THE DICE

was the dice in TPM loaded ? i am telling my freind they were not .he keeps saying they were loaded .i mean if they were loaded then watto would have been mad if it did not land on blue.it would be obivious that qgj used the force .for it to make it land on blue .he would have known the jedi would have used a trick.he just took it as he lost the roll.he acted as if it was fair .if they were loaded and he lost i assume he would have at least made a comment on how could he lose. am i right on this or wrong?

 

I think the dice were loaded. However, Watto couldn't be mad at Qui-Gon for "cheating", since using loaded dice is also cheating. To admit that he knew Qui-Gon had to cheat, he would also have to admit that he was cheating.

We see Qui-Gon slightly wave his hand, which leads me to believe that he used the Force to sway the results.

 

IIRC, those dice had four faces with one color, two faces with the other. Odds were that Watto's color would come up, even if the dice were not weighted.

 

i know jinn used the force .but i guess they were loaded.part of me feels that they were not thoe.how would jinn know they were loaded? i never saw him exam them.did he use the force to feel them?

 

jinn just used the force to make sure they came up his colors, i mean i guess loaded isnt the right word, maybe altered???? oh well

 

yeah but i heard five sides were red .but there is no proof on that am i correct

 

Watto doesn't know QGJ is a jedi, remember?

 

That devilish smile on Watto's face before and the utter agast and anger after are acting points that show us that Watto assumed he would have won.

~ DS5

 

Watto did look seriously angry when he lost. I feel the dice was weighted, too.

 

Indeed. Even though the character Watto is a CGI creation, he still follows normal acting conventions: i.e. one is happy for a reason; one is angry for a reason; etc. Unless GL and his entire staff were just throwing together Watto's reactions from stock emotions with no rhyme or reason, it is reasonable to assume that he was angry for a reason, most likely because he had altered the dice in some way.

~ DS5

 

Here's my view of this.

Qui Gon probably knows that Watto having Anakin was a benefit to him "the boy is good, no doubts there" and "he's a credit to your race". So he already knows that Watto finds Anakin a valuable asset to him.Also that Watto being a big gambler, also goes for the sure thing, since he betted heavily on Sebulba and that Sebulba "always wins".

This is when Qui Gon gets the idea and takes the bet (now taking the bet I think is hardly a Jedi thing but granted Qui Gon is a bit different) and gives Watto two options. Watto being gambler, takes a loaded dice (I think it is rigged because of more of one colour than the other (red against blue).

Sebulba then tries to be smart, chooses the blue for Anakin and Shmi as red. He knows that he'll surely gets the red as its more of a ?sure thing? like Sebulba. He can?t lose really. Qui Gon then does what he felt was right, make sure the blue ends up on top.

It?s a fine line between fighting the odds and making things favourable due to the dubious environment of Tattoine. Qui Gon adjusted, and did what he felt was necessary.

 

Why would Watto use a weighted chance cube? To what outcome? If he were to cheat, it would be to keep Shmi, not Anakin; as a female, Shmi is capable of providing Watto with more slaves by virtue of reproduction. She's a "slave machine" and Watto wouldn't wanna lose her at all. It would be an acceptable loss as Anakin, while handy and stuff as a mechanic, is still young for efficient heavy labor. He can afford to let a little slave, a Fetch-boy, go. It would be a favor to Qui-gon if Watto were to cheat.

So, no, I don't think the chance cube was rigged.

 

Doesn't it make sense that Watto have a weighted cube, because he's a gambler? Why not? Qui Gon is an outlander. Watto probably thought he could trick him.

Shmi being reproductory is interesting, but I think she's still basically finished with her usefulness or close to it. Enough for Watto to agree to sell her just a few years later.

So therefore, I think Anakin is a bigger prize because he's probably more talented and being young can only get stronger. Remember he "can fix anything".

 

We don't really know if she'd be done with reproduction. If she was, Watto would have sold her already.

