The development of Kyp Durron (Rebirth Spoilers)

I'm with jedi-jeff and A Smuggler's Spin on this one. Kyp had good intentions, but his methods were wrong. He manipulated the situation to where he made the decision to attack the world ship.

However, no matter what any of us thinks, it will be interesting to see how the situation is treated in future books! Can't wait for SbS.

Also, about Dark Journey, I seemed to have read Kyp will be in that one, but I could have misunderstood. I'm not trying to start a rumor. I apologize for any confusion.

 

<<<Um, I answered that in a fairly lengthy post right above yours.>>>

Sorry, I DID read that and then I promptly forgot about it. The transmission things sounds alright, but that's is essentially what Kyp did with Sernpidal but in a spoken form. Both tell the Vong that the 'infidels' won't just sit back and allow the Vong to move in. I don't think a mass transmission is neccesary at this point but Luke might so I guess I'm ok with it.

 

Bogga-

Exactly. It's all a question of semantics in the end. the Jedi need to make sure that the Vong completely understand that this is their last chance, and if they don't leave, well, the Jedi will be forced into taking action, because it will mean they have no other options.

Also, this thread is over 100 posts! Woooo!

JMA

 

this is realy a mattter of opinion as with all kyp threads though ihave not red the book yet i shall resereve futher judgement latter
but i will probale agree jedi master aaron and those thoughts alike.
but all kyps actions just realy renforce your opinion of him you already have.
he should of told the thruth to begin with. ihave never liked the kyp durron character, however he had great potentiel as a character to bad the wrighters buthered him.

 

Jedi_Cryix...
"We do not know how the jedi of old acted in wars. There has not been much written about the jedi's role in wars."

Correction - we do know how they operated. They helped the Old Republic commit genocide against the Sith during the Fall of the Sith Empire. They sanctioned Nomi Sunrider embracing anger and the Dark Side when she raped Ulic of the Force by bestowing upon her elder Jedi statesman status. They embraced inaction when Ulic had been mugged by the Dark Side. Namely, the old Jedi acted no different than either Kyp or Luke are acting now.

 

Ghengis do you ever have anything positive to say? Even your priase sounds likeits filled with anger and bitterness, anyhoo.

I'd just like to point out I don't think Kyp had good intentions at all. He was all about Kyp. How can Kyp feel better about himself? How can Kyp show the galaxy he is worthy of thier praise? The fact that he did it against the Vong is secondary. Before that he was destroying what he percieved as pirates.

His whole agenda is to show that he is a worthy person. If the Vong weren't around, he'd find something else to beat up on. He's a bully.

 

A Smuggler's Spin...
"Ghengis do you ever have anything positive to say? Even your priase sounds likeits filled with anger and bitterness, anyhoo."

Just pointing out "reality" unmolested by emotion. Often, it's a cold, unforgiving reality, as in the case of the Jedi dropping the ball with one of their own, Ulic or their complicity in hunting down an entire species, or the hard-luck story of Kyp Durron. But, that's life.

And, on the contrary, there is much that is positive to talk about - the Star Wars Adventure Journal, Star Wars Gamer magazine, the fun of Marvel, Troy Dennings' prior (and upcoming) Star Wars accomplishments ...

 

Um, JediMasterAaron, what do you do after the Vong ignore your warning. Is it ok to fight and attack then or should you say, "Ok, I'll give you one more chance. Either leave in peace now or.....or......or.....ummmmmm."

And as for that comment somebody made about us justifying Kyp's actions and not defending morals. Kyp's morals are not bad because what he is doing is what needs to be done in order to preserve the galaxy. It is not wrong to fight back against an extragalactic invasion force bent on the extermination of your galaxy. It's right and it's hard to do and only the bravest person, who cares about saving other people's lives more than his own life can even manage to think about doing it. If one ever shows up here I hope are special forces won't think twice about fighting back. If people in the GFFA think like you do they have no chance of surviving and they probably don't deserve to. Evolution never created a species that wouldn't rather attack and survive than be a pacifist and die as an extragalactic invasion force kills you. That just wouldn't work. War like this is survival of the fittest, which means they betetr start fighting back whether or not they think of themselves as above fighting and attacking someone who literally wants to kill them.

