The Draft: Should it be brought back?

Of all the wicked things governments do, conscription is one of the worst.

It is slavery. At least the slaves on the sugar plantations weren't put in the middle of a war zone, unlike conscripts.

Conscription says, "The government owns you." Reality says, "You own yourself."

This is for all those who ever face being drafted.

 

I would not support it, mainly for the reasons that it would be brought around for, to support the war. I don't support the war at all, and while I support the troops, war goes against everything that I believe in.

However, I think that a short period of mandatory military service would be good for the country, because if you think about it, what's the #1 killer now? Obesity, last I read. That would certainly bring about some changes in the health of some people, which is probably needed in this country.

 

Then how about making military training a mandatory part of collegiate education? That way, there would be no service obligations, no need for a draft at all, and the militia would be a more effective deterrent to potential invaders than ever before.

 

That would never happen, but you'd see a radical drop in college attendance if it did.

 

Iraq is not Vietnam, people, get it out of your head. Not everything you see on CNN is through a clear lens. The media is slanted completely to the Left, amd portrays the US in Iraq as if they were about to get booted out of the country.

Get a grip on yourselves, the United States has the most powerful army in the history of mankind and we're worried about the "insurgents" in Fallujah?!

It's amazing, CNN slaps a name, insurgents, on these roaming bands of terrorists and all of a sudden, the US is losing this war!

The US lost 58,000 soldiers in Vietnam, we've lost 740 in Iraq. That's 740 too many, but think about it. We could fight a war in Iraq at this pace and only reach Vitnem's causualties in 78 years. 78 years. Iraq is Vietnam? You're dreaming.

The draft is not needed and there is no reason to reimplement it.

 

I think somebody needs to learn that war is fought for political reasons and it can be lost for political reasons.

In that way, the Vietnam War can be compared to the War in Iraq.

 

That statement smacks of the need for ellaboration.

 

Basically, I am saying that wars are not won on the basis of kill ratios, as you seemed to be claiming in your previous post.

Right now we are losing the political war in Iraq. There is no security, Iraqis see Fallujah under seige, and Americans torturing prisoners. We do not have control, either politically or physically, over the situation in Iraq.

 

You're right, wars are not won or lost based on the amount of people that die. But all the things that you said still don't make Iraq into Vietnam.

 

Of course. For Iraq to be Vietnam, we would have to have communists and rice paddies, along with a host of other miscellanous features. Instead we have deserts and Beadoin, not quite the same thing.

However, Iraq and Vietnam are comparable in that we are botching the ultimate objective despite overwhelming military force.

 

We've been in Iraq for about a year, how can you determine whether things are botched?

EDIT- I was reading a post of yours. I was happy to see that you think the UN is BS. Amen.

 

Perhaps the fact that more U.S. servicemen died last month than during period from the crossing into Iraq to the capture of Baghdad.

Perhaps the fact that our goal of establishing Iraq as a democracy is seriously in doubt.

Perhaps the fact that there are just as many if not more terrorists in Iraq now than there were before the war.

Besides, I said botching, as in the state of being botched, not botched, as in already failed.

 

Considering that the polls taken among the ordinary Iraqis have actually shown a sliding to them hating us (being the US), and that we're supposed to be on "a crusade to bring democracy" (an oxymoron) to the place, it seems a qualified failure in the making.

Unless you count Sunnis and Shias uniting.

The only solution I can think of is to sit tight and improve our relations and conduct with the Iraqis (since withdrawal is obviously a no-go)

And we'll probably have to scratch the military bases.

 

You wouldn't happen to have a link to these polls you just mentioned?

Because, again, all the latest public polls seem to indicate otherwise:

HERE

HERE

HERE

Of course, some are older than others, and reflect differing views, but I would like to see the complete change represented by the poll you are quoting.

ANd none of these polls refelect a situation where we would need to reinstate the draft.

 

You better hope so, maybe it's just the congressman on the right and the liberal journalists on the left salivating at the talk of the new draft.

 

Pelranius, scratching the bases in Iraq: Don't think so.

We are building bases in Iraq and will build more. That's what our major military policy is, to base troops overseas in garrisons. We're the new foreign legion.

 

That's what our major military policy is, to base troops overseas in garrisons.

Disgusting.

 

Moving on up.

 

Well some people would just head up to Canada and say there human rights where being violated. This isn't the 60's. People wouldn't just roll over and accept this. Can you imagine the uproar if they made a draft sending people to Iraq. After all we have seen over there.