And I don't doubt Watto would have a weighted Chance Cube, but I doubt he would use it in this instance. From the two slaves, it would be shrewder to give up the boy. As I said, with the mother, he could get more slaves from her and sell them. Watto could find someone to replace Anakin fixing things and racing, it would be cheaper hiring someone to do oddjobs (which is what Anakin was doing, for the most part) rather than buying another slave that would perform the same function as Shmi. It would be like an apple farmer selling the tree instead of the apples.

So, if Watto had a cheaters' Chance Cube and were to cheat, Qui-gon wouldn't have needed to use the Force. He'd have gotten the boy anyway.

 

>>>As I said, with the mother, he could get more slaves from her and sell them

So long as he didn't mind feeding, clothing and paying for the nappies for the first few years of their lives, as well as losing Shmi as a working slave for that time while she is busy looking after them...

(Growing apples and growing babies are, I gather, slightly different in this respect...)

Anakin, on the other hand, has gone through the expensive part of growing, and is now a productive, profitable commodity, with many more years of his working life ahead of him.

 

So long as he didn't mind feeding, clothing and paying for the nappies for the first few years of their lives, as well as losing Shmi as a working slave for that time while she is busy looking after them...

Yes, since he's providing for Shmi and Anakin, he'd provide for any of Shmi's offspring; he's gonnna have to spend money if he expects to make money. And I would assume those would be the expected expenses of owning a sentient being, none the less several.

(Growing apples and growing babies are, I gather, slightly different in this respect...)

Then again, we are talking about a slave owner, so I doubt that matters. To the character, property is property.

Anakin, on the other hand, has gone through the expensive part of growing, and is now a productive, profitable commodity, with many more years of his working life ahead of him.

Yes, but until Anakin can have a baby, Shmi is going to be a profitable commodity as he CAN get more slaves from her.

 

If Shmi was to be for reproduction purposes, Watto would have organized another slave to impregnate. but last 6-7 years nothing of that sort, I guess.

Shmi and Anakin firstly were from a bet that Gardulla lost. I think that could mean, Watto won through betting, not that he was really sold on Shmi. But to me I think Anakin would still be the prize if anything.

 

>>>>Yes, since he's providing for Shmi and Anakin, he'd provide for any of Shmi's offspring; he's gonnna have to spend money if he expects to make money. And I would assume those would be the expected expenses of owning a sentient being, none the less several.

But would you assume that the cost of a slave would exceed the cost of bringing up and educating a baby, plus feeding and clothing the mother while she did it (who would be much less useful as a slave)?

I would be surprised if you could bring up a baby for the cost of a podracer built from scrap...

(Growing apples and growing babies are, I gather, slightly different in this respect...)
>>>>Then again, we are talking about a slave owner, so I doubt that matters. To the character, property is property.

My point was that growing apples doesn't cost much in terms of money, time or effort. (Well, it probably would in Tatooine's ocnditions, but that's beside the point...) People do.

>>>Yes, but until Anakin can have a baby, Shmi is going to be a profitable commodity as he CAN get more slaves from her.

Not without investing first. Why bother investing all that when you can just win one in a bet, or kidnap one?

 

i mean if they were loaded then watto would have been mad if it did not land on blue.it would be obvious that qgj used the force

A loaded die doesn't always land on a particular side; it just has a greater chance. Weighted dice work by having one side heavier than the others, this side is therefore more likely, but not guaranteed, to end up at the bottom of the rolled die. If you over-weight one side you affect how the dice rolls and the defect becomes obvious so there is a fine balancing act between keeping the roll natural looking and increasing the chance of a particular roll.

So it would not be obvious to Watto that Qui-Gon had cheated.

IIRC, those dice had four faces with one colour, two faces with the other. Odds were that Watto's colour would come up, even if the dice were not weighted.
yeah but i heard five sides were red .but there is no proof on that am i correct

You are both wrong the cube had 3 red 3 blue faces. It makes no sense to have a chance cube that doesn't give equal outcomes to the two options. It's obvious the decision is supposed to be 50:50 between Anakin and Shmi.