 

As I have said, the Yuuzhan Vong have illegally invaded the GFFA, broken every treaty along the way, slain w/o cause an emissary who was the best friend of a Jedi Master, and attempted wholesale genocide. I don't see how any of you can say that the Jedi need to warn them- the Vong came into their space and are overruning the Jedi's galaxy. Why do the Vong need a warning? Do you need to declare your right to self-defence? Adn yes, self-defense includes ousting the Vong from territory they have already stolen. As for kyp's manipulation, Jedi have long been the guardian's of teh galaxy, and whether it is a mind trick of Kyp's deception, they do all they do for the greater good.

 

just to add to jarik's post...


jma, what exactly is the difference between justifying action and defending the morality of said action? none, it just sounds like a nice little derogatory statement towards kyp-ites. We defend, we justify, past precedence concurs with us, even the movies. nen yim's ship should've stayed home if it couldn't keep up with the joneses(or is that solos or skywalkers in the gffa?)

 

"Um, JediMasterAaron, what do you do after the Vong ignore your warning. Is it ok to fight and attack then or should you say, "Ok, I'll give you one more chance. Either leave in peace now or.....or......or.....ummmmmm." "

Actually Jarik, I explained that fairly well. Although it is purely a matter of semantics, it is a Jedi's duty to make sure the enemy understands that if he doesn't leave, there are going to be repercussions. I said that even though it's 100% guaranteed that the Vong will refuse the warning, it's still the Jedi's job to do it. Why? Because then they've done all they can to try to find a way other than violence. If they refuse this warning, violence is the last resort, and the Jedi can attack without any fear of the Dark Side, because they gave the Vong the official chance to end it peacefully. It's semantics, but it's what the Jedi need to do. Refer to my example from I, Jedi (If you have the book) for why. I don't have it with me at this second, but Luke explains it fairly well, and it's exactly the same situation. The Jedi are being the aggressors, breaking into an Imperial compound to rescue Mirax, and it's not of the Dark Side because they give the Stormtroopers every chance to leave peacefully, with an official warning.

JMA

 

Just a side note, but I really need to reread I, Jedi because I don't remember ANY of that. Man it's been a while.

 

Luke doesn't take out a bullhorn every time he's about to attack the Empire or some other warlord and warn them or ask if they would like to leave now before attacking.

And I believed he did so in I Jedi more to save time: easier if they surrender than to actually play semantics and avoid the darkside. After all he doesn't do that every time before attacking. Did you notice Yoda, Qui-Gon, Windu, Obi-Wan or anybody give Maul a warning. No, and what did they need to: he was invading Naboo. He knew it was wrong and illegal, he didn't need a warning.

That's like if somebody was robbing a bank and a cop walked in and gave him a warning before enforcing the laws.

 

It's at the very end. Luke and Corran are strapping on their lightsabers, and Corran asks them if because they are attacking, is it of the Dark Side, and how can they avoid making it of the Dark Side. Luke basically says "Warn them first. Give them every opportunity to leave peacefully, and then if they don't, do what you have to do, because our cause in just." Great book, I, Jedi. Corran Horn has always been one of my favorite characters.

JMA

Also, just to let you guys know, I think this post has been some of the most stimulating conversation I've had on here. Thanks for it!

JMA-yet again

 

"That's like if somebody was robbing a bank and a cop walked in and gave him a warning before enforcing the laws."

Except if the cop were to shoot him without warning him at all, he couldn't go on a mad rampage and enslave the galaxy like the Jedi have the potential of doing.

JMA

EDIT:

"After all he doesn't do that every time before attacking. Did you notice Yoda, Qui-Gon, Windu, Obi-Wan or anybody give Maul a warning. "

No, but they didn't attack either. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan merely stood in Maul's way. They did not make a move to attack the beginning. Maul began shedding the robes first, maul drew his saber first, maul ignited it first, and Maul made the first move to attack. The Jedi were defending all the way. Not once did Qui-Gon make an aggressive move.

JMA

 

"the Jedi have the potential of doing."

