The development of Anakin's theme in Episode II

I think it's safe to say that there was no devotement of Anakin's theme in Clones. Just small bits of Vader's theme and small bits of Anakin's. Though there is variations of Ani's theme in Menace. We hear all these little hits of the Imperial March in his suite, but in Clones the notion is dropped completely. So if there's no further expansion, who's fault do you think it is, Williams' or Lucas'?

 

I'm personally slightly glad Anakin's Theme wasn't used extensively in AOTC. Why? Because I think Anakin's Theme represents the childish and naive side of Anakin from TPM.

Look at the end of the End Credits for an example. At the very end of the track, Anakin's Theme, Across the Stars and the Imperial March are played in quick succession. I believe this is a scaled-down musical interpretation of Anakin's life.

Anakin's Theme from TPM suggests Anakin before Padme, before his rebellious attitude and suggests the child side of Anakin.

Across the Stars is the second phase of Anakin's life. His love with Padme not only has questioned his loyalty to the Jedi order, but finally causes him to defiantly depart from The Code and marry Padme. It exemplifies his rebellious side brought on by his love to Padme and even his nearness to turning away from The Jedi Order.

Finally, the Imperial March is obviously the third phase of Anakin's life. He has now completely turned to the Dark Side; he has turned away from his childish naive years and followed the path of his rebellious years to the Dark Side. It shows his pure evil.


So, anyways, I believe Anakin's Theme isn't all that appropriate in AOTC (except in that scene when he first meets Padme and the childish feelings of puppy love that he felt for her all those years ago return).


Oh well, just my two cents.

 

Speaking of Episode III, I wouldn't mind a theme that crosses Anakin's Theme with The Imperial March, to kind of show he went from a kind young boy to an evil sith lord

 

All great points Sithman. I wonder if there?ll be any new themes in Episode III.

"I wouldn't mind a theme that crosses Anakin's Theme with The Imperial March"


Anakin?s theme already does, really.

The concert piece of Anakin?s theme has plenty hints of the Imperial March near the end.

The aspect of Ani and Vader?s theme intertwining over each other -- which was touched on in Anakin?s suite -- could have been a sneaky thematic device that the audience wouldn't even pick up on during Episode II.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Anakin's theme is used in small hints on the Attack of the Clones score. Nothing to the point of the theme that was in The Phantom Menace, but I'm pretty positive I heard hints of the theme.

And Sithman's thoughts pretty much sum mine up, although I'm going to say that Anakin always had a bit of the rebellious attitude in The Phantom Menace.

Dudging along the lines of off-topicness, in Episode III, I would like to hear a small piece where all three of the themes solidly fit together; easily noticeable. I won't drag the line of Episode III anymore, though.

Still, I feel that the way the score flowed in AotC was rather well, and the progression from the original Anakin's theme to "Across the Stars" to the "Imperial March" was a rather nice blend, as well as the confession to Padme with the "Emperor's Theme" tossed in. That part always gives me the chills

 

I really looked forward to the merging of Anakin's theme and the Imperial March before AOTC came out. That didn't happen. On the one hand, I can see the logic behind Sithman's defense; however, I do not think it capitalizes on the maximum effect.

Lucas intentionally showed a young Anakin to give us a full view of a person who gradually falls to the dark side. There are periods in his life no doubt, but he is the same person. The most notable use of Anakin's theme in AOTC is when Anakin desperately tells Padme that he must go to Tatooine; no Imperial march hint at all. The first use of the Imperial March with Anakin is after his confession to Padme about the slaughter; no Anakin's theme. There is no merging at all.

While my hopes for a further development of Anakin's theme into the Imperial March may have been too lofty, it seems to me that a perfect oppurtunity for a straight going from Anakin's theme to the Imperial March was missed on both of these occassions. I'm not talking about changing Anakin's theme; rather, just use it similar to how the concert suite works in TPM. The image of Anakin talking about fixing things with Anakin's theme, then merging into the Imperial March when the confession becomes much more painful would have been a drop dead powerhouse.

Again, this is not so much development of Anakin's theme as straight utilizing it. It provides two advantages. One, that it is musically more satisfying. And two, because the transition of a theme to another naturally suggests the shift within a personality. DLM once posted a great thread about battle of the motifs, and this was clearly a lost oppurtunity in AOTC. I don't dislike the current versions, but I feel slightly disappointed.

 

Well said, bright sith. The idea you brought up for the confession scene is excellent. When Anakin says, "I'm good at fixing things, you know. Always was" it's very reminiscent of the nine-year-old Anakin of TPM. A clever use of Anakin's theme here could have heightened the effect of the already great scene.

 

While the concept of using Anakin's Theme when Anakin said "I'm good at fixing things", the theme itself in that instance really wouldn't fit the mood.

It's not the idea that's bad -the idea is great- but because of the way the theme sounds, it would be a wee bit upbeat for such a dark scene.

Oh well, just my opinion.

 

Sorry maybe I don't pay attention but what is Anakin's theme? I don't have TPM soundtrack but I can get it on Kazaa, what is it exactly?

 

All wonderful comments guys.


I tend to agree with Sithman that using Anakin?s theme during the confession scene wouldn?t quite fit the mood. Although, if Anakin?s theme would have a very creepy rendition than might have worked. After all, this is John Williams were talking about.

The confession cue is so great. During the "I'm good at fixing things..." line I love how if sounds just like the A New Hope line when Luke says, "I can?t get involved." "I've got work to do."

 

brightsith, you took the words right out of my mouth. Especially after hearing IM hints in the structure of Anakin's theme itself, I was looking forward to a more "merged" kind of developement in AOTC. I'm not unhappy with the AOTC score -- I love it, when looking away from the awful edits in the final film -- but my enthusiasm was honestly dimmed when I found less musical allegory than I had expected.

