ST Lightsaber Combat in the ST

Agreed, there is no comparison between the choreography in the OT and the PT in terms of weightless acrobatics. I like that the duel in TFA was a bit more raw, the anger and energy of it comes through without the need for over the top stunts, I don't think that would have fit here.

 

If the ROTS novelization was adapted from the actual script, I really don't know why they changed the way the duel played out. At least it showed Sidious using actual deception and psychological warfare whereas in the movie, he just corkscrews into the blades of four Jedi masters (which is stupid).

 

This is what happens when you write "and they fight" in a screenplay...

 

I meant to put a winky face In there. A cool example is in Lord of the rings. They wrote 'they go down some stairs' and then in the finished film is that whole sequence with it crashing down and such. I don't like that bit as it looks poop but I realise I made myself look a bit I knowledgable about how a screenplay is written. Oops.

 

My interpretation of what you are saying would be that whereas in the OT the 3 combatants we have: Obi-Wan, Vader and Luke are all main characters (even though Obi-Wan's time is short in ANH he still comes off as a main character type which is affirmed by the PT) that investment is made in all sides of the duel as in TFA with Rey and Kylo Ren.

In the PT the only duels that are really like that is Obi-Wan vs Vader and Sidious vs Yoda. In the other duels that kind of dual investment in the duel is simply not the same because Maul, Dooku and Grievous as the enemy are not at the level (nor were they meant to be) as Vader. The story simply does not flow through the same way.

Well there is flipping, jumping, twirling etc so it's all part of the mix and of course dependent on the combatants and the environment they are in.

If they do for you then they do. I don't have a problem at all with them in a world where the Force exists which is all about defying logic and gravity. It was in TESB first that Vader uses the Force to defy logic and gravity and hurls the room at Luke. Then Luke does the same when he jumps to get away from Vader.

To me that would be like having a problem with TESB in the first place with Yoda lifting the X-Wing. The idea that you can lift or push other objects but not yourself doesn't work. If anything the argument is that it's never happened anywhere near enough.

 

^ that post right there shows why thinking of Star Wars in terms of cold logic and with precedents of X force power being used therefore it can be used in Y situation, shows less understanding of what makes it work than simply watching. To quote Jedi teachings; feel, don't think. At least not always.

 

Do not overthink Star Wars.... I love the Palpatine "corkscrew" move....even if it makes no sense

 

Not strictly in my experience. It changes from writer to writer. Yes, action scenes do change a lot and it's better to capture the emotion of a fight rather than block them out, but it's very common to write out the gist of the narrative. Purely "and they fight" is something most writers wouldn't get away with. There is a balance to be struck between "and they fight" and choreographing every beat. If you check out the TFA script, the Finn vs TR8R fight is pretty much "they battle". The final duel is much more descriptive.

 

I'm trying to remember Abrams commentary on the duel from memory. I'll have to paraphrase. Essentially it's "None of these people have any advanced training or experience in this type of duel or any choreographed style. Ren's saber blade is unstable, like himself, unfinished...Kylo Ren just wants to make Finn hurt."

 

I like it a lot, but i still like ROTS,TPM, TESB and ROTJ duels more. It's really solid, though i wish it'll get a little more choreographed with Luke in ep 8.

 

A whole planet...that was about to be destroyed. Running and hiding would have done nothing for Finn except ensure his death.

 

It was my least favorite. I didn't understand how a complete neophyte like Rey could best a trained Kylo Ren. I don't think the Force is enough to do it. To me, it just seemed hashed together.

 

As I understand it, the big factor was that Kylo's injuries leveled the playing field enough, esp. since Rey isn't a neophyte at hand to hand combat and did get the force boost at the end (which the canonical story book of the film describes as her seeing what he was going to do before it happened). I accepted it as a special circumstances win (and one Rey pulls off by the skin of her teeth, if you watch closely), but I can get that not everything is going to be acceptable to everyone.

 

It was a good duel. Soon kylo is going to be the new darth vader!!

 

Rey's final assault on Kylo is very Return Of The Jedi. No grace or art. Just pure regression.

 

Thank you. That makes it make a little more sense for me.

 

That was supposed to be aggression. But maybe regression works too.

We shall see.

 

Glad you found it useful.

 

It sure does!

 

He also struggled mightily and took a blow dueling against a pacifist janitor stormtrooper with zero lightsaber training. That part really didn't make any sense to me. For my money, the greatest duel in a Star Wars movie still belongs to The Phantom Menace, one it's only great merits as a film(imo). It will take a lot to top that one for me, but I will always stay open minded going into the future films!

 

"Pacifist" -

 

A trained Kylo Ren? Oh I know exactly what you mean.

 

I'm assuming he was trained by Luke, and then Snoke. Perhaps I missed something.