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TFA TLJ The Development of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Artoo-Dion , Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Tanjint

    Tanjint Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Let me reiterate I like the sequel trilogy a whole lot so far and continue to have high hopes for it but I also have gripes and enjoy the backlash discussion.

    So there's been a campaign of establishmentarians who really really want us to know that Lucas developed most of the relevant concepts of TFA and they're factually backed up and all that and I appreciate that BUT what we don't know is why Lucas continued to give sad comments around TFA's release. Most could be dismissed to the "seeing your ex wife make out with someone else" explanation we often get from people but there remains one Lucas comment that if it is addressed in this or the reddit thread I would love to be directed to it, that comment being and I'm paraphrasing, "Disney did a great job, but for me this was a story about a family. A family saga" or something like that.

    I will agree with the moderator original poster in this thread that he has proven that most key elements from TFA were developed with Lucas but I would love to ask OP and anyone else evangelizing this Reddit thread what they think Lucas meant by that?

    I was clueless after TFA what he could have meant, but now that TLJ has been released I think the simplest explanation would be that he wanted Rey to be related to someone and Disney/JJ/someone refused but I would love to hear if anyone else has something more reported to back up other interesting speculation about Lucas' comment about his vision being more of a family story than what the ST became?

    -T
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  2. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Woefully whimsical Whill of New Films star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Re: Luke's sacrifice.
    The idea of Luke becoming a symbol seems to have been in the mix during TFA's development, too. At least, Obi-Wan's sacrifice in ANH was something that Rick Carter felt to be very important to the saga.

    “Ultimately, for Obi-Wan Kenobi, halfway through Star Wars, to realize that if he sacrifices himself and makes his own death of his making as much as the person who’s causing his death, he’s making himself more powerful than anybody can imagine. And it’s witnessed by a third person, that young man. It’s been in front of everybody for all these years. But you don’t see Obi-Wan Kenobi everywhere. You see Darth Vader, you see Yoda, and you see Luke. But Obi-Wan’s the one who made it all happen.” - Rick Carter, The Art of The Force Awakens.

    And then, moving on to this film, RJ on the 'Broom Boy' ending:

    "To me, it was really important to have that final scene, because it turns what Luke did from an act that saves 20 people into an act that inspires the galaxy," Johnson continued. "The notion that what we're setting up here is something big in the next chapter. And when Leia says, 'we have everything we need,' she's talking about everyone on the Falcon, but also about what we see next, which is we now have a galaxy that has seen this beacon of hope and is getting inspired to fight the good fight."

    So whereas Obi-Wan's sacrifice becomes a symbol that inspires Luke, the Galaxy's 'new hope', Luke becomes a symbol of hope for the galaxy itself. At least, that seems to be the idea that will lead into IX.
     
  3. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    The basic way is seen in TPM. The symbiont circle on Naboo between the Naboo and Gungans isn't broken but isn't fully working either. The Sith get the Trade Federation to invade first taking over the Naboo. The Gungans wait around thinking it won't effect them but it does. The cycle of life is being broken and all they knew will be gone. Only by working together to mutual advantage (like the midi-chlorians) can they overcome. This is the larger story of Star Wars. Selflessness vs selfishness, sacrifice vs greed, love vs hatred, peace vs chaos.

    That is the balance of the Force. In the larger galaxy the Sith do a similar thing with the Clone Wars.

    What is going on in the ST is darkness rising but in an evident way. The Jedi Order wouldn't be compromised because they would be fighting the Dark side not feeding it as they did in TCW because they were fighting a fake war that was controlled by the same person on both sides.

    Because one is a Jedi prophecy and the other is Snoke's. As I said before the way I would tie things together right now is that we find out that Snoke was the Jedi who made the prophecy in the first place which would explain why he was waiting around for thousands of years until it was fulfilled. It also explains his fascination with Vader over Sidious and why he wants a new Vader so much. Only one of the Skywalker line can set events in motion to unbalance what they balanced. So the solution to one became the problem to the other.

    Now it's the Skywalkers that need to end not the Jedi or rather Ben who is on the Dark side 9for whatever reason.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/03/daisy-ridley-says-j-j-abrams-wrote-story-drafts-for-star-wars-episodes-viii-ix

    "A common criticism of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy thus far is that there doesn’t seem to be an overall plan put in place by Lucasfilm for a clear narrative arc. But in a new interview, Daisy Ridley reveals that the opposite is true, and that J. J. Abrams came up with a general plan for the story of The Last Jedi and Episode IX – although Johnson would ultimately deviate from said plan as he developed his script.

    In an interview with the French publication Le Magazine GEEK , Daisy Ridley was asked about whether or not Rey’s backstory had been decided before The Force Awakens wrapped or if it had been resolved with The Last Jedi. Ridley herself didn’t seem to know the answer to that specific question, so she explained what she understood about the overall writing process:

    “Here’s what I think I know. J. J. wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy, but apart from that, every director writes and realizes his film in his own way. Rian Johnson and J. J. Abrams met to discuss all of this, although Episode VIII is still his very own work. I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.”

