The Demotion of Strilo

Discussion in 'Communications' started by ObiWan506, Nov 9, 2010.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Based on a combination of both Grimby and Strilo's posts, I'm not even sure I see the rationale for a ban in all this.
  2. TahiriVeilaSolo69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 5

    Exactly. This shows that there is a complete breakdown of communication.
  3. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    You would think the reasonable response would be to reserve judgement when not fully informed, not to draw conclusions.
  4. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    So, from what I can read from all of this:

    Grimby knows he's wrong and wants to cover it up
    or
    Grimby has different standards than everyone else
    or
    Grimby can't take criticism

    Doesn't it just make you have such confidence in the admins? :p
  5. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    Sometimes you need to start drawing conclusions to get the facts to come out.
  6. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8

    I motion for a call of NO CONFIDENCE
  7. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    I don't think this is an indication that the entire MS is 'broken'. There are many mods that you've seen in here who are actively voicing their opinions on how all this went down. Many of us have openly disagree with the process and, ultimately, Strilo's demotion. It's important to remember that we can learn and effect change out of situations like this. I hope that even though you may be dissatisfied and frustrated at this point, you realize that there are many mods actively working to help today and in the future to ensure this doesn't happen again.
  8. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    I think it's great to take steps to make it not happen again. Why not start with this one though? Why has the train already passed on this?
  9. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Seems like a rather backwards, illogical way of dealing with a situation to me, and one that very easily leads to false conclusions. You could try asking questions rather than posting accusations and waiting for a defense.

    EDIT: To clarify, I am not taking a side in the matter, just stating that I think its counterproductive to getting answers and the truth certain people profess to be seeking by forcing someone to have to walk down a line of defending against false accusations and misinformed conclusions.
  10. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7

    I do understand and agree with this. I didn't intend that as a "I don't trust MS anymore arg!". I mean it as a....well, Cobranaconda kind of said it better than me.

    I believe that in this situation, it might be more practical for the mods to work alongside with the public to fix this - to an extent. Obviously, Strilo has already been demoted so that's that. There is much more to that situation than the simple fact of his demotion, and the rest needs to be addressed and fixed. I see 3 different parties right now - the admins, MS, and the public. And I'm inclined to think that none of us are really on the same exact page, and we really need to be. Xcore communication is needed.
  11. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    I don't know that it has, Chris. But that's, ultimately, not my decision to make. I'm honestly of the mind that it can be rectified and the issues between the admins and Strilo mediated provided all parties would agree. But that's one opinion here.

    edit - I agree that we need to get on the same page here. I'm pretty much posting the same things in the MS as I am here - with the exception of the mediation...I just came up with that. I just want people to understand that, at least for me, I can see both sides of the issue but I think both sides need to come to a middle ground here and understand the other. It's not cut and dry and this could have been avoided, in whole or part, by more clear communication.
  12. TahiriVeilaSolo69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 5
    Well, ya see, we have been waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. You keep people waiting and then give them vague explanations, you get people drawing their own conclusions. It's calling being a functional human being and using your higher brain power to draw these conclusions.
  13. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I would agree if someone I could genuinely trust was mediating the open discussions.
  14. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Strilo, I am of the feeling that your post is placing blame on Grimby almost entirely, and that just isn't constructive. Grimby has attempted to rationalise his decisions, however your post is demonstrating the concerns that Grimby is levelling. That you're not proving a team player, as you are not attempting to calm the issue and attempting to resolve the situation, instead you are endeavouring to, by your choice of words, to extend the issue. I remind you that in this situation there were three admins who came to the same conclusion, some of which have been admins for some time, certainly before Grimby. Do you seriously believe three admins all no longer appreciated or accepted you?
  15. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I have no way to answer this other than to be direct. LAJ is a good admin but she tends to go along with the flow of what the other admins think. That's just my opinion based on working with her. As for Rogue...Jedi, I do trust him to a certain extent to be a good admin, I just think this situation has gotten far beyond his control. And both of them answer to Grimby.

    EDIT: Also, Sinrebirth, I did not use the words "appreciate" or "accepted" at all. You did. So the answer to that is no I do not feel I was not appreciated or accepted by all three admins. That's why I did not say that.
  16. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    We still haven't heard from the other two admins what their decision was based on. Also, Strilo said he told them both that Grimby's assessment wasn't entirely true and thus would be glad to furnish them any evidence which they required. LAJ didn't take him up on it, Rogue only made cursory inquiries, from what I bothered to read.

