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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The Draft: Should it be brought back?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KnightWriter, Apr 25, 2004.

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  1. Son-Of-Suns

    Son-Of-Suns Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2000
    Can you say without a doubt those drafted in previous wars actually fought for their country? A good majority of soldiers that come back from war admit that they didn't fight for their country, but for each other.

    And like that...he's gone.
     
  2. Gonk

    Gonk Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    Here's a question: with Iraq at its current rate, how long can the armed forces realistically continue the Iraq operation without being forced to resort to a draft? Recruiting is slightly down, but I'm not sure by how much. Considering current attrition rates vs. new blood, at what point would a draft be, if ever, necessary?

    If there is a draft, be sure that it won't come before the election. And be sure a lot of people will be VERY pissed off.
     
  3. Son-Of-Suns

    Son-Of-Suns Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2000
    It probably would not be necessary for a long time. This war doesn't warrant a draft and I can't see any other war warranting one either, unless it was on a global scale (and I'm talking about a war effecting everyone).

    And like that...he's gone.
     
  4. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Well, like this article indicates, a couple of months ago, the Army was exceeding its re-enlistment rates.

    HERE

    The original article I posted also indicated that some services had to actually turn new people away for certain jobs because the slots were full.

    Also like the article mentions, military enlistment isn't a simple aspect to predict.

    However, since people who join the military do so knowing that they may be sent to combat, Iraq would deter very few people who would join anyway.
     
  5. Gonk

    Gonk Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    The original article I posted also indicated that some services had to actually turn new people away for certain jobs because the slots were full.

    Well that wasn't really my question. I wasn't interested in the rise or fall of elistment rates. I'm interested in, elistment keeping constant, how long the US military can go on without resorting to a draft, or how much worse Iraq has to get within what time period before the US would have to resort to one. We keep hearing reports of units stretched to thier limit and using stop-loss, so there has to be some sort of strain.

    So first of all, we have to identify what the rates are. Is the rate of casualties in Iraq exceeding the rates of new recruits (which for the sake of my question we can keep constant) minus those leaving the military? In the relatively year and a half we the Iraq conflict has cost about 5,000 casualties before factoring in half of August's total for wounded-not reutned to duty (so it may be something more like 5,500). Based on troop rotations, is will casualty figures like this even require recruiting drives to go up or can the US indefinately sustain this war in manpower, if not in cost (since everyone can agree the US can't sustain it in cost. Those nifty military vehicles cost a pretty penny).
     
  6. DarthLazious

    DarthLazious Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Not for a very very long time.
     
  7. Gonk

    Gonk Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    But essentially that's still a yes. Meaning the rate of attriction in Iraq is greater, no matter how small, is still higher than the rate of new blood coming into the Marines and Army? (Air and Navy don't count in this assessment, since they don't occupy land).
     
  8. Gonk

    Gonk Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    For instance, let's take mr44s number written at the beginning of the thread:

    2.3 million troops. When we combine Marines and Army and subtract Navy and Air force, we're left with:

    1,302,300 available for service.

    Now we take that number and begin subtracting for other commitments around the world. I'm not sure what those are at the moment, but the number could start whittling down pretty fast.
     
  9. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    It may be that the employment picture for young Americans is still bleak enough that even volunteering for wartime military service is still more enticing than long-term unemployment.

    If the Iraq war were happening in the context of a booming economy and significant job growth, I'm convinced the recruitment numbers would be a lot worse.

    But a jobless recovery makes the Iraq war that much more viable in terms of sustainability of troop numbers.
     
  10. Rogue9-Horn

    Rogue9-Horn Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2004
    NO, no draft, 2. There is no need for a draft, we can keep people in Iraw without a draft, there are so many people in the USAF right now that they are kickin' people into the army!

    PRESIDENT BUSH RULES!!!!!!!
     
  11. Ben_Skywalker

    Ben_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2001
    that was deep...
     
  12. Master_SweetPea

    Master_SweetPea Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2002
    "But a jobless recovery makes the Iraq war that much more viable in terms of sustainability of troop numbers"

    Except that things aren't really that bad.

    either way the draft is a terrible idea.
    I would like to see the selective service abolished.
     
  13. AnakinsFinalTurn

    AnakinsFinalTurn Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 28, 2004
    i dont know crap abought politics but i say no to another draft. theres already enough blood shed we dont need people my age (19) or younger to fight in a war. i dont aprove of war period. i agree on volentearing but drafting people into it is just gona make matters worse imv.
     
  14. Dev_Binks

    Dev_Binks Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2003
    One of the large problems people used to have with the draft was because you could buy yourself a free ticket, or you could pay somebody to go in for you. Now though they've fixed that you can't pay your way out, you have to serve, you can't get out by being in college.

    And from my point of view the draft would only hurt our forces. Right now everyone is a volunteer, meaning they want to be in the military. Which naturally means they'll try harder than those who are forced into the military.

    It doesn't really matter to me though because I plan on going into the military, whether through the USAFA or through elistment. Though if through the Academy I wouldn't want to have to deal with draftees that wouldn't listen to my orders.
     
  15. Master_SweetPea

    Master_SweetPea Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Dev_Binks you're going to have to deal with that anyways...
    so you write them up, and get them busted down.

    A draft would be a terrible idea.
     
  16. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Jabba said...It may be that the employment picture for young Americans is still bleak enough that even volunteering for wartime military service is still more enticing than long-term unemployment


    What are you talking about? 5.4% unemployment is excellent regardless how you spin it, and I've heard all the spins.

    You had me at hello..
     
  17. TheForgottenJedi

    TheForgottenJedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Why would the U.S. need a draft?
    If their losing that many troops over in the Middle East, over 1,000 Americans alone now, then I pray that the guys in charge will re-think the reason their there and maybe realize when to leave. [face_plain]

    Was there a draft during 91?
     
  18. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    The last year the US military had a draft was 1973, when it switched to an all-volunteer force.
     
  19. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    We've lost more troops during peace-time training. The casualty count is incredably low,and God bless thier families.
     
  20. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    For comparison, yearly traffic deaths in the UK alone hover around the 3,000 mark.

    In fact, 5,000 people are killed in the UK every year by "deadly falls," a figure which represents 5x the allied fatalities in Iraq.

    To be safe, maybe no building in the UK should be built more than a story tall?

    TABLE

    Now, the above is neither here nor there, but it does illustrate some concept of scale.
     
  21. Ulkesh2

    Ulkesh2 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Oh they can try to bring back the draft. The moment they do I'll burn my draft card. I'll never fight in Bush's war. Besides I'd rather LIVE for this country than die for it!
     
  22. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN

    GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2004
    My opinion on this is that not all people are meant to be soldiers. I am not fit enough to go through boot camp and wouldn't be that great as a soldier. Plus this puts them at a more likely rate to be killed People do not derserve to fight who either don't want to or aren't physiclly able to.
     
  23. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Please leave, Mr. Normandy.
     
  24. Albert_Normandy

    Albert_Normandy Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Do I offend you?
     
  25. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Yes, you offend my intelligence and decency by stooping to racism in this debate.

    Now, please knock it off or leave.

     
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