    One thing that we know was in both Abrams and Johnson’s respective drafts was the idea that Luke Skywalker went into hiding because he was depressed over something that went wrong earlier in his life before Rey would convince him to get back in the fight – as was the case with George Lucas’ original pitch for Episode VII. So presumably, other ideas from the unseen Abrams draft of the script of Episode VIII are in the movie as well, in spite of Ridley’s comment suggesting that Johnson threw everything out, especially considering that he consulted with Abrams about the story itself, and that Abrams later praised the script and stated that he wished he could have directed it.

    But it’s also not a stretch to imagine that the creative process for The Last Jedi ultimately took Johnson in a different direction than expected. The Force Awakens in and of itself underwent a handful of rewrites and the opening sequence was overhauled more than once, so while a general plan may be in place, there’s more than enough room for creators to take some liberties and make a little of it up as things went along. With Abrams back on board with Episode IX, it’s likely that the story elements he thought up for his version of events will be adapted into the story following revisions necessitated by the changes that The Last Jedi brought and the death of Carrie Fisher.

    It will certainly be interesting to see where the story heads after The Last Jedi, considering that the movie – along with the decision to not put Leia in Episode IX – wrapped up a number of plot points and left a number of others in question. There will presumably be a time skip between the latter two movies if they want to tell more stories in this era, which might also help them with the issue of figuring out how to resolve Leia’s story offscreen. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens".
     
  5. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    That’s news. JJ and LK barely had time to rewrite VII after dumping MA. And they said they had ideas they decided might be better for VIII and IX. But they said nothing of outline/treatments/drafts for VIII and IX.

    When RJ took over it was erroneously reported he’d write and direct VIII and IX. Later the story was changed to writing as soon directing VIII and writing the story for IX. Since he writes his own scripts there was hope/speculation he’d write and direct IX. About the time after the teaser trailer he debunked the rumor, saying he had nothing at all to do with IX.
     
  6. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Also Rian himself said that he had basically carte blanche when writing TLJ, and JJ said that he was "shocked" at some of the places that Rian went with it.

    Seems like LF cannot get their story straight in this regard.
     
  7. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    But didn't he say that he loved Rian's story?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  8. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Perhaps, but that's kind of irrelevant to what I was saying.
     
  9. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Different people say different things. It's not like all of those who had made comments knew exactly what was going on. Seeing how very few of them speak for Lucasfilm, I don't see how anyone can claim that Lucasfilm cannot get their story straight.
     
  10. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I don't follow. Abrams fleshed out a story direction for the trilogy. Johnson was given the freedom to change what he liked for his movie. Not seeing a problem.
     
  11. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    There isn't one.
     
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  12. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    There's no plan, that's become obvious. This allows them to attract creative directors...but it runs the risk of these movies feeling too disjointed from one another. Now...it will HELP when they move beyond the sequel trilogy. I fully expect Rian Johnson to produces some quality films since he'll actually be creating the characters and their arcs from the ground up instead of taking the baton from another film maker. It also leaves the poor open for people like Patty Jenkins and Ryan Couglar to come in and play in this lovely sandbox.
     
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  13. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2004
    All the writers/directors have said that there is no 'plan' for the story and that they had/have complete freedom ...... but I strongly suspect that there may be some things that they are NOT allowed to do, and they are bound to keep continuity with the pre-existing films/TV (I'm still not convinced that the books/comics are considered canon ... maybe they're 2nd tier canon). There could be some large plot directives for the ST ... and I think one of them might be that they have to wrap up the Skywalker arc (at least, I hope there is because I DO NOT want SW to be just about the Skywalkers).

    Notice that TFA/TLJ are one continuous story, the action chugging along with few breaks and almost no pockets of time for any exposition/backstory that would bind future writers/directors. Very convenient. Now JJ and Rian MAY have their own private backstories for their own movies, because that always makes the writing go better with the author knowing what everyone's long-term stories are. But until it's immortalized in moving pictures, it's not real. Honestly I think that's the way the OT and PT developed, too. When Lucas did ANH, he knew what the story beyond the movie was. But when the movie became a stupendous hit, the story changed as sequels went from an outline to reality. I think the SW story has always been morphing since the very beginning.

    And I agree that the creative freedom allowed to writer/directors would be a BIG draw for attracting talent to future SW projects. But also, given the number of A-list writer/director firings we've seen, there are clearly limits to what they're allowed to do. Maybe Disney/Lucasfilm just hasn't definitively worked out what those limits are.

    And about development of the Force ..... in ANH Darth Vader declared that "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force". Uuuuuuuuuh, that's a LOT of development potential right there. With the Jedi being rigidly traditional and the Sith focused narrowly on acquiring power and bigger, better planet-boomers, there is a whole lot about the Force that's left out and available for future writer/directors to jump into.
     
  14. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Otherwise, the fired directors wouldn't have been fired.
     
