The Editting discussion

3. A music composition/editing point: When Padme breaks off the kiss on the balcony the soaring love theme suddenly cuts off like the stylus being lifted off an old record.

Well, it was meant to be that way. It's the same with the Han/Leia kiss in ESB, but nobody complained about that because ESB = perfect.

 

"Ok yodaschum, first of all, EVERY PLANET has different timing."

...Right, so ten minutes on Kamino = six hours on Naboo? Yet Obi and Yoda can still converse in real time?

Or did Obi just spend all night checking every landing platform in the city until he found the right one, while Jango stood around waiting for him to show up?

Or was it just a sloppy edit?

 

Right, so ten minutes on Kamino = six hours on Naboo? Yet Obi and Yoda can still converse in real time?

So Naboo and Kamino have the same time and every thing? Two different planets. Going around a star at different raites.

And yes Obi and Yoda can still have a converse in real time. Remember they are using things that can send snigles to far off places really fast.

 

ani, the rate at which a planet moves around its sun doesn't affect the speed at which time passes. A second on Earth is the same amount of time as a second on Pluto; Pluto just takes a larger number of seconds to complete its orbit.

Therefore, the way the scenes are cut together, the amount of time it takes for Obi to go from one landing platform to another is the amount of time it takes for Anakin to get a full night's sleep.

 

the rate at which a planet moves around its sun doesn't affect the speed at which time passes. A second on Earth is the same amount of time as a second on Pluto; Pluto just takes a larger number of seconds to complete its orbit.

The thing is is that it's not second earth.

Also we don't know what kind of star Kamino. We don't know when it's night and day is. So to say it has the same day as Naboo well all you basing that on is earth. nether planet is earth so we shoudl not even base it on earth time. Each planet as there own set of day's and hours.

 

ani, the point still stands that the length of day and night can change on a planet depending on its system specs. However, real time remains a constant and inpenetratable dimension. (Assuming you don't believe we can travel at light speed)

 

ani, the point still stands that the length of day and night can change on a planet depending on its system specs. However, real time remains a constant and inpenetratable dimension. (Assuming you don't believe we can travel at light speed)

Ok this is Star Wars. It has a planet with two suns. If we go by RL then really people should not be able to even live on a planet with two suns. And you are right about one thing you can have real time, depending on the planet. And we as humans can't at this point in time travel at the speed of light. Not only that but knwo one real knows if it is possiable.

 

there were quite a few flaws in editing the sabre duel between anakin and dooku. i'm pretty sure y'all noticed them. it's my only pet peeve about this movie. the editors in the cutting room didn't even put a mild effort into covering them up. ah well.

cheers!

 

ani, you don't seem to understand the concept of "real time."

Listen: The flow of time remains constant, regardless of which planet you're on. If two twins were separated at birth, spent the equivalent of fifty Earth years on separate planets, and then met up again, their ages would still be identical. It makes no difference which planet they live on; they age at the same rate, because time passes at the same rate.

Now, if the flow of time were different from planet to planet (which it isn't), their communications would be scrambled at best; whichever twin lived on the "faster" planet would seem to talk at warp speed to the "slower" planet's inhabitant, who would then take much longer than normal to respond. Since Obi and Yoda converse at a normal rate, we can see that this isn't the case, nor is it ever implied to be.

Do you understand now?

 

LOL

The body doesn't age every time the sun sets...


anyways, I spot little things that irk me all the times in movies but I try not to let it detract from the experience. Thats Me two shillings.

 

Isn't it the case that Anakin was dreaming, his sleep was interrupted and when he got up, he woke Padme? So, the scenes could have been concurrent with the Kamino stuff, it just seems like anakin got a full night's sleep because when he was dreaming, the curtains were closed, as are most peoples when they go to bed, so the rising sun wasn't shining on him?

 

I'd like to know what the two film makers, AdamBertocci and Rebelscumb make of this edit so we can have a proffesional opinion on this. Quite frankly I think its the worst edit I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie. I don't buy the "Every planet has a different timing" theory. If thats the case, then why when Alderan blows up does Kenobi sense it immediately? Wouldn't it take 6 hours for him to get the signal? All this is too much like Star Trek.

 

To me, cutting from Obi-Wan, to the nightmare scene, to Obi-Wan fighting Jango, and back to Anakin and Padme the next morning would have been too many cuts, and could have been confusing. I don't think the nightmare scene should have been separated from the "next morning" scene, especially not by a scene as long as the Obi vs. Jango scene is. It would seem to interrupt the flow of things.