    If they came to the conclusion based nearly solely on Grimby's accusations, is it valid?
  17. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7

    So far Strilo is the only one who has actually listed a series of events and facts that has effectively explained the events that transpired. If the truth of the matter is that Grimby is to blame, then yes you are correct - it will come across that he is to blame. Your manner of talk is implying that the blame could not possibly be on Grimby, therefore the explanation is not constructive. Would you like to explain what your version of "constructive" is?
  18. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    There are so many things wrong with this. First off, yes, it would appear that this is an issue between Grimby and Strilo. What's controversial about that? Secondly, yes, Grimby as been rationalizing. That's not a good thing. That means he's explaining away issues. I also don't think you understand how situations like this come to be resolved. Yes, he is extending the issue. But that's clearly because he feels the issue has not been fairly represented. And that's his right. Is he supposed to come in here, see that Grimby has posted something he feels does not reflect the situation accurately and then just shrug his shoulders and say "Well shucks, that doesn't seem quite right to me, but the Head Admin is spoken, so I guess I'll be quiet"? Is he supposed to just toe the line? Because that's not a constructive way to deal with this. Neither is the way that Grimby and the other admins have been dealing with this. So far the most constructive post by one of the principles in this issue has been Strilo's.
  19. Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    And again I feel it needs to be pointed out that this was a decision made by ALL of the admins, so it is unfair to have a witch-hunt against only 1 of the 3 people who made the decision. Not that I am endorsing a witch hunt of the entire Admin team, but I do think people need to comprehend that Grimby was not acting alone in his decision.
  20. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    You missed the :p You know, what I usually do when I'm making light of a situation... :p
  21. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Cobra, I appreciate that, but I have little doubt that the other two admins will comment.

    And they didn't come up with their conclusion based nearly solely on Grimby's accusations.

    Because, Strilo, Grimby doesn't just have the other admins answer to him. He answers to the Mod Squad, too.

    My version of 'constructive' is the truth. My truth. That I, and other Moderators, I imagine, complained about, to the admins. That Strilo had not changed but the Mod Squad had. Strilo made me, a fellow Mod, feel roughly the size of a gnat, whenever I disagreed with him. Which is unacceptable. He was not a cohesive member of the squad. He made Moderators afraid to post, because their opinions would be belittled, and their opinion would not matter because of this.

    Are you calling that constructive? Are you calling the decision of three admins, based on his track record - which Strilo is acknowledging had its up and downs - victimisation, with more information? So, you can't blame just Grimby. You may as well blame me. And any other Mods who have this same opinion...

    ...that's of course assuming said Moderators are not going to be worried about airing their opinions when some here are giving me the impression that a 'pro-Grimby' stance will result in a lynching. Assuming some of them have not already left the boards, that is. It's not fair to throw everything on Grimby. We can't speak for LAJ and Rogue. I certainly can't. But if you want a bit of my truth, you're welcome to it.
  22. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    seems like Grimby's dislike of Strilo's behaviour has festered for some time without the absolute seriousness of the situation being directly communicated. it seems like a breaking point has been reached, evidenced by the facts we already know: becoming aggrieved over something that isn't an issue at all (Strilo's post in the VIPs thread), flaming over PM, reacting unprofessionally and banning oneself ridiculously. and yet, in this heated and highly emotional state (never the right time to make a decision such as this -- isn't that what the ban is for? to "cool down"?) deciding to wield what power is left and just... remove the problem. probably because there's a sense of embarrassment that he's allowed himself to get to that state in the first place. the two other administrators are culpable in that they haven't stood up against what was obviously a poorly thought out and non-reasoned request ("it's either Strilo or me!"). if we're going to give absolute power to a head admin, then we certainly need two fellow administrators who can stand up and reason against whoever is the holder of that post. checks and balances.

    Strilo sounds like he's acted like a bit of a **** for a long time, and perhaps he should have been more wary of the line he was treading. there was almost certainly a stubborn point of no return where he'd lost all respect for the administration and most likely acted uncooperatively. but ultimately that is irrelevent in the context of this discussion. the circumstances surrounding his dismissal and the way it has been handled are poor. it sounds like fair warning was not given and that the head admin has let a lot of built up grief, most likely all reasonable and justified, explode into some very poor decision making. not the behaviour that is expected or required, despite the demands of the job. a head admin should be able to discuss things reasonably, and communicate with his mods at all times. he should EARN respect through his actions and his ability to reason and see things from different perspectives; it should not be demanded because of the position or an expectation to tow the line. certainly he should keep a clear head at all times, and that doesn't appear to the case at all, certainly not in the last week.
  23. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Just to say that RJ and LAJ are currently offline. They are not ignoring the thread.
  24. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    I just want to take a moment to point out how incredibly wrong headed this is. You clearly don't have a grasp of the concepts "constructive" or "truth". This is exactly the kind of close-mindedness myself and others have been afraid of.
  25. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Sinrebirth, I don't want to reply to your post extensively because I don't want this to get off topic. I just want to say that the post you just made is a bit unsettling to hear.
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