I think some would rather go to jail than go and fight for a cause they felt was murky. Especially when they know there life was on the line.

 

I think some would rather go to jail than go and fight for a cause they felt was murky.

Pretty much...I'd rather rot in a jail cell than rot on a battlefield because Dubya's got his panties in a twist.

 

As a 16 year old, let me just say NOOOOOOOOOO! Me and millions of other teens are strongly against this. And were the ones whos opinion should matter on this.

 

No, I do not think that the draft should be brought back.

My class is mostly pacifistic. The only thing they do that is remotely violent is first-person shooter games, which, in my opinion, train sharpshooters. I cannot see any of them as soldiers.

If you need structure, join the military. But don't complain when you can't do just anything you want to do. My grandpa was in the navy during WWII, and he's told me that your life does not belong to you while you are part of the military. He wasn't drafted, I think, but I'm sure the feeling was the same whether you're a draftee or an enlistee.

I support the troops, but I'm still undecided on if I support the reasons I've seen for being in this conflict.

 

See, all these people go to prove my point: If there was mandatory service, we would be in less wars.

 

That may be so, and it may be a good thing. But could it also make the US too timid (think Kosovo)?

Like I said far, far above, complicated issue.

 

This is a post I made to start a thread, right before this thread was upped (oops!). I'm reposting it here:


As a lifelong Star Wars fan, I would honestly feel that my life would be incomplete if I never got to see the birth of Darth Vader on the big screen. There is something now in motion that could possibly jeopardize that, along with our very way of life in the U.S. of A.

When you do a Google search on the topic, there is an alarming amount of evidence that suggests the Bush Administration, along with several members of Congress (mostly Republican, but some Democrats as well) is very quietly preparing to reinstate the military draft. Officially, the White House says that a draft "is not necessary or being thought of at this time". They do NOT categorically rule out the possibly for the future or provide any hint as to how long "at this time" may last. They also have a very good reason to keep quiet about it, as discussion of a hot button issue so close to the election would most likely be political suicide. As one observer put it, "It's very unlikey a presidential candidate would ever seriously propose a draft. However, an incumbent, safely elected to a second term, might be another story".

In fact, the evidence suggests that the Bush administration plans to push for reinstatement of the draft almost as soon as the November elections are over. The first conscripts would be sent overseas in late spring/early summer 2005....a very important date for us Star Wars fans. That's right, folks. THIS TIME NEXT YEAR, whether you want to or not, you could be standing in a desert instead of in line for Episode III.

This will not be our father's draft, either. The current bills, being quietly floated in Congress as we speak, call for all US citizens ages 18-26, male AND female, to serve 2 years of mandatory service. There would be no student deferrments this time around, and concientous objector status would be even harder to attain than before, so even those who hold religious beliefs opposing all war could end up on the front lines.

It comes down to this.....we have seen what Bush is willing to do in a first term in office. Do we REALLY want to see what he may do when he no longer has to worry about reelection? The return of the draft is the next logical step in the creation of Bush's imperial war machine, and one he would not dare take, or even hint at, until he's safely in for another four years. He would much rather the election be decided on issues such as gay marriage and tax cuts. Bush might give you a tax cut, all right, but what he's not mentioning right now is that he plans to take your child in exchange.

And even if you happen to support the war in Iraq, and think that more troops might help us expediate the cleanup process, rest assured that this is NOT the adminstation's only plan. Consider this....right now, the American military makes do with about 2 and a half million volunteer soldiers, stretched to the breaking point across more than 160 countries. Now consider that almost 4 million Americans turn 18 each year. Such a large pool of cheap slave warriors would give the Bush administration a "blank check" to wage pre-emptive war on, and occupy, as many countries as it deemed neccessary.

I would urge everyone, if you feel as strongly about this as I do, to write a letter to your congressmen, explaining in no uncertain terms that you will not be giving your vote to any candidate who supports the draft. If you are ever in a position to do so, such as at a campaign speech with a question-and-answer session, ask them point blank where they stand on the subject. Remember, even if Bush is re-elected, it still requires an act of Congress to reinstate the draft. And they CAN lose their jobs later on if they betray our trust. Also, don't assume that if your representative happens to be a Democrat that they don't support the draft.....several do.

And lastly, if anyone happens to be fortunate enough to attend a presidential debate, please please PLEASE do anything in your power to get this top