Key word: potential, just cause they have the potential of enslaving the galaxy doesn't mean they will. They seem to have no interest in doing so. The Vong, however, admittedly want to enslave part of the galaxy and destroy the other part. Kyp is fighting against these people who wish to enslave the galaxy.

"and Maul made the first move to attack."

Actually Qui-Gon made the first attack at the end in the hangar when the Gungans were the diversion, not Maul. There was a whole controveresy over this. And Obi-Wan was right behind him. And no warning. In fact not a word passed between Maul and the Jedi except possibly after Qui-Gon died (might be confusing with game) and that's only Maul taunting Obi-Wan.

 

You can't lock somebody up, or take away rights or privliges just cause they have the potential to do something wrong. THAT IS IMMORAL, if we want to make such a fuss about morals. It's also unconstitutional and illegal in my country, The United States of America.

 

"Actually Qui-Gon made the first attack at the end in the hangar when the Gungans were the diversion, not Maul. "

I've watched the ending to Episode 1 countless times. Maul swings his saber, doing a flip towards the jedi, after igniting his saber. He attacked first in the hangar. Qui Gon never moved a muscle, except to light his saber, until Maul did that.

JMA

 

Oh, well then I guess everyone in the Episode 1 forums were wrong. Or maybe I misunderstood somehow. Let's just ignore that particular point then.

You can't lock somebody up, or take away rights or privliges just cause they have the potential to do something wrong. THAT IS IMMORAL, if we want to make such a fuss about morals. It's also unconstitutional and illegal in my country, The United States of America.

 

Yeah, I know, I live in the United States too, and no, you can't lock someone up just for having potential to cause destruction. But your analogy of the cop wasn't entirely accurate, because cops do warn offenders with things like "Drop your weapon!" and "Put your hands in the air". Kyp's morals don't just come into play with the Vong though, and I don't want to isolate it to that. He was having issues with this type of stuff clear back in Vector Prime, when he was actively hunting down smugglers. It's aggression on his part, with no valid reason. I just feel the Vong bring it out even more in him.

JMA

 

"Oh, well then I guess everyone in the Episode 1 forums were wrong. Or maybe I misunderstood somehow. Let's just ignore that particular point then."

Surely there wasn't 100% agreement that Qui-Gon attacked. If there was, then it's a first on any type of discussion forum in history.

Also, I kinda get the feeling that this is starting to turn a bit hostile, and that's not my intention at all. I'm just trying to present counterpoints to your points, and defend what my personal belief on the subject is in a constructive way. This has been great conversation so far, don't let it degenerate.

JMA

 

Smuggling is illegal, though that was probably going a little too far. However, their is a difference. Smugglers don't attempt to hurt people. The Vong are trying to eradiate the known galaxy and the unknown galaxy and maybe even other galaxies and that rquires a more active defense, which includes an offense, which means attacking Vong held planets (taken from the rightful inhabitants and the NR by force) with armed force because they're not exactly giving them back.

 

All excellent points on your part, I just don't agree with them. As sad as it is to say, I think this argument is quickly approaching the "You think you're right, I think I'm right, and neither of us is going to change." stage. Been GREAT conversation though.

JMA

 

"Surely there wasn't 100% agreement that Qui-Gon attacked. If there was, then it's a first on any type of discussion forum in history."

Eerybody agreed he attacked. The debate was whether or not it was right.


I'm sorry if I seem hostile. I don't mean to be. I love a good debate. I'm just a little tired and it's been a long day. I've also been a main player in this debate for many months, debating against many different other people. I've always been involved in it. My oppenent in the different threads has changed, but it's just been a long time and maybe I'm starting to get snippish. I apologize. Let's try to get back to the debate and be civil.

"Been GREAT conversation though."

Sure has been and I apologize again if I seemed to be hostile and I apologize in advance if it happens again. I don't mean to be. So, we'll see what happens then in the future books I guess. Myabe it'll prove one of us right and maybe it'll remain in the gray area. Who knows. we'll see later.

 

"Been GREAT conversation though."

Sure has been and I apologize again if I seemed to be hostile and I apologize in advance if it happens again. I don't mean to be. So, we'll see what happens then in the future books I guess. Myabe it'll prove one of us right and maybe it'll remain in the gray area. Who knows. we'll see later.