The Demotion of Strilo

Discussion in 'Communications' started by ObiWan506, Nov 9, 2010.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    I should start off by disclosing the obvious: Yes, regular users - even mods - will never know what admins go through. Yes, admins have to make tough choices that are unpopular. Yes, you guys know a lot more about a decision than you?re willing to disclose. Now, I apologize, but I have to be forthright because this doesn?t appear to make any sort of sense. I have to respectfully ask that you help me understand the logic. I?ll hold back what I want to say and reserve most of my judgement until after I hear some type of explanation. I think it?s wise to at least wait for a response before making any sort of rush to action. I would?ve just PMed the administrators for an outright explaination, but I?m not the only one that wants an answer to this. I know I?m coming at you in a rather bold fashion with the entitlement that I deserve some type of explanation. I realize I don?t deserve anything and you guys reserve the right to make decisions, but this is one of those things that?s bigger than me and your decisions. This isn?t one of those things where you make a decision and go, ?Okay, what?s next??

    You do what you feel you have to do, but my word of advice would be to give it to us straight. We can have a much more civil conversation if we can be respectful and transparent. I don?t want to play theater for five pages about how you don?t talk about user bans or demotions or how it?s ?us vs. you?. It?s not a ban and I?m sure the user would waive any confidentially on the situation anyway. I want to be respectful guys, I really do, which is why I?m encouraging you to just get it all out there now and not toy around. Stand by it. If we can get straight to the point we can have a much better conversation, but we?re going to be having a conversation either way, so let?s make it good.

    At Strilo's request, this thread is being locked. The policy issues brought up in this thread are being discussed in MS, and will be announced here in Comms in separate threads.
  2. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    I'd also like to understand what is going on here. For my money Strilo has always been one of the best posters on the boards. I don't frequent the boards that Strilo modded, but I've never seen him do anything that would be worthy of a demotion. You guys may have your own reasons for doing this, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    So basically, what I"m saying is, what the heck?
  3. Eeth-my-Koth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 9
    I miss strilo already.
    We started off on really bad terms.
    I think he threatened to ban me for trolling.
    But over the years getting to know him i realize he was a very fair mod, even if a bit whiny at times.
    Goodbye old friend. RIP
  4. World_Cup_Wally Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2010
    star 4
  5. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    The issue wasn't anything to do with Strilo's modding. Far from it. He's been a great mod and manager for a number of years. But a manager's duties go beyond just the forums that they are assigned to keep track of. These duties also include participation in Mod Squad as necessary and being a cohesive member of the team. The circumstances regarding this decision were based on the latter two, and involved a lengthy discussion among the admins, taking into account many different factors, including concerns voiced by Strilo. In the end, it was a unanimous decision made by all 3 admins and it did not come easily.
  6. Eeth-my-Koth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 9
    IMO he should have received the same 48 hour ban you got.
    And at worst a demotion from manager to moderator.
    He's our most tenured mod. He deserves the benefit of the doubt and a little bit of respect.
  7. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    If all three admins agreed with this, it clearly wasn't as cut and dry as that. Tenure doesn't guarantee immunity from the system, and you're assuming he did not receive said benefit of the doubt and clearly a statement by the Admins here was pre-empted in this case. Give the admins the benefit of the doubt and a little respect, too.
  8. Healer_Leona Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2000
    star 9
    I'm curious as to just what you consider 'a cohesive member of the team'.

  9. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    I view Stirlo as a very good forum moderator. He knows his forum and has given a long, long period of service. On a personal level we've always clashed, but as a former forum mod to another forum mod I've always admired his abilities. For that and for his long period of service we should be truely grateful to him and say a big thank you to him.

    However, I'm afraid there's also Strilo The JC mod. All mods have duties to their forum and then more widely to MS as a group. And I'm afraid this Strilo has been chancing his luck for a very, very long time.

    Anybody remember the Kimball Kinnison fiasco in 2005? Anybody remember the Malkie fiasco 2007? The common denominator is Strilo. Unfortunately he has an incredibly forth-right opinion and whilst I've got no problem with that if its kept within the confines of Mod Squad, when it spills out into public forums and you have mod attacking mod it create's a wider issue for MS and MS cohesivness. Thats when I have a problem with it. Strilo, sadly, didn't know when it was appropriate to speak out publically against his fellow mods and when it wasn't.

    It would have been far better if he'd stepped away from MS on his own accord, because it was always likely to end this way, I'm afraid. I've always been a great believer that a mod has a life span the same as anything else and its much, much better if a mod knows when its time to call it a day, if only to be able to return to the forums, reconnect with the members as a regular member and then maybe come back with a new perspective. It was a course of action I urged senior mods like Strilo to follow, but sadly he didn't and this was always likely to be the outcome.
  10. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Grimby, thanks for the post but it really only expands my confusion. If you had a mod who posted in every poll and thread in MS but never posted in their forum vs. a mod who maintained their forum but didn't post in MS, you'd rather the one that's more involved in MS?  I know who I'd rather. 

    Is there no leeway with that type of thinking?  It cannot be that dogmatic, can it?  "X posts a month in MS or you're out". The focus is on the wrong forum. 