 

What the hell is Anakin's theme??

 

Track #3 on the Original Phantom Menace Soundtrack.

 

Tried humming it, but it didn't come through in the post. Pick up the TPM score.

Just to clarify a few things:

Anakin's theme is used in AOTC when Padme and Anakin first meet in her quarters. There it is absolutely appropriate as a reminder of the previous story and how they met. That moment, however, is cut out in the Imax version.

When Anakin tells Padme about his dream and about saving his mother, we do hear his theme... BUT it is reused music from TPM (not newly recorded for AOTC but the actual recording from TPM for little Anakin at the Jedi council). The scene was intended to not have any music and IMO it would have been much more effective to go to that dissolve of Anakin standing back-to-camera and have dead silence instead of tracked music from Shmi's funeral which then leads into the TPM music.

The end of the end credits of AOTC combines the love theme, Anakin's theme, and Imperial March, but this was not used in the movie, only on the soundtrack. The movie uses TPM for the first part of the end credits and then the concert version of the love theme. The soundtrack CD has the end credits Williams wrote, but which Lucas tossed.

 

So, has anyone looked at the harmonic structures of Anakin's theme and ATS? Or, to go a little deeper, the form of both pieces (by form, i do mean in the classical sense, but also in the ways which they are altered).

I too agree that it seems like Williams dropped the ball on some great thematic transitions, which seems unlike him. So, either he not doing any (boo!), he is holding off completely for EPIII to do the transitions there, or some of the development is in AOTC, but it is just burried a little deeper....thus the reason for my first question.

then again, if you look at the ways the themes developed for the OT, it was mostly just creating new themes that had elemets of the old (e.g. major 6th leap in Leia and then in Han and Leia's theme). then he uses these themes to anchor the score and alters them for creating pacing and atmosphere. Is that really all that different from what we have seen?

in TPM, anakins theme is throughout, being altered. The theme itself has elements of IM at the end, as well as the top leap of a 5th on the first run remeniscent of the 5th in Luke's theme.

now in AOTC, we mostly see the love theme (with a minor 6th vs the major 6th in OT love, etc.) having the ties and altered throughout. So, I guess if we were expecting measure by measure transitions of themes (which I know I was), it may have been unrealistic to expect that, as it was inconsistant with the OT.

but, these are just non-researched thoughts...can anyone think of times in the OT where themes grew out of each other, and weren't simply toggled back and forth? The closest I can think are some of the IM playing done in jedi, but I wouldn't classify that as genuine Wagnerian transitioning...

 

I like how Anakin's theme appears in the very last part of the end credits. It's as if Williams is saying "These are the last shreds of the little boy we met in TPM. They are blowing away in the wind, never to return." At least that's what I got out of it. There were parts of that little boy in this movie, particularly in the first two scenes we see Anakin in. But as the movie progresses and ends, that little boy has been burned away forever by the passions of love, the scars of battle and the hints of darkness which enter into him. It's a very poignant placement for his theme, musically.

 

"...can anyone think of times in the OT where themes grew out of each other, and weren't simply toggled back and forth?"


Hmmm, well there is a moment in the Death Star trench in Hope where The Force/Ben?s Theme was slightly elongated.

The beginning piece of the theme is repeated with a different section of the brass. This then paused and ended the first part of the theme in the same fashion.

 

I had some thoughts about what TenorApprentice said.

I listened a bit to the OT scores again, and I don't hear anything like one theme being developed to the point that it becomes another theme. I'm not all that familiar with the typical Wagnerian approach to this, but it seems that there just isn't the focus on music in the movies to support that kind of development, the way it is in opera.

Regarding Anakin's theme and the love theme, the only real connection I hear between them is a loose one: the end of the first phrase of each is a descending triplet followed by two more notes. Not easy to explain without notation, but hopefully you know what I mean. This also connects these themes to Luke's theme (I think this connection is actually strongest between the Love theme and Luke's theme). Also, this figure in the Love theme is developed on its own, most notably in the Finale sequence, interspersed with Vader's theme.

Harmonically and formally, the two themes (Anakin & Love thms) don't seem especially related. Anakin's theme uses a lot more chromaticism, both melodically and harmonically.

Back to the first point: I think that JW presents different themes independently, but does exploit the connections that exist between them. Another example of this is some of the music I think during Anakin's interview with the council in TPM. We hear both Anakin's theme and the Force theme, but sometimes we hear just the first 3 notes, which are the same in both themes (ascending a fourth, then a whole step).

NW

 

You can hear a little snippet of it at the end of "Confrontation with Dooku and Finale." Hearing it almost makes me cry though. I don't know why.

 

i can so see across the stars being played quickly, worridly, then merging into a solid, pounding imperial march....

*shudders*

oh the wonderfullness

 

I think it's a shame that his theme from episode1 didn't become an heroic cross between that and the imperial march. It's not hard to imagine. Just think of the episode 1 theme with trumpets and played faster without the ominous nature of the imperial march. That would have played well during his heroics in the speeder chase and the droid factory. I'm not sure but I think there was an example of this in the TPM game, which was scored from unused cues from the film.

 

^^^
I still think there may be a good opportunity to develop Anakin's Theme this way in Ep. III.

 

Good Read, guys!

NW, good pick up on the ending connections with the triplets...

 

Yeah, I think it could be transformed slightly with the IM notes more dominant this time, used for cues when his name is still Anakin.

 

RE: the 11/20/02 TenorApprentice post, great distinction. Need to listen to OT scores again now to rethink.