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  15. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Yoda's_Roomate

    Yoda's_Roomate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2000
    I have never understood how Luke's sacrifice is supposed to inspire a galaxy to rise up against the First Order, since there weren't that many people there to witness it. First Order won't talk about it. Are we supposed to believe the few survivors from the Resistance went on a massive PR campaign to disseminate the story of Luke's sacrifice? Theyre headed to the Outer Rim looking for people who will help them. Does everyone they talk to automatically believe them? Its ridiculous.
     
  17. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    How do you know that? Why can't a FO officer or trooper have been so blown away by what he saw that he leaked security footage of it out into the populace? Even apart from that, how do legendary stories such as this ever become widely known & believed by many? They never come neatly presented with hard evidence, yet we can all name dozens of famous legendary tales. Finally, just bcs we see the scene with the kid at the end that doesn't mean Luke's act alone will lead the whole galaxy to "rise up". People are making assumptions & then criticising based on them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  18. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    It's beyond ridiculous. It's utterly absurd. People aren't inspired by a giant military battle blowing up the biggest weapon in the history of the galaxy, but, like three days later, they are inspired by a force hologram playing essentially a Jedi parlor trick on Kylo Ren for a few minutes?

    The pretzels you have to twist your mind into to actually buy that might be fatal.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  19. Yoda's_Roomate

    Yoda's_Roomate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2000
    An FO officer leaking a video of an army he fights for being embarrassed by one guy? Really? When they're trying to make a show of force to conquer the galaxy?
     
  20. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    It would appear as a god-like supernatural occurrence. If a few villagers being shot could inspire Finn to leave the Order I think Luke's deed has the potential to cause others to doubt whether they're on the right side of this fight.
    Oh dear :oops:. So in one sentence you've assumed that given some time after the chaos caused by the Hosnian System incident (just the destruction of the galactic capital!) people were not inspired to act by the SKB destruction. That's dubious assumption no 1. Then you've assumed that the witnesses of Luke's feat would believe he was a hologram. Even though he looked & acted nothing like one & they saw Kylo Ren who was mere inches away engage him in an argument & a sword fight. Finally, no acknowledgement that the "inspiration" we saw in the final scene of the movie may've been a flash-forward to quite a long time after the events of TFA-TLJ. Which raises the probability that all of the blows struck by the Resistance, including the SKB destruction & Luke's miraculous encounter with the FO will all combine to inspire a galaxy wide uprising.

    Not that any of this has anything to do with this thread topic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  21. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Why not? Finn can't be the only guy who has decided that working for the First Order is a crappy job.

    Will there be more defections like that in the next movie? Especially if they're working for Kylo now. I'm sure he won't be the most inspiring leader.


     
  22. JamieH

    JamieH Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    I agree it really doesn't have anything to do with the thread topic--I was just responding to an earlier post. But the idea that no one was inspired by the Starkiller base assault is right in the movie. Leia calls for help and says that absolutely no one will come to help out. If people were inspired by their assault and destruction of the base, wouldn't someone be willing to come help them? I mean, how nutty is it that everyone in the galaxy is just going "Hey thanks for blowing up that Starkiller thing, too bad you are all going to die, so sad, too bad?"

    I'm not trying to make anything up--it was a key plot point in the movie that absolutely no one was willing to help their cause.
     
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  23. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    The movie also made clear that the destruction of the Republic capital system had just occurred. As did the SKB's own destruction. It's a chaotic time. Now that the Resistance has finally escaped they have the chance to spread word of both the SKB victory & Luke's miraculous confrontation. Rallying the support & the uprising they need.
     
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  24. Visivious Drakarn

    Visivious Drakarn Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Yes, I think @Yoda's_Roomate and @JamieH have a point.

    The opening crawl of TLJ says that the First Order has decimated the peaceful Republic, that Snoke deploys his merciless legions to seize the military control of the galaxy and that Leia fights against that raising tyranny. It's established, only in words, mind you, it's not presented on screen, that the galaxy faces yet another hard time and our heroes stand on their own. That's not so unusual for this movie as Abrams and Kasdan decided to ditch the Republic and present us yet another David vs Goliath story packed within yet another desperation and hope themed trilogy.
    The idle, pointless Republic is destroyed in one move in TFA, as well as SKB. Then comes that opening crawl of TLJ, the Resistance escapes and is being chased for the whole movie. Despite their cries for help, nobody comes. Why? To emphasize the desperation or hope? Those are weak themes for SW movies unless they're part of a bigger picture, as they were in the OT.
    Luke's confrontation with Kylo could've been good. Had he really been there, had he saved the band of survivors (not Rey) and had he joined them because the whole fear of Luke by Snoke in TFA would've been fulfilled - he joined the Resistance and possibly turned the tide.
    It's not believable that the galaxy will fight the FO after they hear of Luke's confrontation with Kylo. Who's Luke to them? He may have been a hero, but that was a long time ago. His Jedi academy certainly wasn't on a capital (and familiar to the galaxy), it failed, it turned bad, he may be the one who created Kylo Ren and his yet-to-be-seen Knights of Ren.
     
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  25. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Eventually though, Luke would have had to destroy Ben or vice versa. What then?