    That is the criteria which we promote mods: their participation in their own forum. MS participation has to be secondary to that. MS-anything has to be secondary to that. This just feels backwards and I urge you to look at it again and reconsider. It's not weakness to say that you made a mistake. 
  11. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Chris... I said this to you when you stepped down... you may not have left us in the best of hands.
  12. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Actually Grimby has done an outstanding job as head admin. Its been one of the smoothest, calmest periods in JC history. This is the first real drama to occur since he took over. That says a lot about just how good the head admin has been.
  13. hudzu Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2003
    star 6
    correlation does not equal causation.
  14. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Didn't Grimby have some involvement with SLG's sudden departure from MS? (I admit am not clear on all the details there)
  15. Im_just_guessing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    star 7
    So you might say this is the biggest mistake he's made since becoming head admin then?
  16. FamousAmos VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 6
    506 is correct - since when is participation in Mod Squad a requirement for remaining a moderator? During my time in MS there were many mods who almost never voiced an opinion in Mod Squad except maybe to vote in polls on issues they had little knowledge of, but moderated their own forums properly. These moderators were never forced out and were never viewed as an issue. That is certainly not the ideal way for the Mod Squad to run and isn't what you'd like to see from a moderator, but to use that as grounds for demotion is asinine. I do not know if this was truly the main consideration involved in Strilo's demotion or not, but if it is it casts major doubt on the decision making abilities of the Admin team currently in place. If it was not the main consideration and there was a legitimate reason for Strilo's demotion, please share it because I think we would all be interested.

  17. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    No, I wouldn't say its a mistake at all.
  18. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Actual participation level was only a small part of the process. Unfortunately, we cannot share the contents of the other factors.

    What I can say is this: this was a very tough decision, and certainly not one I took lightly at all. I have a ton of respect for Strilo and all he's done for the boards over the years, especially in PT. I really wish I didn't feel this was necessary, but after reviewing everything it was the decision I felt had to be made. All three admins were agreed on the decision. I can't speak for exactly how Grimby and LAJ feel because I'm not them, but I can tell you that they took this very seriously as well. This was not a spur of the moment decision by any means. It was discussed at length and we all took it very seriously. I just wish I felt there was a better option.
  19. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    You don't think its got anything to do with the board population lowering and the quality of users evening out during his tenure due to other circumstances like there not being any new Star Wars movies?
  20. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Alright well then. I believe this situation is far different than that of a normal demotion, and as such I'm going to be brutally and painfully honest with my opinions/observations.

    From one perspective, I've already worked along with Strilo in MS, so I'm well acquainted with his stance there. He may not have been an active poster in MS, but as everyone is already aware, the majority of moderators are not. Double standard there? Yes. Strilo is no different than half of MS. You cannot demote him simply for that reason. If you are demoting him for his failure to vote consistently in polls, I believe you usually pm moderators and managers a warning of this when they don't vote for each round? Then I assume all of those other mods who failed to participate in votes were also demoted, as they have been warned the same amount as Strilo was?

    Furthermore, I would like to bring to the table something different. I do not intend to rehash old drama, but I do want this to be considered as far as Grimby's behavior is concerned. Regarding my "stepping down" a couple of years ago - it happened very simply because Grimby demanded that I agree with him on a subject and behave according to his expectations. I complied with his expectations yet simply stated that I disagreed with his opinion, even though I was willing to comply. He told me that I ought to step down. I'm not twisting that story, I'm leaving my personal opinions out of it - that is exactly how that scenario played out. Now let's put a couple of facts together and use that situation to better understand this one. Was Grimby's behavior towards me back then so very different from his behavior towards Strilo regarding this situation?

    I would like to say that being a moderator is not a black and white position. There is no rule for specifically how many posts you are expected to make in MS within a period of time. There is no rule saying that you must agree with the head admin on every situation. You are merely expected to behave within the guidelines and maintain a professional attitude. A good system of moderators SHOULD have disagreement. That is how things get done. You should not let your emotions allow you to make drastic decisions, as that results in unfair solutions.

    Grimby has in the past compared the JC to a work environment to me. I'm going to try that now, because I think it might actually be a good comparison in this situation - whether it be for work, or a team for anything else. If you have an employee or teammate who excels in one area yet is lacking in another, you do not simply fire them. You try to help them. Strilo has excelled as a manager for years, far better than a good deal of the mods we have ever had. I would expect that if he felt he was unable to post in MS, that the head admin would aid him. That is the duty of the head admin. To fix things. And if the head admin cannot fix that, then I'm going to question his capabilities.


    There are several other thoughts I have on this but I would like to hear all three admins thoughts on this first.
  21. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Probably. But even so, decisions still have to be taken, Comms is still a magnet for drama (as we can see) mods will still have personality clashes, etc... and issues will still arise generally.
  22. FamousAmos VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 6
    This is not acceptable, R...J. I understand that you can't divulge every detail of the situation, but the only explanation that you do provide can't be a throwaway excuse that's never been used as a legitimate reason to demote anyone from Mod Squad. And since the Strilo isn't banned, just demoted, I don't see why there can't be a little more disclosure on the part of the administrators.
  23. Im_just_guessing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    star 7
    When in the history of controversies have people tried to cover up the fair and reasonableness of their decisions?
  24. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    I am not understanding why this can't be discussed openly.
  25. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    As far as I can remember its always been admin policy to not comment publically on the "ins and outs" of mod demotions or even the reasons for mods wanting to step down? There is no conspiracy here, just a continuation of Comms tradition.
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