 

Geist: "ani, you don't seem to understand the concept of "real time." - "

I very much agree with you.

I also feel there are several users who still need to get to grips with the concept of editing. The issue regarding the passing of time on two seperate planets falls into the domain of continuity, not editing.

 

I very much agree with you.

I also feel there are several users who still need to get to grips with the concept of editing. The issue regarding the passing of time on two seperate planets falls into the domain of continuity, not editing.

How nice

 

To me, cutting from Obi-Wan, to the nightmare scene, to Obi-Wan fighting Jango, and back to Anakin and Padme the next morning would have been too many cuts, and could have been confusing.

Maybe; so why not just go straight from Obi getting his orders to apprehend Jango to Obi fighting Jango, then, when Obi gets a reasonable break in the action, cut back to Naboo?

 

thats way better Geist.

SOmething else I noticed in the asteroid battle (which is a scene I ususally skip over) is that slave 1 exits the tunnel twice. We see from inside the tunnel the ship clearly exits the stone tunnel, then we cut to the exterior and we see it exit again.

 

LOL!! Is that true? Thats criminal.

 

Thats a horrid cut Geist, that doesnt make any sense.
The Whole point of the intercuttiing from the yoda to the nightmare is to show you what the jedi, obi wan are going through. They are going through a nightmare, the darkside is clouding there vision. And when it from anakin to the slave 1 where its RAINING, we can feel what anakin is feeling, he feels stormy and his mind is clouded. And it gives a rhythem that obi wan and anakin are both trying to find someone.
And Rebel Scumb dont give me this kerd that im reading way into this stuff because im not, its cleary what lucas was trying to potray, you have to ask your self WHY did lucas cut there.
And your comment about the stormtooper hitting his head, thats just plain ignorance man.

 

"Thats a horrid cut Geist, that doesnt make any sense.
The Whole point of the intercuttiing from the yoda to the nightmare is to show you what the jedi, obi wan are going through. They are going through a nightmare, the darkside is clouding there vision. And when it from anakin to the slave 1 where its RAINING, we can feel what anakin is feeling, he feels stormy and his mind is clouded."

I have never heard anyone but you say this is the case, not even GL. You can get what ever you want from this scene but this is simply you own interpretation and it has no basis in anything. In any event I'll take solid pacing and logical cutting over vague symbolisms which in the long run are entirely unimportant to the saga as a whole, or AOTC as a finished film.

"And Rebel Scumb dont give me this kerd that im reading way into this stuff because im not, its cleary what lucas was trying to potray"

Based on what? Do you have any quotes to back that up? Or are you the one person who truly understands GLs vision. Symbolisms are great and all, but they dont make or break a movie, solid story telling does. The actual story not the metaphorical one thats open to interpretation.

And if that is what GL was going for then he failed, because only you got it. Out of millions of people he was only able to reach you specifically. Doesn't that say something.

"you have to ask your self WHY did lucas cut there. And your comment about the stormtooper hitting his head, thats just plain ignorance man."

I did a thread a while back about how Kaminio was a symbolism for cancer, and tumours, and I gave a very detailed explanation as to why this fit on several levels and gave several examples at to how the symbolism worked on a couple levels.

But you know what? Its all malarky. Its jsut something I observed, it hardly makes it the reason why GL made kaminio the way he did, I interpreted it that way, but I'm not so arrogant to believe that I'm the one brillian fan who figured it out. As an audience member we all bring things to the table with us, which lead to our interpretations of things. Anything as diversely visual as a SW film is going to be rife with potentially symbolic things, it doesn't mean that they are the intention of the artist.

You're calling me ignorant, yet you are the one proposing that this is the only possible way to cut this sequence of scenes together to good effect, that this foggy symbolism of the storm is some how the lynch pin of what holds this act of the movie together.

 

You beat me to it, RS. Well done.

I'd like to add that the rain goes on both before and after the cutaway to Anakin, and continues through the entire Kamino sequence. Since it runs constantly, and begins before the issue of the Jedi's diminishing power is even introduced, one would surmise it has no direct connection with any one character or concept.

