ST The Duel

I think there's more than enough material out there to justify a thread devoted to the duel. There has been a lot of good discussion in The New Rumor Depository. So feel free to carry it over to this thread.

I'll kick things off by reposting this from the other thread:

So despite all MSW's good work, this story still gives me pause. They nailed the duel/Falcon concept art (with the exception that they said both combatants were male--but gender is ambiguous in the pic. See below). This was in June.



So if that pic is legit, is there reason do doubt the description given for the second pic of an older Jedi facing off with a Sith? I understand that this could be an unused idea, but still...

http://www.starwars7news.com/2014/06/rumor-possible-star-wars-episode-7.html

 

so Kylo Ren can't beat 1 soldier untrained with a lightsaber and a girl who's rusty???
the duel ends in a draw, so it's possible he was gaining the upper hand before the mountain gave way or maybe not.

 

Figured I would post this here as well.



In regards to the duel, we also need to consider we have very little context. If all we had were basic beats of Luke's first encounter with Vader we could easily think that they were weakening Vader just to protect the protagonist of the story. The context makes Lukw's survival more understandable along with his willingness to take major risks.

Potential contexts could include
1. Kylo has no formal training. He may be trying to prove himself to Uber. This could be a film of a cold war between Uber and Luke that only really ramps up in VIII. It is very possibly Kylo may be a wannabe. (Not my favorite context but possible)
2. Kylo could be playing a long game. Trained under Uber and already scouting talent for an apprentice to take him down. Some rumors suggest their relationship may be on thin ice in this movie. Kylo could feasibly be testing Rey and Finn to see if either might have genuine potential to work with. In the process the duel is interrupted with the mountain falling.

3. Emotionally attachment to Rey. We know little of their connection. If Finn can briefly hold out with Rey staying in between them it is possible there could be some hesitancy there.

What I am saying is we actually no very little. Perhaps it is time to start pretending the we do considering I managed to make up three potential contexts to flesh the scene out, and I am not a writer.

 

yeah, still sounds very weak to establish a real threat for the ST, who could stand up to a Darth Vader. Darth Maul was more a threat than this wannabe.

 

Although it's been rumored that the duel ends in a draw, I'd venture that Ren does indeed have the upper hand for most of this confrontation. As nalkwan pointed out elsewhere, there wouldn't be much dramatic tension if the good guys were evenly matched with the villain so early in the trilogy.

 

Unless again there is further context. Luke should have been crushed by Vader, but context to the situation made it more understandable.

 

In case this wannabe beats and kills Luke in VIII, it would be laughable.

 

I just want to see a great duel. Exciting and full of emotions.

 

with a lose of a limb or two.

 

By the way, what are the 'SEVEN' doing in this movie except attacking the academy in the flashback? They are not involved in any of the duels???

 

Well the seven are actually revealed to the be the seven remaining Keebler elves who live in the trees in the climax. They are throwing cookies at Rey and Finn while they fight Kylo.

 

Maybe they throw the cookies from the mountain. Their weight causing it to collapse in this duel scene.

 

Well, to be fair, in ESB Luke was crushed by Vader. Even with context, it was obvious that Luke was outclassed, although still a surprisingly capable opponent.

 

Well, they had to get Warwick Davis in this movie somehow...

 

Excellent topic. You might edit and put all photos of the arts on the duel.

 

However, if we just had the same tiny pieces of info for that duel as we do for this one we may not have thought that. On paper it could have sounded much like a draw. the heroes may survive, but our undead in g of what a draw means could be flawed so I still think my comparison stands. We know Luke got owned because we have seen the full duel and l context involved.

 

Rey and Finn do not appear to be faring especially well here, IMO.

 

I think Ren will have the upper hand through most of the duel. Then "by the will of the force" the protagonists are saved. If Ren is scouting out new talent he may also be playing with them.

 

I wonder if they're going to make Kylo Ren the Maul/Tarkin of this trilogy, where he is an introductory villain that the hero kills in the first episode. I always thought that the "rhyming" character would be the Stormtrooper commander, but I'm starting to think it might be Kylo.

 

We have to factor motive and psychology into these duals since that's usually an element of SW duals. It's not always about who is faster and stronger. Kylo Ren may be stringing Ray along in order to convince her to join him or his cause. Who knows. Or Rey is trying to break through the darkside and find the brother/friend she once knew.

So again, video game style analysis here isn't very helpful.

 

Kylo clearly has the high ground and possibly experience. Amazing these two escape.

 

but isn't SW a video game.

 

Agreed. But once again, at such an early point in the overall story, complex psychological motivations and character dynamics may not have yet been developed. We don't even know for sure if Ren and Rey know each other. By the time Luke and Vader first confront each other, for example, there has been plenty of opportunity (1.75 films) to develop context.

 

yeah and in these 2 concept arts Kylo is displayed bigger than the 2 other opponents and this displays superior abilities. So a draw (also with the help of the collapsing mountain) makes no sense at all.