, etc. be removed, and the bulk of the money that goes into prisons be used elsewhere (like educating kids about the law, maybe).

 

It appears that life in solitary confinement without parole is that punishment

I suspect a lot of people would still consider that "cruel and unusual" (in the same way they feel the death penalty is cruel and unusual).

 

Jansons - Heya!

You really don't need to even dirty your scissors, just let them loose with "normal" prisoners. They'll met out the justice, PRISON STYLE!

Like, my fellow Aussies, what should happen to "X" and his pack-raping mongrel mentality.

The thing that gets me is that it's not really leaving much room for errors, hence why I'm not for it at all. And, IIRC, the methods used in the US - injection and gassing - cause such extremely unpleaseant deaths, which, if true, it just petty.

I remember seeing Michael Moore's show when the Bush boys were still governors (and he was tallying their scores up. What got me is that people, ostensibly CHRISTIAN people, turned up to cheer the process. That is just sick.

E_S

 

An interesting piece that I heard yesterday:

Maryland Governor Paris Glendening issued a moritorium on executions a while back. In relation to the beltway sniper, he said that he would be willing to grant an exception to the moritorium.

Tell me, what makes that one case so different that it deserves different rules? Or could it be that there are cases where the death penalty is justifiable? Think about it.

Kimball Kinnison

 

I have changed my views on the Death Penalty several times and will no doubt change it again.

I am uneasy with any taking of life and have a deep feeling within myself that no man has the right to take away life - no matter what.

However, I can also understand those who argue that certain types of criminal should pay the ultimate price.

Is there any proof in the States that the presence of the death penalty reduces crime? This is a genuine query before I am accused of being anti-American. How do US crime rates in states with the death penalty compare to those without it or with countries with out the DP?

 

Darth_Asabrush:
I am uneasy with any taking of life and have a deep feeling within myself that no man has the right to take away life - no matter what.

Hmm. I don't subscribe to that kind of thinking - not to say that you're views are stupid or anything. I just think that the "right to kill or not to kill someone" is just plain vague, and there are too many exceptions: soldiers, for example.

And by life you do mean human life, right? Or else I'd be screwed for that fly I killed this morning...

However, I can also understand those who argue that certain types of criminal should pay the ultimate price.

Right. But I wouldn't support the DP out of revenge or hatred or bloodlust, like many people do. I'd support it for its deterrance value. I'd want the punishment that bests gives crimials pause - and since the DP isn't that punishment, I don't like it.

Is there any proof in the States that the presence of the death penalty reduces crime? This is a genuine query before I am accused of being anti-American. How do US crime rates in states with the death penalty compare to those without it or with countries with out the DP?

It's interesting - I've heard statistics that supports and discredits the deterrance value of the DP. Go figure.

 

Cheers Tiori, I'm sure my alter ego will be pleased with your comments. Yes, I did mean human life, although I do get pangs of guilt when I kill spiders and flies (and I can't step on worms or snails - pick em up and put in a safe(r) place in the garden).

Yes, I understand that "the right to kill" is vague. Soldiers are a prime example as I am a supporter the British Military.

I guess I'm just saying that it isn't black and white.

 

I feel guitly when killing flies too, so I usually avoid it.

As to answer your question, I can inform youi that my country, Sweden, doesn't have the DP and we have a lower percent of crime...

 

You can't really link crime rates and the existence of the Death penalty. There's a lot more factors entering the equation, be they on a global or on a local level.

 

Lordban! Now that was a long time ago...Hi!

You're right, but I don't think DP adds anything positive to the number of crimes commited.