 

I dont understand you, they are called intellectual cuts man. Eisenstein created it, its also called montage man.
George didnt say this, so that means its not valid. He didn't say anything about how the shot in the AOTC Duel where anakin saves obi wan, and the 2 lightsabers are clashed at each other is the same shot in return of the jedi where the aprentice saves the master. He doesnt say everything on the audio commentary. He talks about themes in Episode 1 on this tape called Mythology of star wars but he doesnt say anything in the audio commentary of epiosde 1. Just because he doesnt say anything doesnt mean that wasnt what he meant.
Why is that a Vague Symobolism, thats called MONTAGE. Why is it unimportant? I just dont understand you, it is important. Lucas is a Visual Filmaker, the way he uses his colors, his shots, his cutting, the music tells the story beautifully.
Oh my goodness, foggy symbolism, thats what this whole movie is about. You know how much fog and clouds are in this movie.
So your saying that in the beggining when the starship is going through clouds, SCREW THE SYMBOLISM, all that means in the story is its just going to coruscant. This whole scene forshadows the movie.
There are MEANINGS IN MOVIES AND THEMES IN MOVIES!
MOTIFS AND SYMBOLS IN MOVIES AND COLORS IN MOVIES TO TELL THE STORY. Its not just freaking dialouge.
Here's a great scene that tells teh story beautifully, and its done my visuals and colors.
This is the scene in the beggining with palpatine and the jedi.
In this scene, they shoot palpatine by himself and then shoot a shot of everyone else. This really shows that palaptine isnt in SYMBIANCE with them, he is divided between them. And even when they shoot palpatine and the jedi in the same shot, the shot really shows the line between them, the jedi are on the red side and palpatine is on this sky blue side.
He's the dark side, their the light side. And we see the Jedi surrounded by this RED and DARKNESS. The Red really symbolizes the bloodshed that palpatine will create contrasting with the blood the jedi will lose. It's not the bloodshed it will create now, but in evolution, in the end he will bring DARKNESS and BLOODSHED(RED) everywhere. especially the jedi in this shot. And with lucas and mCcallum saying there will be a lot of red in episode 3, the bloodshed and the danger in episode 3 will come to a maximum. Episode 1 had green and blue and a little bit of red, darth maul. Episode 2 has mor ered than episode 1, palpatines room, geonosis, jedi starfighter, fire. I imagine in episode 3, everything will turn red. This was used also in Bonnie and Clyde and Red is a huge color in asian cinema. Sorry for getting off topic.
This shot also shows a door at the end, its closed, The jedi are closed in, they cant escape the bloodshed or the darkness this man will create. And with this slighty high angle on the jedi. The Jedi seem weak, and Palpatine is Towering(later in the post) over them.

Contrasting this shot
[image=http://www.sgtfretsurfer.com/Grilled-Sarlacc/s/i/promo8.jpg]

with this shot
[image=http://www.sgtfretsurfer.com/Grilled-Sarlacc/s/i/palpy.jpg]

We see a huge difference,Palpatines side, we see Palpatine who's like a TOWER(tower right next to him is to tall and it goes off screen, showing his control OVER everyonee), he's wearing BLACK, we see this BEAUTIFUL view of coruscant. This shows that Palpatine has a Great View of his Plan, he's already locked or closed the door on the jedi, this goes the same with padme and the politicians, they are all closed in his plan. His view coudln't be better.

Beautiful Job george of Color, shot structure, set design and costume design to get the point across in a VISUAL manner.

Here's another great scene.

Blue is a motif throughout the whole movie. But the blue can represent different things. In Kamino, the blue and white is very cold and sterile. And the blue in kamino does represent water which symbolizes rebirth, and the clones are always giving life so its appropriate. And the white gives it a society tha

 

Your posts are interesting HPDrummer. I liked your thread on Kurosawa and star wars.

 

Eisenstein's principles don't apply here, as the rain is present everywhere, not just immediately before or after the nightmare. His style was also far more abstract, while George is much more literal.

Now, of course there are basic, elemental connections between certain images and certain emotions, particularly when it comes to color, but you're reading far more deeply and far more specifically than that with the supposed nightmare connection; any interpretation you draw there is strictly your own, even if you have mastered the basics of film vocabulary.

You neeed to find more resources to back up your post.

I'll happily wager that I've studied film longer than you have, but that's not the point here. We're not debating whether or not a film can express more than what's literally there; that's a given. The question at hand is whether or not your interpretation of this particular cut is the "right" one.

 

How am i reading far to deeply, dont take any english classes or film classes because you will slap your head in an oven.
Of course their is Rain in Kamino, and eisenstein is more abstract, but lucas is using a symbollic cut or an intellectual cut.
You have to ask your self why did it cut in the rain, why didnt it cut into the white kamino.
When anakin and padme are in the fireplace scene and its at the end and anakin says"It will destroy us,". It cuts to rain, it doesnt cut to the inside of kamino because that wouldnt make sense. We cut it to Rain because its almost as Anakin is crying inside. His dream women just turned him down, where else would you cut it?