 

so then they were not loaded (wieghted) it doesn't matter .if they had equal sides. they were not loaded .and QGJ should have not used the force on them .he should have let life take it's NATURAL COURSE and let the out come be the outcome that was MENT to be .for all we know it would have landed on blue. and the reason.why I even started this thread. is cause i was going back and forth with some one on QGJ . i said QGJ is a surpreme jedi master.but i did not like some of his ways .he was very much in tune with the living force,yes .but it gave him some bad habits .maybe him being dooku's padawan also helped.but he used the force as toy.he was not noble in using the force alot .he pulled too many mind tricks he tried to get his way to much with the force.the force is not to used that loosely .like yoda said the force is to be used for KNOWLEDGE and DEFENSE .jinn used it just because he COULD USE IT .while somethngs can be looked at as justifiable. anakin is the chosen one.they were all not the only choice's he had.many jedi would have not done what jinn did. i try to imangine ,mace or yoda in that situation. and see what woudl have happned different .i do not think jinn is weak not at all. i feel jinn is underrated sometimes i actually like him more than i used too.HE IS A POWERFUL JEDI MASTER.i just feel he was not a NOBLE JEDI MASTER.

 

I don't think he played with the Force. His priority was to get the Queen off that sandblasted rock, so he used it as subtly as he could to get to that end. If he was just playing with it, he'd have pulled his saber, done some fancy tricks and just demanded the parts. Simple as that.

With the dice, if he'd just let things go by chance, then he wouldn't get his way with the bet. He asked for them both, then just Anakin, remember? Besides, say he left it to chance and got Shmi. That would not only leave Anakin stranded without his mom, it would also mess up the entire SW. (which might actually have been a good thing for the Jedi, but that's beside the point)

 

it is beside the point .cause star wars is like our world .certain choices have differnt outcomes.his choice's were not the only options a jedi could have done in those sitiuations.i already said from the story point of veiw. he made the right moves.he did everything right beacuse it was SCRIPTED TO GO that way .his was not the only choice's he had .he did what he had to do, yes .but it could have still been handled different. and anakin could have still made it off that rock. i am looking at this from a larger veiw.



also he just wavied his hand in front of boss nass.trying to get his way again.the gungans had no beef with the jedi,they would have let them go.he still tryed to get over by using the force .he wavie's his hand more than any jedi i have ever seen.he was not a "noble" jedi in the truest sense.

 

I think you've hit the nail bang on the head there, effortless_skill.

Virtually every time Qui Gon uses the Force in TPM, he does it in morally dubious circumstances. Theft (mind-tricking Boss Nass into giving him a submarine), attempted theft (trying to force Watto to accept worthless currency), cheating (the dice roll)- all with the honourable intention of acheiving a greater good, but committing a lesser evil to do so.

(And could you imagine a decent Jedi like Yoda using the Force to calm down a panicking Jar Jar, and overdoing it and sending him to sleep?)

I think the fact that a Force-manipulated cheat on the dice roll is what puts the path before Anakin- the path that leads to the Dark Side- is no coincidence.

 

exactly.nice post i like how you wrote it. his future did not start of natural.it was made .his future was a made one.

 

But would you assume that the cost of a slave would exceed the cost of bringing up and educating a baby, plus feeding and clothing the mother while she did it (who would be much less useful as a slave)?

I would be surprised if you could bring up a baby for the cost of a podracer built from scrap...

My point was that growing apples doesn't cost much in terms of money, time or effort. (Well, it probably would in Tatooine's ocnditions, but that's beside the point...) People do.[/blockquote][/b]

With Watto as the slave owner I would assume those sorts of things would be his decision when and by who Shmi shall be impregnated, unless the midichorians decide to visit Shmi again. So if it's planned and not an accident, Watto would be prepared for another child.

Not without investing first. Why bother investing all that when you can just win one in a bet, or kidnap one?

True. No investment in theft.