The death penalty: are you for or against?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by MASTER_OBI-DAN, Aug 3, 2002.

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  1. Jet-Eye-Blah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2002
    star 3
    Ten Commendments... well, people needs to remember that whatever works in the past does not gurantee it will still works in the present, least of all in the future. Time has changed and so have the society. Ancient laws became obsolete, or needs to adepts. It always make me laugh when I read about the State of Virigina law that is still in effect which requires the husband of any woman driver to run in front of the car and wave a red flag, for the woman to be legally driving.
  2. Luke_Warm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2002
    I'll start off by saying loudly,

    "I oppose the death penalty."

    Like Obi-Dan, I live in Canada, and I'm sure the name David Milgaard means the same to him as it does to me. If Canada had had the death penalty when Milgaard was wrongfully convicted decades ago, an innocent man would have been put to death.

    I do not believe the U.S. legal system, particularly in states such as Texas - where hey, didn't the Supreme Court overturn a sentence last week? - are capable of guaranteeing fair trials. The legal system in the U.S. is not without its flaws. As long as there is a chance, no matter how small, that an innocent indivual might be executed, it should not be used as a means punishment.

    I could argue the religous route to, but I won't.

    I'll go economic.

    For instance,

    A North Caroline study revealed the state spent $2.1 million per trial OVER the costs of non death penalty seeking trials.
    Depending on the state, captial murder trials cost 3 to 6 times what it would cost to keep an inmate in a maximum security prison for the duration of their natural lives.

    Here's a few other facts. I'll cut them direct.

    Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above and beyond what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, according to estimates by the Palm Beach Post. Based on the 44 executions Florida has carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000)

    The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total in incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988). In January 2003, despite a budge deficit, Governor Gray Davis proposed building a new $220 million state of the art death row. (New York times, January 14, 2003)

    Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution. (Miami Herald, July 10, 1988).

    In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).


    Succintly put...

    This is not where I'd want my tax dollars going, I'm sorry. I'd rather have them going towards law enforcement, social programs, education, healthcare. States would be better off without it.

    Actually... I wish half the people who clamour in support of the death penalty would put as much energy into clamouring for education instead.

    And for the record, Texas still has one of the highest (if not the highest), murder rates in the U.S. So it's fair to say the death penalty as a deterrent is an oxymoron.

    There are those in the world who might believe it's an eye for eye', and those who take the 10 Commandments to the literal wire, but I don't see how pumping money into the system does a darn thing to make the U.S. safer or a better place to live. Once you set those aphorisms to the wayside, we're left with little else other than a massive drain on the taxpayers money.





  3. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    Well, here is the thing: If I got busted on First Degree murder of, lets say, gunning down 3 cops; I would MUCH rather get life in prison without parole. I would get TONS of respect in prison and as such, would have a generally good time as I could have, giving that I find a sizable Latino gang to join while in prison, and short of dying in some war of vengeance or at the doings of a Prison Gaurd, I would do better then average prisoners.

    However, if I were up for raping and murdering a 10 year old, for example, I would WANT the death penalty, simply because death at the hands of the state would be clean and painless then the death i would face at the hand's of my fellow prisoners, who are notorious for their murders of pedophiles, which generally involve shoving very long pointed objects up and thru my rectal area.....

    How would you prefer to go out?
  4. ScottAlmighty Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 3
    It's kind of irrelevant, really, I think...

    Death Penaty exists for revenge, and to gain a measure of vengeance for the family's of the victims. That's wrong.

    The justice system's purpose is to remove dangerous people from the "regular societal pool." You can do this just as effectively with life-imprisonment as you can with the Death Penalty, and so, it need not exist.

    Add to that the fact that not all people in jail are guilty, that it costs more money to execute than it does to imprison, that the company of nations we keep by having the death penalty is a company of nations we wouldn't invite to ANY dinner table, and that the government facilitating the vengeful desires of it's scorned citizens only leads to hatred and negetive opinion towards the government, and I'd say you got a pretty good case against the death penalty.

    As for how the CRIMINAL would like to go...if you're guilty, and afraid that you'll get into more trouble being in jail than being dead...kill yourself. And yes, I'm absolutley serious.

  5. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    From CNN.com:

    Citing a 2002 Supreme Court ruling that only juries can impose the death penalty, a federal appeals court Tuesday overturned about 100 death sentences imposed by judges in Arizona, Idaho and Montana.

    What do you think - should judges have the authority to impose the death penalty? (Don't they get to decide penalties in other types of criminal trials, or is that always left up to the jury?)

    Does this new ruling mean that if someone who committed a capital crime is virtually assured of being convicted, they can avoid the death penalty by waiving their right to trial by jury?
  6. DarthLazious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2003
    star 4
  7. MasterKingsama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2003
    star 4
    against it. as a matter of fact, i am against most of the ways we punish people in our present system. Besides there are much better ways to spend a life then by waisting it.
  8. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    George Ryan, who left the job of governor of Illinois under a cloud of corruption, gained international fame by placing a moratorium on the death penalty in the state. It was a bold move for a Republican.

    Basically, Ryan asked the question: is the value of the death penalty for society so high that we can afford to execute even one innocent person by mistake?

    This is a much different question than "does a pedophile rapist/murderer deserve to die?"
    I'm not willing to argue that a serial killer or a cop killer or a gun toting drug lord has any special fundamental right to life, but I am willing to argue that the U.S. should abolish the death penalty in order to ensure it avoids taking innocent lives.
  9. Sam_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
  10. GarthSchmader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2003
    star 4
    Very against. Let gOD do the punishment. Ye without sin may pull the lever, or hit the injection button.
  11. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Against.

    Because the system doesn't work to the extent I'm comfortable with making results permanent.
  12. Sam_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Actually, the first civil law that God gave to man was capital punishment. :)
  13. Molotov Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 1
    That was for being gay, wasn't it? Or was it for adultery?
  14. Sam_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
  15. Molotov Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 1
    Oh yeah...capital punishment for gays and adulterers came later, didn't they

    My mistake :)
  16. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    The death penalty should be mandatory if you're found guilty of murder, rape, and/or child molestation. No questions asked...if you are found guilty by a jury of your peers, you will face the lethal injection. I personally think we should replace the needle with the guillotine, but I'm a "nutty gun cultist", so what do I know? 8-}
  17. darkcide Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Against.Use them as slave labor instead.
  18. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    But then there's a chance that a few of them will escape...

    Just slice off their heads, quick and painless, and there's no chance of them ever getting back on the streets. Hell, you could show it on Pay-Per-View and raise a little extra cash.
  19. MasterKingsama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2003
    star 4
    not if you put the labor camp in the middle of alaska, and surrond it with armed guards. Give them the old you dont work you dont eat, you cross that fence and you will be shot treatment.
  20. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Nice...

    I'd rather see "Made by Prisoners" than "Made in China" on a product anyday.
  21. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    It's not enough just to say "inhuman monsters deserve death." You have to demonstrate that killing them is so important to society that it's ok to accidentally kill innocent people every once in a while, or perhaps fairly often, in order to get rid of the bad guys.

    What if the system executes the wrong guy one in 50 times? One in 20? One in ten?

    It's hard to argue that the system is good because it "saves innocent lives" when at the same time we're certain it is also taking innocent lives.
  22. MasterKingsama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2003
    star 4
    you could even make the whole system self sufficent, prisoners raise, process, and prepeare all food, as well as completing all other necessary duties. If you dont, you get a piece of bread and a glass of water to eat, as well as solitary confinment in a 2x3 cells with a 7 foot cieling.

  23. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    You could even make the whole system self sufficent, prisoners raise, process, and prepeare all food, as well as completing all other necessary duties.

    That would take too much time out of the work day. If they don't want to do hard labor, send them to the "Medical Experimentation" wing. It might just shut the animal-rights activists up.
  24. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    That is uncalled for.

    Medical experimentation on prisoners was highly popular in Nazi Germany.
  25. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Right, but the Nazis made innocent people suffer. In this purely hypothetical situation, only the worst of the worst would suffer such a fate (i.e. rapists, murderers, and child molesters). Wouldn't you say they deserve it?
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